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The Gods "of War"

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
"Gods of War". This is a term often used to described deities such as Odin, Thor, Tyr, and even Freyja. It calls to mind violent beings, constantly in conflict, who have nothing to offer but war and death. Yet for those who know the Gods, this is known not to be true.

The Gods are not "of war," but rather they use their skills to aid in war, either for good or ill. Let us explore this.

Odin - He is a wanderer, a poet. A seeker of wisdom and teller of tales. During the Winter months, he rides the skies, battling and detaining the chaotic forces of death that plague and ravage the Earth. He counsels people of all statures, knows how to cure any ailment or illness, and rewards the honored slain with glory and peace. In regards to war, he counsels leaders on wise actions. He advises for cautious and measured behavior. He guides and teaches shamanic warriors such as Berserkers and Ulfhedinn. He inspires the record of war - our lessons of history - so that we might learn from our mistakes and triumphs. He aids our war, receives some when they fall, but leaves our war to us.

Thor - The defender of Midgard. As he is not the most clever of the Norse Gods, Thor is a prime candidate for honesty and loyalty. He mistrusts most magics, instead relying more on his own strength. He protects our homes, our crops, our communities and our laws. He opposes chaos, and strives to set right the balance. His hammer, Mjolnir, is as much a tool as it is a weapon; it builds as well as destroys. For our wars, we gain his protection against outside harm or forces. By his example, we defend our homes and our communities, and we find our own strengths to use.

Tyr - The embodiment of justice and self-sacrifice. Once the Chieftain of the Aesir, Tyr sacrificed his hand to contain Fenrir - the embodiment of rage - and retain cosmic order. Through his example, we can learn the importance of sacrificing our own comforts or person for the wellbeing of all. We give up our authority when the time comes, and strive for the just treatment of our soldiers, our citizens, and even our prisoners. Rage is imprisoned for justice and order.

Freyja
- The Lady, patron of love, fertility, and magic. Often called the "Queen of Witches", Freyja deals in all things woman. She is the one who introduced Odin to magic, and taught him all she knows. She told him of the Runes hidden in Vanaheim, and set him on his Shamanic quest. She presides over bees, and her essence is in all honey. For our wars, she gifts the fighting spirit of women, and leads the Valkyries to the battlefield to bring the honored dead to Asgard. Their example drives women during war, and provides comfort to the wounded and dying.

While the Gods do certainly fight - the Aesir-Vanir war being one such example - it is certainly not all that they do.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
"Gods of War". This is a term often used to described deities such as Odin, Thor, Tyr, and even Freyja. It calls to mind violent beings, constantly in conflict, who have nothing to offer but war and death. Yet for those who know the Gods, this is known not to be true.

Freyja - The Lady, patron of love, fertility, and magic. Often called the "Queen of Witches", Freyja deals in all things woman. She is the one who introduced Odin to magic, and taught him all she knows. She told him of the Runes hidden in Vanaheim, and set him on his Shamanic quest. She presides over bees, and her essence is in all honey. For our wars, she gifts the fighting spirit of women, and leads the Valkyries to the battlefield to bring the honored dead to Asgard. Their example drives women during war, and provides comfort to the wounded and dying.

While the Gods do certainly fight - the Aesir-Vanir war being one such example - it is certainly not all that they do.

Question: was it not Frigg(a) who sent Odin on his quest for knowledge and taught him about magic? Is there some syncretism between Frigga and Freyja?
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Question: was it not Frigg(a) who sent Odin on his quest for knowledge and taught him about magic? Is there some syncretism between Frigga and Freyja?
There is a lot of confusion regarding that, but no. They are different women. Not only are they of different tribes (Frigga is Aesir, Freyja is Vanir), but they have different parentage. Frigga also has less to do with magic, and more to do with healing, hearth, frithkeeping (frith=community peace and security), marriage and birth. She is, basically, the "Mother Goddess" of the Aesir.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
I would argue that they are Gods of War. I did a post a while back discussing the symbolic differences in what kind of war/conflict they represented based on their weapons of choice. I cannot find it, so I'll try to retype it from memory;

Odin serves a dual purpose(raise your hand if you're surprised). We'll do one then the other;

His use of a spear denotes that he is the God of War on a large, more strategic scale. Why? Because a spear, while useful in one-on-one combat(the true God of War is whatever gives you the most distance between yourself and the enemy after all) only comes into its own when it is used in a group. Combined with a shield(and thus forming a shield-wall) it is brutally effective and hard to counter. Mix that with the average Norseman being both taller and heavier-built than your average Frank or Anglo-Saxon and you have a combination that could rarely be countered except with far superior numbers, and even then, not always.

