Are you serious?
Easter is the day our redemption was won. For a Christian, it's far more important than any Jewish feast.
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The Gospel of Thomas and Philip
psychoslice
Veteran Member
So you think, and of course that is all that matters to you ?.
Do you have an actual point to make?
psychoslice
Veteran Member
No, I have already made it in case you didn't see it lol.
So your point (notwithstanding your seeming ignorance about the contents of the Gospels) is that as a Christian, I see Easter as pretty big deal?
Okay...
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes it is rather silly to me personally.
Nah, not to me. God's plan revolves around the jewish feasts, and the Apostles didn't celebrate no Easter. Pentecost or the Jewish Shavout is when God poured out his spirit on mankind, symbolizing the general resurrection, or redemption. The wheat harvest.
That is why the gospel of Thomas in not in the Protestant canon.
The feasts are very important to God, so they should be important to you as a Christian too.
Passover is a prophetic picture of Jesus's sacrifice for us.
Passover will be celebrated in the Millennial Kingdom when Jesus returns (Ezekiel 45).
When Jesus told us to do something in remembrance of Him (luke 22), he wasn't just creating a new tradition of communion but he was likely talking about the observance of passover (which is the context of their meal, and in the context of passover being a prophetic picture of what Jesus was about to do).
The date of easter has no significance Biblically or historically to Christ.
The word easter doesn't even have a Biblical or historical basis rooted in Christ.
Passover was the feast that took place during this time. Passover takes place on the 14th day of the Nisan (the first Hebrew month), as per God's instructions.
Easter's date is different, determined by a formula man created, and does not coincide with the date of passover.
That's without even getting into all the questionable traditions and symbolism associated with easter, which have pagan roots. In that sense it is not unlike Christmas, a date and celebration with no Biblical basis that preserves a lot of pagan traditions, strongly suggesting it was a pagan feast that was later co-opted by the catholic church as a way of easing the transition of pagans into the faith.
Unfortunately, we see throughout the Old Testament that one of the major sins of Israel was the syncretism of observing pagan rituals and then claiming they did it for God.
If you want to honor a day as a memorial to what Christ did for us, passover is what you should observe.
There is absolutely no need to co-opt a pagan tradition, with a name that likely refers to a pagan idol god, and is set on a man-made date; when God has already provided a context for us to memorialize the sacrifice of Christ in the way He says is appropriate, using the traditions, dates, and terminology that He gave. There's a reason you don't see people observing easter dates or traditions in Ezekiel 45.
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Not just Passover. All of feast days in Lev 23 symbolize the work of Jesus.
Not just Passoier. All of the feastday in Lev 23, symbolize the work of Jesus.
Lev 23:8-9 - UNLEAVENED BREAD – This feast symbolizes our sanctification and our justification.
I Cor 5:7 - clean out the old leaven that we may be a new lump and it says we are in fact unleavened.
10-14 - FIRSTFRUITS – RESURRECTION
I Cor 15:20 – Christ is the first-fruits from the dead
Jas 1:18 – We are also considered first-fruits because we will also be resurrected(Rom 6:5).
This was a celebration of the first grain harvest, with a view of the larger harvest to come, and in the parable of the sower, what did the seed or grain symbolize? The sons of the kingdom.
If this picture is accurate, we would expect a picture of the resurrection 3 days after the feast that symbolizes the crucifixion(Passover).
Lev 23:11 – It was celebrated during the week of Unleavened Bread, on the day after the Sabbath---Sunday, the day Jesus rose from the dead.Lev 23:12-13 – On this day they were to sacrifice a male lamb with a grain offering, with its drink offering.
Lev 23:15-17 - THE FEAST OF WEEKS OR PENTECOST
The coming of the Holy Spirit and the birth of the church.
It was celebrated on the day after 7 Sabbaths(Sunday) from the time of firstfruits. This is the exact amount of time from the resurrection of Christ until the coming of the Holy Spirit(Acts 2:1).
This was a celebration of the ingathering of the first wheat harvest---God's first harvest of those redeemed in Christ. On the day of Pentecost 3000 souls were added to the church(Acts 2:41).
V17 – This feast celebrating the birth of the church also had a grain offering but what is different about this one and the one of first-fruits? It included leaven because there will be false teaching and hypocrisy in the church.
Pentecost occurred in late spring, then comes summer. Summer is a time of labor in the field(world) in preparation for the final harvest.
Mt 13:24 – God has planted His field and we are to labor in it until the final harvest.
Jn 4:35 – Do you not say, "There are yet 4 months, then comes the harvest?
The Jews divided their calendar into a religious year and a civil year. The 4 months brings us to the seventh month which is the beginning of their civil year. The final 3 celebrations are in the seventh month.
TRUMPETS – THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH AND ISRAEL REGATHERED
2 uses of trumpets in the O.T.: To assemble the people(Num 10:2) and announce the start of the reign of kings .
There are 3 main verses that deal with the rapture of the church.
Mt 24:31 – God's angels will come with a trumpet and gather God's elect.
I Thes 4:16-17 – The trump of God will sound and the rapture will begin.
