The Grand Evolution Conspiracy

[not nom]

Yes there is brainwashing going on. For example if a child at school is only taught Darwin's theory of evolution (nothing else) then this is brainwashing becuase none of the other alternatives are being taught. For example we can teach Darwin's theory of evolution aka Neo-Darwinism, but also teach Lamarckism, directed evolution, other evolutionary mechanisms, the independent origins theory, the ancient astronaut theory, devolution, theistic evolution, creationism or intelligent design etc etc, it's best to be open minded.

I don't disagree with that at all.

But I make a distinction between "evolution as the explanation for everything" and "evolution as something that is observable".

Is gravity solely responsible for the formation of stars and planets? I don't know. Is gravity a fact? Yes, it is. As is evolution.

Us living folk right now were not around on the planet billions of years ago, we do not know what happened. For all we know, maybe a clown took a massive dump on earth and this is how life sprang. Stupid, rather unlikely, but not impossible.

I don't disagree with that either ^^

But there are a billion such stories, none with any evidence to them -- so which ones should be teached? Why teach only one particular brand of creationism? There are lots of myths, including the demiurge of the gnostics... that's all for RE, not biology. In biology, you learn about biology. And biological organisms evolve.

We do not know from the present science what was going on earth billions of years ago, science only deals with what is observable now, it's stupid to only teach one theory in the classroom about origins on earth, because it is a mystery.

Sure, if people think just making up stories counts just as much as actually observing what is happening, then the origins of earth will remain a mystery to them. And they have to resort to conspiracy theories. You speak of suppressed evidence, care to even *try* to back up such claims?

 

[not nom]

Perhaps you are brainwashed into thinking people are brainwashed.

surely you haven't watched "Jesus Camp"...

 

[johnhanks]

... there are some people on these forums who seem seriously convinced that there is a grand conspiracy by evolutionists to brainwash people into accepting evolution as part of recruiting them into a misotheistic system. There are creatonists who seem to think that evolution is a deliberate and evil hoax...

This idea pops up repeatedly not just on this forum but wherever creationists gather to fulminate.

I think in part at least the 'grand conspiracy' notion develops as a defence against having to admit that virtually the entire scientific community really has examined the evidence for evolution and found it convincing: that, heaven forbid, would leave the poor creationist battling against real evidence and real scientific reasoning. Far easier to convince yourself that (since it is core to your beliefs that the evidence must be false) the scientists must be faking it.

 

[lunakilo]

... there are some people on these forums who seem seriously convinced that there is a grand conspiracy by evolutionists to brainwash people into accepting evolution as part of recruiting them into a misotheistic system. There are creatonists who seem to think that evolution is a deliberate and evil hoax spread by people who are desperate to avoid the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's not that evolution is a plausible hypothesis that just happens to be untrue, but it's an evil lie. ...

.... This is down to natural selection being supported for social and political reasons, and so certain scientists can look busy and keep their jobs, without the actual claims of the mechanism even existing. Other mechanisms are supressed or ridiculed. All attention goes to the flawed theory of natural selection.

Yes there is brainwashing going on. For example if a child at school is only taught Darwin's theory of evolution (nothing else) then this is brainwashing becuase none of the other alternatives are being taught. ...

So are you saying there is a grand conspiracy by evolutionists to brainwash people into accepting evolution ?

 

[yourgraceisenough]

when you consider evolution is taught as part of science to add credence to its claims, it is a subject that cannot be dropped by a pupil until much later in their education...

While religion is taught in any class available by a teacher who does not believe it and as a hairy fairy could be subject and can be dropped by pupils for all kinds of reasons...

yep I would say evolution is being forced on our kids...

 

[lunakilo]

when you consider evolution is taught as part of science to add credence to its claims, it is a subject that cannot be dropped by a pupil until much later in their education...

While religion is taught in any class available by a teacher who does not believe it and as a hairy fairy could be subject and can be dropped by pupils for all kinds of reasons...

yep I would say evolution is being forced on our kids...

So all teachers who teach science class are fanatical evolutionists who brain wash our children.
And all teachers who teach religion calss are fanatical atheists who does not believe in God and brainwash our children. :areyoucra

I am curious, do you think we should stop teaching science in schools in order to protect our children from being exposed to scientific theories?

 

[yourgraceisenough]

So all teachers who teach science class are fanatical evolutionists who brain wash our children.
And all teachers who teach religion calss are fanatical atheists who does not believe in God and brainwash our children. :areyoucra

I am curious, do you think we should stop teaching science in schools in order to protect our children from being exposed to scientific theories?

I didn't say that, I said teachers of religion do not believe what they are teaching...

evolution is taught as fact and doing so within a science lesson reaffirms that...

 

[lunakilo]

I didn't say that, I said teachers of religion do not believe what they are teaching...

evolution is taught as fact and doing so within a science lesson reaffirms that...

Evolution is taught in science lesson because it is science (that is, evolution is the most widely accepted explanation science has so far been able to come up with to explain the diversity of life on earth).
Religion is taught in a religion lesson because it is religion.

Do you have any facts to back up your claim that the teachers of religion do not believe what they are teaching?

Do you think it is relevant whether or not a teacher is 100% certain what he or she teaches is the truth as long as they actually teach the children?

