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The Golden Compass (Spoiler)

Kungfuzed

Kungfuzed

Student Nurse
I haven't seen any other threads on this movie so I thought I'd start one.

I just saw The Golder Compass today against great warnings from my sister who hasn't seen the movie but told me it was an atheist movie and that they kill God in the end (she's unaware of my current religious persuasion, I'm still in the closet as far as my family goes). I think the movie is based on a book, and maybe the rumors are comming from the book rather than the movie. I haven't read the book. There is alot of symbolism in the movie. As far as the movie goes, there is no mention of God, and nothing I saw that even represented God. I also didn't detect a single shred of Atheism, though there is plenty of magic, metaphysics, and witchcraft in it. The movie is not complete and it's obvious that there will be a sequel, I'm guessing a trilogy since that's all the rage these days.

The movie takes place in a parallel universe in which everyone's soul resides outside of their body in the form of a pet that follows them around everywhere and is called a demon. My wife and I got into a long discussion about why it is called a demon, it was a little confusing at first. As I thought more about it, I think the demon represents our nature, our will, that which gives us our freedom and individuality. It is typical for religion to demonize the natural man. If you question things or feel the desire to think your own thoughts or do your own thing, that's a demon.

There is an organization called the Magisterium who rule the place. They pretty much tell the people what to think and say and do and it is taboo to even question them. The Magisterium don't seem very religious, they don't act out any ritual or prayer. They do encourage the study of metaphysics and they operate in huge, ornate, cathederal like buildings. It's as though they took a snapshot of the Spanish inquisition and removed the religion from it leaving behind a cold elite group with unquestionable authority and a thirst for subjecting everyone to their will regardless of the cost.

One of the secret projects the Magisterium is up to is to kidnap children, take them far away, and use a machine to forceably separate the children from their demon.

The star of the move, Lyra, is a girl who has been given a device called an alethiometer. She askes it questions and it tells her the truth and she seems to be the only one who can use it.

Anyway, for those of you who have seen the movie, or maybe even read the book, let's discuss.
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Kungfuzed said:
The movie takes place in a parallel universe in which everyone's soul resides outside of their body in the form of a pet that follows them around everywhere and is called a demon. My wife and I got into a long discussion about why it is called a demon, it was a little confusing at first. As I thought more about it, I think the demon represents our nature, our will, that which gives us our freedom and individuality. It is typical for religion to demonize the natural man. If you question things or feel the desire to think your own thoughts or do your own thing, that's a demon.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen it or read the book, but I believe it's daemon, the greek word for the higher self.
 
nutshell

nutshell

Well-Known Member
I've heard the movies are watered down from the novels. Either way, I say so what and will watch it. Christians against the movie are likely insecure in their own beliefs.
 
Kungfuzed

Kungfuzed

Student Nurse
penguino said:
The Golden Compass soundss ever so boring, especially with Daniel Craig...UHH! First he ruined James Bond, now this...
Click to expand...
My daugher was quite bored during the movie and kept asking to leave because we hadn't eaten yet. My wife and I enjoyed it though.
 
Aasimar

Aasimar

Atheist
I watched it today and I absolutely loved it. It is slightly watered down from the book, but not much. Mainly just missing a few plot points. My kind of theme, that's for sure.
 
methylatedghosts

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
I remember reading the book when I was a young teen. I remember I LOVED the book. I'm definately going to see it (even though I suspect that it's not nearly as good as the book - as is the way with most books turned films)
 
Mister_T

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
Kungfuzed said:
The Magisterium don't seem very religious, they don't act out any ritual or prayer.
Click to expand...

If anything, I thought they seemed more like a "government" type organization, which in turn, made it seem like an anti government movie than a anti religion movie.

Also there was one inconsistency in the movie that really stood out to me. The director seemed to strive for minimizing the violence depicted in the story. When the good guys "killed" the bad guys, there was no blood and they disappeared into a pretty cloud of dust.......


.....but when the the armor bears fought, the good bear slaps the bad bear's jaw off of his face (meat hanging off of what's left and all) and proceeds to chomp down on his throat and break his neck.

:areyoucra :confused:
 
Troublemane

Troublemane

Well-Known Member
I agree with the T, there. I just watched it on dvd, and IMO the Magisterium is depicted as more symbolic of authority in general, though I understand the book makes their religiousness explicit. And despite the authors' supposed anti-christian stance, I found the story more anti-intellectual than anything else, and perhaps subtly racist. (the "gyptians" blatantly gypsies).

What I dont get, is:
1)If the goal of the author is as he says to undermine the christian faith, why does he talk about souls and mystical concepts? Why does he use the word "daemon", which naturally invokes the christian term for an evil spirit, "demon"? Why not deny the concept of spirit altogether?---well, maybe his knowledge of metaphysical traditions such as esoteric christianity is limited.