Then there's the more famous bit. The furious, screaming warrior, the Berserk. I won't spend much time here, except point out that I wonder if this is the natural evolution of the "Furor Teutonicus"?

Tyr is the God of War as single-combat. He uses a sword, a weapon that can be used very effectively in groups but is none the less more associated with combat between two people or at most smaller groups. Swords also have the air of nobility about them, fitting for the God associated with the Law.

Thor is the God of War, but a more "People's War". The war as it touches the common people. His weapon is a hammer, and while war-hammers were expensive...Mjolnir was not always a hammer. In the oldest depictions Mjolnir is an axe. And the axe, for the ancient Norse, was as close as you could get to "People's Weapon". Everyone had an axe, and it was rather trivial to make a War-Axe. You give it a longer handle, that's about it. Fitting for Man's Best Friend.

Freyja is, as stated by @The Ragin Pagan , associated with the Shield-Maiden. She wields no specific weapon, though given her association with the Valkyries and her status as shield-maiden, a spear is likely, though her status as royalty(seeing as how she lives in Asgard) also points potentially to a sword. Not terribly important as she is not meant to represent a type of war so much as a type of warrior.

That's just my take, anyway.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
With respect to Hinduism, this is the Heathenry DIR, not the Hinduism DIR.

What do you mean with that? Is that your philosophy on life?
I regard it more as an observed truth. From our very beginnings, mankind has been at war. There has never once been a recorded period where peace persisted. And even when we are not actively at war, we fight about politics, sports, relationships, etc. Dangers lurk in our world, from the environment to one another. It is inescapable.

Denying it does not work. Internalizing rage makes it worse--the lesson of Fenrir teaches us this. Fighting everything recklessly does not work--the Lokasenna illustrates this quite well. The best course of action - as with all things - is moderation and wisdom.

I would argue that they are Gods of War.
Well, my point was more that, while they are Gods that have relevance to war, they are so much more. Not necessarily that they don't war themselves.

I do really like the rest of your post, though!
 

Cassandra

Active Member
With respect to Hinduism, this is the Heathenry DIR, not the Hinduism DIR.
You do not seem to mind the presence of Satanists. We have less in common with them.

Hinduism is not Paganism but our Indo-Aryan cultures share the same Vedic roots we do not share with Middle Eastern religions. Hinduism helps us understand our ancient Pagan traditions.

I regard it more as an observed truth. From our very beginnings, mankind has been at war. There has never once been a recorded period where peace persisted. And even when we are not actively at war, we fight about politics, sports, relationships, etc. Dangers lurk in our world, from the environment to one another. It is inescapable.

Denying it does not work. Internalizing rage makes it worse--the lesson of Fenrir teaches us this. Fighting everything recklessly does not work--the Lokasenna illustrates this quite well. The best course of action - as with all things - is moderation and wisdom.
I think such thinking is typical for the West and Middle East. But also in Europe there was great difference between aggressiveness of tribes and peoples. Take for instance a people like the Vlachs
"Vlachs have been called the perfect Balkan citizens" because they are able to preserve their culture without resorting to war or politics, violence or dishonesty."

Another Example is the Scandinavians who surely have a very martial history, but these days they are among the most peaceful nations in the world.

It is also telling that in the USA that was never invaded, and is far removed from all conflict zones, and spends more on defense than the rest of the world combined, people are so fearful about national security. What makes the US so paranoid is their own behavior. They find it hard to believe not everyone is as aggressive as them. Aggressive behavior makes people scared, the prime example is criminals.

