The Gods "of War"

[Hildeburh]

There is a lot of confusion regarding that, but no. They are different women. Not only are they of different tribes (Frigga is Aesir, Freyja is Vanir), but they have different parentage. Frigga also has less to do with magic, and more to do with healing, hearth, frithkeeping (frith=community peace and security), marriage and birth. She is, basically, the "Mother Goddess" of the Aesir.

Freyja and the Vanir are not attested outside of Scandinavia because of this and the mythological similarities between Frigg and Freyja it has been theorised that they were once one goddess. But as Grundy points out "the problem of whether Frigg or Freyja may have been a single goddess originally is a difficult one, made more so by the scantiness of pre- Viking Age references to Germanic Goddesses".

S. Grundy, "Freyja and Frigg" in Billington, Sandra; Green, Miranda; ed., The Concept of the Goddess. Routledge (1998).

Frigg is also associated with magic:
• In the form of prophesy, she is said, "to know all fates but she herself does not speak". (Lokasenna).
• In the Second Merseburg Frija is listed as charming a lame horse, from this we can deduce a certain knowledge of magic.

Frigg is not all motherly love, she is mentioned as Frea in the Origio gentis Langobardorum as tricking Godan into granting victory to a tribe she favours. In Grímnismál Frigg tricks Odin into destroying his foster son ,Geirröth. In Lokasenna she is accused of sleeping with Odin's brothers Vili and Ve.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

First , welcome! Good to have another Heathen on the forum. I've got a couple threads open and am working on replies to you, but my wife and I literally almost died this afternoon, so I'm a bit shaken still. Thoughts aren't exactly forthcoming for deep discussion.

With Frigga and magic, I should have specified that of seiðr. Freyja and Odin are the most renowned for that. Also while I'm not too sure about the other two, in the Lokasenna, Loki was basically just [REDACTED]-talking everyone; I don't know many Heathens that take it as foundation for the gods' mannerisms and personalities.

 

[Hildeburh]

First , welcome! Good to have another Heathen on the forum. I've got a couple threads open and am working on replies to you, but my wife and I literally almost died this afternoon, so I'm a bit shaken still. Thoughts aren't exactly forthcoming for deep discussion.

Thank you for the welcome and I am very sorry to hear about your wife, I hope she has a speedy recovery.

With Frigga and magic, I should have specified that of seiðr. Freyja and Odin are the most renowned for that. Also while I'm not too sure about the other two, in the Lokasenna, Loki was basically just [REDACTED]-talking everyone; I don't know many Heathens that take it as foundation for the gods' mannerisms and personalities.

Tihe poetic style in Lokasenna is called flyting, it was common in medieval England and there are quite a few other examples in the Norse sources:

"Flyting is a stylized battle of insults and wits that was practiced most actively between the fifth and 16th centuries in England and Scotland. Participants employed the timeless tools of provocation and perversion as well as satire, rhetoric, and early bathroom humor to publicly trounce opponents. The term “flyting” comes from Old English and Old Norse words for “quarrel” and “provocation.” ‘Tis a form of highly poetic abuse, or highly abusive poetry"

Flyting Was Medieval England's Version of an Insult-Trading Rap Battle

This is the best blog I have found on flyting in the Norse sources, make good reading as do most of his blogs:

Insulting Women: Flyting in Old Norse Literature

There is no reason to assume that there is no substance to Loki's insults, we know from the remaining corpus that our gods, much like the gods of other polytheistic societies, we flawed and behaved in ways we would today consider morally questionable.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Thank you for the welcome and I am very sorry to hear about your wife, I hope she has a speedy recovery.

Oh, it was both of us. We were driving back from the RenFest, trying to beat a very bad storm home but we ended up running right into it. We got caught in a downburst while over a bridge. It was very close to ending very badly for us. We're alive (obviously) but I was more shaken than she was because as it turns out she didn't know we were on a bridge; the rain was just that heavy to where she couldn't see our surroundings.