2)Why did the Magisterium allow the existence of the scientists at all, if they were so threatened by the mere knowledge of the existence of parallel worlds? ---If I was the Magisterum I would kill em all straight off! In my mind this makes them unbelievable as villains, if they are not a threat then there is no real challenge to face for the heroes.---(perhaps this is why the story seems so boring, as theres no actual tension, just momentary shocks and frights)

3)Whats the deal with the dust, and why is it a threat to the Magisterium in the first place? The mere fact that other worlds exist must be kept from the public knowledge, otherwise....what? If the society in this world is a pluralistic one, with open debate on subjects then the Magisterium has no real power (like the real church) so cannot be threatened by scientific discovery. But if there is no open debate and the Magisterium is a dictatorial theocracy, then...why do the scientists exist at all? It makes no sense, really. Like the part about the Magisterium wanting to control all parallel worlds too. That is in conflict with their denial of their existence, which...oh bother. Its all just too idiotic to try and make it make sense!

I guess it all comes back to that. I just cant find the story interesting, even as escapist fantasy, because the premise is all wrong. This story might have been controversial in the 14th century, but not in the 21st century. Today its just plain boring.
 
T

Theocan

Active Member
I think the Magisterium represents the Catholic church in my opinion. For the fact of the controlling like aspect in the pre-Martin Luther days.

And the reason why people who only saw the movie thought it was more government (my opinion too) I read a criticism of the movie saying that the directors had to take out some of the "religious symbolism" so audiences would not connect religion wit the Magisterium.
 
blackout

blackout

Violet.
It seems somewhat probable that "The Magisterium" refers to the Roman Catholic church,
because when you do a search on the word (Magisterium)
the ONLY direct/exact definition you can find for it has to do with the Roman Catholic church (directly).

Perhaps the Magisterium ALSO secondarily refers to governmental authority via "magistrate" and "magisterial".

How often do church and state work either seperately or together to keep people "dependant" on them?
And under their rule and authority?

If people could simply connect with "God" on their own (ie... "The Dust"),
then who would need the churches (and church authorities)?

If the religious & world authorities can keep people seperated from their own selves,
from their own "souls", from their own ability to discern God, Life, Self from that part of "self" that knows...
that "inner voice" (or daemon),
then they can retain authority and authorship over "men's" lives for themselves.
They can continue to rule on high as the "reality definers" of men.

I really enjoyed the movie, and didn't feel it put forth an athiestic message at all.
Quite the contrary actually.
Though the concept of "God" portrayed was of more of a pantheistic or panentheistic "type".
(I have learned SO MUCH here at RF! A religious education indeed.)

~UV~

Dictionary:
(answers.com)
magisterium

(măj'ĭ-stîr'ē-əm)
pron.gif




n. Roman Catholic Church.
The authority to teach religious doctrine.
[Latin, the office of a teacher or other person in authority, from magister, master. See magisterial.]

Dictionary: magisterial

(măj'ĭ-stîr'ē-əl)
pron.gif




adj.
    1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a master or teacher; authoritative: a magisterial account of the history of the English language.
    2. Sedately dignified in appearance or manner: “She would appear on the porch and reign over the street in magisterial beauty” (Harper Lee).
  2. Dogmatic; overbearing: expounded on official protocol in magisterial tones.
  3. Of or relating to a magistrate or a magistrate's official functions.
[Late Latin magisteriālis, from magisterius, from Latin magister, master, teacher.]


And the first few lines from Wikipedia....
Magisterium is a "teaching authority, especially of the Roman Catholic Church"[1]. The word is derived from Latin magisterium, which originally meant the office of a president, chief, director, superintendent, etc. (in particular, though rarely, the office of tutor or instructor of youth, tutorship, guardianship) or teaching, instruction, advice.[2]
In the Roman Catholic Church the word "Magisterium" refers to the teaching authority of the church.

A magistrate is a judicial officer. In common law systems a magistrate usually has limited authority to administer and enforce the law. In civil law systems a magistrate may be a judge of a superior court. In some jurisdictions, such as Australia, the term has become both Federal Magistrates and state magistrates have jurisdiction similar to a judge. A magistrate's court may have jurisdiction in civil cases, criminal cases, or both. A related, but not always equivalent, term is Chief Magistrate, which (historically) can refer to political and administrative as well as judicial officers.
 
T

Theocan

Active Member
n. Roman Catholic Church.
The authority to teach religious doctrine.
[Latin, the office of a teacher or other person in authority, from magister, master. See
adj.
    1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a master or teacher; authoritative: a magisterial account of the history of the English language.
    2. Sedately dignified in appearance or manner: “She would appear on the porch and reign over the street in magisterial beauty” (Harper Lee).
  2. Dogmatic; overbearing: expounded on official protocol in magisterial tones.
  3. Of or relating to a magistrate or a magistrate's official functions.
[Late Latin magisteriālis, from magisterius, from Latin magister, master, teacher.]


.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on the Catholic Church, having one dominant church sets in chaos and is a recipe for corruption.

I think the author tied in the church with Government as a type of extremism, on how a lot of people may be intolerant to different ideas(religions, science) and basically tell you 'how' to think... I want to read the book series ( there are two more books in the series) to see the full connection of atheism. (if there is one)
 
blackout

blackout

Violet.
Theocan said:
I want to read the book series ( there are two more books in the series) to see the full connection of atheism. (if there is one)
Click to expand...

You know, I think I just may do that myself.
(funny... I sensed a trilogy coming...)

Oh yes, and welcome to RF Theocan. :)

~Violet~
 
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