 

[yourgraceisenough]

Evolution is taught in science lesson because it is science (that is, evolution is the most widely accepted explanation science has so far been able to come up with to explain the diversity of life on earth).
Religion is taught in a religion lesson because it is religion.

Do you have any facts to back up your claim that the teachers of religion do not believe what they are teaching?

Do you think it is relevant whether or not a teacher is 100% certain what he or she teaches is the truth as long as they actually teach the children?

many people believe evolution is no longer theory but a proven fact, is that how it should be taught, by your own words it is the best explanation for the diversity of life so you have made your mind up..

RE now covers all religions, they cannot believe them all so yes it is quite obvious they do not believe them...

 

[lunakilo]

many people believe evolution is no longer theory but a proven fact, is that how it should be taught, by your own words it is the best explanation for the diversity of life so you have made your mind up..

I am not the one who made up my mind, the theory of evolution is the most widely accepted theoy describing the diversity of life. That is why it is taught in science class, not because I believe it.

In science class many different scientific theories from different scientific fields have to be covered. It makes sense (to me at least) to pick the most widely accepted theory from each field and teach that.

RE now covers all religions, they cannot believe them all so yes it is quite obvious they do not believe them...

But this is how it should be, is it not?
It would not make sense to require that a teacher of religion believe all that he teaches about. If the teacher does in fact believe in one of the religions isn't that actually a bad thing because brain wash the children into believeng what he believes?

 

[yourgraceisenough]

I am not the one who made up my mind, the theory of evolution is the most widely accepted theoy describing the diversity of life. That is why it is taught in science class, not because I believe it.

In science class many different scientific theories from different scientific fields have to be covered. It makes sense (to me at least) to pick the most widely accepted theory from each field and teach that.


But this is how it should be, is it not?
It would not make sense to require that a teacher of religion believe all that he teaches about. If the teacher does in fact believe in one of the religions isn't that actually a bad thing because brain wash the children into believeng what he believes?

so basically you are going with the percentages, what most people think...

yet your fine with a teacher who accepts evolution brainwashing kids in to accepting that as fact....

of course it's a bad thing, how could you teach about a faith that you do not accept?

 

[lunakilo]

so basically you are going with the percentages, what most people think...

No. I am talking about what science has come up with using the scientific method. It is not a vote.

yet your fine with a teacher who accepts evolution brainwashing kids in to accepting that as fact....

I am glad you call it a fact
And I am fine with science being taught in science class.
It is important that children understand how different scientific theories came about, and what they are based on.

I don't see this as brainwashing.

of course it's a bad thing, how could you teach about a faith that you do not accept?

I doubt faith can be taught.
And if it can I don't think it is up to a school teacher to teach the children faith.
It is the teachers job to teach the children about different religions and the job of the children to learn and make up their own minds.

If you wan't to influence your own children and tell them what they should believe in, that is up to you.

 

[yourgraceisenough]

No. I am talking about what science has come up with using the scientific method. It is not a vote.


I am glad you call it a fact
And I am fine with science being taught in science class.
It is important that children understand how different scientific theories came about, and what they are based on.

I don't see this as brainwashing.


I doubt faith can be taught.
And if it can I don't think it is up to a school teacher to teach the children faith.
It is the teachers job to teach the children about different religions and the job of the children to learn and make up their own minds.

If you wan't to influence your own children and tell them what they should believe in, that is up to you.

very interesting so you would agree that intelligent design could be taught in science at the same time as evolution....

then the children can decide...

 

[lunakilo]

very interesting so you would agree that intelligent design could be taught in science at the same time as evolution....

then the children can decide...

I would agree that intelligent design could be taught in religion at the same time as the norse creation myth and other similar stories.

then the children can decide...

 

[yourgraceisenough]

I would agree that intelligent design could be taught in religion at the same time as the norse creation myth and other similar stories.

then the children can decide...

hahaha so you wouldn't consider intelligent design a potential explanation for who things developed on the Earth, what a surprise....

 

[johnhanks]

yet your fine with a teacher who accepts evolution brainwashing kids in to accepting that as fact...

You must have a very low opinion of kids and their critical faculties if you think simply telling them evolution is a fact is going to 'brainwash' them into accepting it. Believe me, the first thing they want to see is the evidence, and it's got to be convincing.

And no, intelligent design does not belong in science classes. It has neither an evidence base nor explanatory power.

 

[yourgraceisenough]

You must have a very low opinion of kids and their critical faculties if you think simply telling them evolution is a fact is going to 'brainwash' them into accepting it. Believe me, the first thing they want to see is the evidence, and it's got to be convincing.

And no, intelligent design does not belong in science classes. It has neither an evidence base nor explanatory power.

I think kids would ask for evidence and evolution would spin its usual web of half truths and guesses...

intelligent design should be taught as a valid theory for life on this planet..

 

[Photonic]

I think kids would ask for evidence and evolution would spin its usual web of half truths and guesses...

intelligent design should be taught as a valid theory for life on this planet..

Anyone else find this hilarious?

 

[yourgraceisenough]

Anyone else find this hilarious?

obviously not...

 

[outhouse]

Anyone else find this hilarious?

no sad and pathetic really