I Cor 15:51 – I tell you a mystery(keep mystery in mind). v52 – At the last trumpet, the rapture will begin.
To announce the start of the reign of a king.
Rev 10:7 – When the seventh angel is about to sound, the mystery of God is finished.
Rev 11:15 – The seventh trumpet sounds and the reign of the world is transferred to Christ.
The feast of trumpets starts 10 days of repentance and introspection, leading to the most solemn day of the Jewish year.
DAY OF ATONEMENT – THIS REPRESENTS THE DAY ISRAEL WILL RECOGNIZE HER MESSIAH AND REPENT
Rom 11:25-26 – Christ will come and remove the scales from their eyes like He did Paul and they will see their Messiah.
On this day they were to afflict their souls. On this day they will look on the One whom they have pierced and afflict their souls.
On this day they presented 2 goats to the Lord and cast lots for them. One was killed for a sin offering, called the Lord's lot. The other was the scape-goat. It was released into the wilderness, bearing the sins of the people, never to be seen again. Both goats represent the work of Jesus---He died for our sins and removed them forever.
Ps 103:12 – As far as the east is from the west has He removed our sins from us.
This was the only day of the year the high priest could enter the Holy of Holies(a picture of heaven) and then only with the blood of a sacrifice for the sins of the people.
Heb 9:28 – So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. Since Christ is the high priest and the offering, we have a picture of Christ offering Himself for our sins.
When Jesus died the veil to the earthly Holy of Holies was torn from top to bottom. The veil is Christ's flesh(Heb 10:19-20). The earthly tabernacle is only a shadow of the heavenly one(Heb 8:5). In fact, in Revelation, Jesus is called the Tabernacle of God(Rev 21:3)
V34-36 - FEAST OF BOOTHS OR INGATHERING
The last feast is the most exciting for Christians. A celebration of the final harvest. It pictures God's kingdom on earth. A joyous assembly of all of God's people brought under the rulership of the King of Kings.
Lev 23:39 says we will rejoice before God for 7 days, with a rest on the first day and a rest on the eighth day. We start with rest and end with rest. 8 speaks of eternity. Remember, the 7th day in Genesis did not have an evening and a morning recorded.
On the 8th day they left their temporary dome and went back to their permanent home. Christians are called “ambassadors for Christ.” An ambassador is appointed by the ruled of his country and works a foreign land with a foreign tongue. When an ambassador finishes their tour of duty, they are recalled, they return to their native country and to their permanent home.
Jn 14:2b - I go to prepare a place for you...v3b - I will come again and receive you to Myself that where I am, there you may be also.
roger1440
I do stuff
Did you also know none of the early Church fathers quoted from the Gospel of Thomas they considered heretical? Therefore there is no way of knowing if it’s the same Gospel.
While it's certainly possible that the gospel of thomas they were declaring heretical was yet another false work by the same name, that doesn't change the fundmental point I was making: Which is that we have no historical record of the gospel of thomas being around prior to that. It's not in the canon lists of the 2nd century, mentions by early church writers, or alluded to or quoted from by the earliest church writers. There's not one scrap of evidence that would lead us to believe that the gospel of thomas is anything other than a 3rd century forgery.
Even internally, the document itself contradicts what is found in the OT and NT in terms of who Jesus is, the way of salvation, and God's ultimate plan of redemption. So on that basis alone it has already set itself in disagreement with every other NT book and much of the OT. You cannot claim the gospel of thomas is therefore authentic without throwing out most of the Bible in the process.
roger1440
I do stuff
“Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.” (Gospel of Thomas, saying 3) http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html
20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.” (Luke 17:20-21)
I'm not sure what you think that proves.
You must not be aware of the gross contradictions between the gospel of thomas and the authentic Gospels, as well as how it contradicts the OT prophets. . God does not contradict Himself. Either thomas is right or all of the NT and OT is wrong. That's an impossible claim when the gospel of thomas doesn't predate either of them.
Some disqualifying major contradictions:
Thomas (13): Jesus corrects them for calling Him "master", and says He is not their master.
Bible: Luke 17:14. John 13:13. Jesus does not correct those who call Him master, but affirms they are right to do so. He also says that no one else on earth is to be considered master, or father, or messiah, because there is only one who can be called that (Matthew 23). By "thomas" rejecting the idea that Jesus should be called master, he is in effect rejecting his claim to unique diety.
Thomas (51). It claims the resurrection of the dead has already happened, and the new world has already come.
Bible: John 11:24, John 6:39, Luke 14:12-14, Luke 18:8, Luke 18:30, Luke 20:35-36, Acts of the Apostles 1:11, Acts of the Apostles 23:6, Acts of the Apostles 24:15, Mark 10:30, Hebrews 2:5, 2 Peter 3:12-14, Revelation 21:2, 2 Peter 3:3-5, 1 Corinthians 6:14, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, 1 Corinthians 15:30-32, 1 John 3:2, Philippians 3:21, Psalms 17:15, Psalms 71:20, Isaiah 26:19, Isaiah 65:17, Hosea 13:14, Revelation 21:4, Isaiah 65:20.