Luckily research shows that aggression has steadily gone done the past thousands of years. In hunter gatherer societies aggression is low, recent studies suggest it came up with agriculture. The problems associated with bad harvests we can now solve through technology.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
You do not seem to mind the presence of Satanists. We have less in common with them.
I think you misunderstand me. I don't mind who is here - as I understand it, the DIR threads and forums are public. But this is a thread and forum to discuss Heathenry, and the Heathen Gods. Not Hinduism and theirs.

I think such thinking is typical for the West and Middle East.
The East is no different, and has been subject and host to various cultural wars and hatreds throughout their history as well. There is an entire wall built as testament to that.

This particular observation (separate from the topic of this thread) is not about paranoia, or which nations are more peaceful relative to others (and I would urge you to take another look at Scandinavia, and what's really going on over there). It is about us, and our global history of war.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Actually the Sami have kept their traditions very much alive, as well as isolated Slavic shaman. But this is really a topic for another thread, or another DIR entirely.
 

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
I see a lot of importance in the fact that Mjolnir is both a tool and a weapon. It symbolizes that many things in this world are both constructive and destructive-life, death, kindness, storms, etc. In a way, it symbolizes balance.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
I think that the categories we often use to discuss the deities (Gods of War, Goddesses of Love, etc.) originated with Western anthropology, sociology and psychology, when academics were trying to classify all these deities from different religions and cultures. What everyone here has pointed out is that even when you can identify common traits related to "War," for example, the deities are much more complex than the simple classification system.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
No so much a "Western" thing - that line is actually really blurry. @A Greased Scotsman can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think such strict archetyping is really more of a Greek/Roman thing. It's much less common in Germanic, Slavic and Celtic cultures.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
No so much a "Western" thing - that line is actually really blurry. @A Greased Scotsman can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think such strict archetyping is really more of a Greek/Roman thing. It's much less common in Germanic, Slavic and Celtic cultures.
Well, yes...the English, French, Germans, etc., of Western Europe were heavily influenced by classical learning (that is, Greek and Roman mythology, logic, rhetoric, etc.) and followed those categories as they established colonies around the globe and started conducting "scientific" research (sociology, etc.).

And that's exactly my point: the European (and American) sociologists, anthropologists, etc., who created the fields and dominated the discussion forced the deities of Germanic, Norse, Celtic, Hindu, Native American, mythologies, etc., into their predetermined categories that were rooted in Classical mythology and the theology of the Abrahamic religions.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Well, yes, so far as the modern world and the view of "Classical Antiquity" goes. I guess my confusion is; wouldn't Germanic cultures technically be "Western" cultures? For me, the divide of West and East has always been confusing.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
No so much a "Western" thing - that line is actually really blurry. @A Greased Scotsman can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think such strict archetyping is really more of a Greek/Roman thing. It's much less common in Germanic, Slavic and Celtic cultures.

No, even in Graeco-Roman circles such strict archetyping is generally the result of the lingering influence of Judeo-Christian thought. Pigeon-holing gods to be 'the god of X, Y or Z is a result of thinking there can be only a one god or a god who is god of one thing. The Olympians are way, way more complex than most give them credit for. Ares, for instance, bestows youthful vigour in addition to his blood-thirsty aspect. Mars, on the other hand, is a protector of farms in addition to being a war god. Dionysus is so complex that in a book I have his list of epithets covers about two and a half pages - more than any other god. Even Zeus! These epithets cover things ranging from his association with wine to his association with animals like big cats or bulls, to his associations with the seasons, to his associations with death & crossing into the Underworld.
 
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The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
The Sami people migrated from the area that is currently north-western Russia, and have populated that area, Finland, Norway and Sweden for at least 10,000 years; regions that are very much so within the range of PIE cultures.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
***Mod Post***

This thread is in the Heathenry DIR. If you do not identify as a Heathen, please limit your posting to respectful questions.

Please note that some posts have been deleted per rule 10:


RF Rules
 

Hildeburh

Active Member
No, even in Graeco-Roman circles such strict archetyping is generally the result of the lingering influence of Judeo-Christian thought. Pigeon-holing gods to be 'the god of X, Y or Z is a result of thinking there can be only a one god or a god who is god of one thing.

I agree, and In the case of Heathenry you can add the catagorising of gods as gods of X, Y or Z is also a result of uncritical reading of sources, particularly the Prose Edda.
 
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