But enough about us lol... I do agree that our gods are certainly not perfect - I've actually called criticism to Odin in a few discussions. However while they have their flaws, my point with Frigga vs. Freyja is that she is more prone to keeping the peace, even if it must be done through single acts of violence like with Geirröth. While Odin's fosterling, he was also a king who was rumored to tortured his guests - Geirröth himself was acting the frith-breaker. He tortured Odin for little reason, and even his son could see the error in his ways. HIs death even wasn't so much an act of violence on Frigga's behalf, but his inhospitable nature was his own undoing.

Freyja, on the other hand, would probably just ride out against him.

 

[Hildeburh]

Oh, it was both of us. We were driving back from the RenFest, trying to beat a very bad storm home but we ended up running right into it. We got caught in a downburst while over a bridge. It was very close to ending very badly for us. We're alive (obviously) but I was more shaken than she was because as it turns out she didn't know we were on bridge; the rain was just that heavy to where she couldn't see our surroundings.

I am glad you both are OK, must have been scary. It has been raining solidly here for five days and will contine for a while. We have had one death where a car lost control and hitting and killing a pedestrian. So take care.

But enough about us lol... I do agree that our gods are certainly not perfect - I've actually called criticism to Odin in a few discussions. However while they have their flaws, my point with Frigga vs. Freyja is that she is more prone to keeping the peace, even if it must be done through single acts of violence like with Geirröth. While Odin's fosterling, he was also a king who was rumored to tortured his guests - Geirröth himself was acting the frith-breaker. He tortured Odin for little reason, and even his son could see the error in his ways. HIs death even wasn't so much an act of violence on Frigga's behalf, but his inhospitable nature was his own undoing. Freyja, on the other hand, would probably just ride out against him.

They are gods, their morality is different, not up to me to criticise. Germanic women spurred their men on to violence, in battles and feuds. I would think they would not expect their goddesses to be any different.

The poem Grímnismál indicates that the accusation against Geirröth was part of the deception by Frigg, she set him up by sending Fulla to whisper in his ear (that a magician was coming to bewitch him). Frigg knew the reception an unsuspecting Odin was going to get at Geirröth's court, all to get her own way which was for Odin to favour Agnarr.

I like Frigg's feisty attitude

 

[DanishCrow]

I think only a person who has never devoted themselves to, or communed with, Freja would consider her a goddess of war. Her gifts are of the vanir: magic, fertility, soil, not kingship, mass murder and warring for warrings sake. (can you tell I have a bias? )

She takes a fair bit of the greatest warriors for purposes that are hard to divulge, but apart from pulling her weight at ragnarock, military conflict is not her portfolio.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Actually it is, quite a bit. Under her role as Valfreyja, she leads the Valkyries into every battle.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Surely gods are multi-competent?

We Hellenists have the advantage of a lot of documentation and it's interesting to see how different communities called on different gods. Getting married? Ask Zeus and Hera for a blessing in Athens, but Hades and Persephone in Tarentum. Normally one associated Ares and Athene with war, but Pan and Asklepios leant a hand on occasion.

Would the situation really be different with Germanic gods?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

More so with the Germanic gods, I'd say. They have things that they're well-known for (Thor and thunder, for instance,) but they aren't truly the "God of ____" as we commonly see in Greek and Roman themes. While it's a common add-on, it's something that came about through Roman conquests North and lazy efforts with Christianization and categorization.

 

[DanishCrow]

To each their own, I guess. It's not the role she's playing in my life.

 

[Dr. Mahlek]

To me they are all Gods of War, and also Gods of everything you pointed out, and as so much lore has been lost probably Gods of so much more!

In my opinion they were all Gods of War due to the culture that venerated them. Every real man was a warrior and many other things besides. For me that is the great appeal of the Norse pantheon, they were multifaceted, complicated, human figures. Far more relatable.