The resurrection of all from the dead, the establishment of a new order, and eventually the recreation of the earth and heavens, are all linked with the return of Jesus. The gospel of thomas is trying to deny the major hope of the Christian faith by saying that which was promised has already come in full.
Ephesians 1:14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, Acts of the Apostles 26:22-23, Romans 8:23, James 1:18,
Except, we see in the Bible, that what we see with Jesus and the early church is only the first fruits and downpayment of what will later be given in full.
This is pictured in the observance of the first fruits of the harvest in the Levitical feasts God gave for observance. It is also reflected in parables given by Jesus where His church is a bride waiting for the consummation of what was promised to them (An engagement is a promise that will be fulfilled at a later day, to which the bride is usually given a downpayment as proof of their promise).
Thomas (77). A pantheistic view of Jesus not found in the Bible.
Thomas (114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."
Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."
Jesus talked a lot about entering the Kingdom of Heaven, and none of it ever suggested anything have to do with making females into males so they would no longer be "unworthy of life".
The gospel of thomas fits the pattern one would expect to find of a document that was forged at a later date with the intention of fooling people who have some level of familiarity with the authentic historical gospels. Similar to the fabricated epistle of laodicea, where most of the document is spent restating what is found elsewhere or making generic irrelevant statements. The only difference between these two: Laodicea was not written with the intent of spreading lies that contradict the authentic NT documents, but was interested in merely being passed off as historically authentic when it was not. Thomas, in contrast, is clearly written with the intent of putting forth unbiblical lies as truth, because there are several instances where it tries to strike at the heart of foundational issues of who Jesus is, how salvation is achieved, and the prophetic hope we have of Jesus's return - all hidden in the midst of restated Gospel quotes and generic meaningless sayings that are meant to give the illusion of authenticity to someone who is not well versed in the scriptures (and to that end, it has succeeded in fooling some modern people who don't know the Bible well or believe it's contents).
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allfoak
Alchemist
I would propose that the Gospel of Thomas is likely to be the correct understanding of original Christianity since it has not been subject to corruption like the ones in the bible.
I do not have a problem with any of the so called contradictions.
In fact it seems to me that seen from a different perspective, the bible verses you quote could actually support what the Gospel of Thomas says.
roger1440
I do stuff
How can both Israel and Jesus be the son of God?
Naganami
Member
"Easter" was stolen from Astaroth [one of the 4 crowned Princes of Hell, a Demoness and famous Pagan Goddess].. Originally known as "Ashtar." This holiday coincides with the Vernal Equinox of spring when day and night are of equal length. Known as "Eastre" to the Anglo-Saxons. As the Goddess of fertility, she was associated with rabbits and eggs. The Christians stole this holiday and twisted its meaning. Other names include: Easter, Eastre, Eos, Eostre, Ester, Estrus, (Estrus is when an animal goes into heat; mating season) Oestrus, Oistros, and Ostara. Again, the "Lamb of God" was stolen from the Zodiac sign of Aries the Ram which occurs every spring." - Satanic Holidays
"Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen...for one cutteth a tree out of the forest...They deck it with silver and gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers." - Jeremiah 10:2-4 (KJV).
On what historical basis do you come to that conclusion?
There is no historical evidence that the gospel of thomas was anything other than a 3rd century forgery.
The authentic four Gospels we have are witnessed to by church writers in the late 1st and early 2nd century (Clement, Polycarp, Papias).
All throughout the 2nd century we have writings (From writings like Justin Martyr) that all affirm unanimously the four Gospels we have. No other "gospels" are ever seen to be up for consideration as authentic in the early church history.
All of these writers and early church documents, when writing about theological issues, only ever reflect the truth found in the four Gospels. None of it ever affirms the contradictions found in the gospel of thomas.
We have physical fragments and copies of John, Matthew, and Revelation that all date between 100 and 200 AD. In addition to an almost complete copy of Paul's writings from about 200 AD.
We have a physical document called the Muratorian Fragment, which is dated to the 2nd century and gives a canon list of scripture that is the NT we have today minus only four books (James, 1/2 Peter, Hebrews).
Where's the pedigree of theology and history that can trace the gospel of thomas back into the 1st century? There is none. The earliest mention we have is from the church in the 3rd century making reference to a heretical gospel of thomas.
What reason could you possibly have to believe the gospel of thomas represents the original 1st century truth of Jesus, in light of all the historical evidence that says otherwise?
There's no reason to believe the Biblical sacrifice of a Lamb was was stolen from anything.
It's a major recurring theme all throughout the Bible. It's an essential prophetic pattern found in the old testament, from Abraham to Moses to the prophets, which is meant to point to Christ.
Able also sacrificed an animal to God, and if I recall Jewish tradition may also say it was a lamb.
Interesting thing to consider:
According to Jewish tradition, it was Seth (probably under inspiration from God) who created the Zodiac patterns as a way of encoding God's plan of redemption for mankind into the movements of the sky. This tradition was carried on until Noah, from which it spread out around the world. Which is why today you find the same basic Zodiac all over the world, but with corruptions and changes along the way.