"The Graveyard of the Gods"

[Sees]

Read through maybe half the posts, hope this isn't repetitive.

To me this is on the level of claiming the things spoken of in ancient, extinct languages died along with the languages. The reasoning is extremely poor and quite silly.

Young kids who know very little of life using second-hand strawman attacks and nothing more. It's beneath both theists and non-theists...basically just youthful, arrogant mockery. Only folks on a similar level of comprehension would take it seriously or think it valid, in my opinion.

The saving grace for being noteworthy at all is their extension beyond the typical strawmanning limited to Abrahamic religions.

 

[Quintessence]

The point is those gods used to be endorsed and worshipped by the whole society, just like God is now in the US and some other highly Christian countries, and Allah in the Islamic world.

It's my understanding that Paganisms were not that homogenous. In other words, there really wasn't a set of gods that was endorsed and worshiped by a whole society; gods were local and worshiped on a local basis. I think we have to be very careful about comparing Pagan, polytheistic societies and non-Pagan, monotheistic ones.

 

[Infinitum]

It's my understanding that Paganisms were not that homogenous. In other words, there really wasn't a set of gods that was endorsed and worshiped by a whole society; gods were local and worshiped on a local basis. I think we have to be very careful about comparing Pagan, polytheistic societies and non-Pagan, monotheistic ones.

That's true, but I'd say societies in general were smaller at that time -- depending on the area and era of course.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think it's fair to say that the gods are dead, and that the ones we worship today are their children and grandchildren. In many cases of Pagan belief we have lost a connection to the direct source and must rely on reconstructions made from second hand sources. You can't today walk up to an Athenian and ask them about the Eleusinian Mysteries. There are no yearly public festivals on the Parthenon anymore, they're private gatherings of a handful of the faithful. We have lost a lot of the culture involved in these beliefs and I think most of us agree it's a thing to grieve over.

However, for as much as has been lost, nearly as much has survived, even if under a different guise. Many of the Old Gods are still popular, even if under the guise of a Hero.

The role that culture plays with religion is often understated, it seems to me. While the exact folktales were lost (though they also likely changed and shifted rapidly in areas that lacked writing, anyway), May Pole dancing is still popular in Europe (and was in the US until the 50s and 60s), most of our holidays are Pagan-based, and virtually all of our fairy tales and popular stories ultimately derive from the Old Ways.

The Greeks had writing, and so their religion was likely fairly consistent through the centuries, but for the Northern Folk who lacked writing, the Suebi the Romans encountered probably had folktales that would have been just barely recognizable to the Saxons invading Britain ~500 years later.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think it's fair to say that the gods are dead, and that the ones we worship today are their children and grandchildren. In many cases of Pagan belief we have lost a connection to the direct source and must rely on reconstructions made from second hand sources. You can't today walk up to an Athenian and ask them about the Eleusinian Mysteries. There are no yearly public festivals on the Parthenon anymore, they're private gatherings of a handful of the faithful. We have lost a lot of the culture involved in these beliefs and I think most of us agree it's a thing to grieve over.

The point is those gods used to be endorsed and worshipped by the whole society, just like God is now in the US and some other highly Christian countries, and Allah in the Islamic world. As the text in the blog says, entire civilizations are now attached to these gods, but there were others before them who were believed to be just as eternal as Allah is deemed eternal today. Sooner or later God will die. In fact some, like the atheists, could argue he's already started dying.

That only matters if you think gods can die and you judge the "health" of a god by how widespread their worship is. I think that's a faulty way of looking at it. Yes, we've lost a lot and so we do not worship the Gods in the same manner that the ancients did but even during those times, the worship was not the same everywhere. The Gods have always been multifaceted.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

Belief in the gods in some way persisted all through medieval Europe among peasantry, and even some nobles, who sometimes claimed descent from a specific deity.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

The house of Luxembourg claimed descent from Melusina, a water goddess, and if you visit Luxembourg today its still talked of.

 

[Iti oj]

God seems to be favored over humanity to many theists. Although I am a theist, I think depending on God instead of humanity, or putting faith in God but not humanity, is self destructive and we are on the verge of destroying ourselves. If we hadn't already...

I've been.think.this a lot lately

 

[Glaurung]

So what?

I don't get why people can't do things insulting to pagans if said pagans insist that Catholics are wrong to oppose a public black mass. It's just a tad hypocritical to talk about offence when suddenly the antics of some atheists start to fall onto your own lawn.

I'd ignore it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So what?

I don't get why people can't do things insulting to pagans if said pagans insist that Catholics are wrong to oppose a public black mass. It's just a tad hypocritical to talk about offence when antics of atheists hit your house.

Those Catholics were trying to get the event cancelled. I didn't say anything about cancelling it or censoring it.

 

[Glaurung]

Those Catholics were trying to get the event cancelled. I didn't say anything about cancelling it or censoring it.

And they'd be wrong to cancel the event I agree, but they were not wrong with their offence at a ritual intended to mock Catholicism in the most profound of ways.

The context for my post is that when you posted the article concerning the black mass, I followed the conversion to a pagan board where the graveyard was brought up. As much as I understand their offence, to then insist that Christians have no right to be offended at public mockings of their faith is the most obnoxious kind of hypocrisy possible. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Desert Snake]

I find it odd. Whats the point. Whatever.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

And they'd be wrong to cancel the event I agree, but they were not wrong with their offence at a ritual intended to mock Catholicism in the most profound of ways.

The context for my post is that when you posted the article concerning the black mass, I followed the conversion to a pagan board where the graveyard was brought up. As much as I understand their offence, to then insist that Christians have no right to be offended at public mockings of their faith is the most obnoxious kind of hypocrisy possible. You can't have it both ways.

And they have a right to be offended. One of the points of a Black Mass is to offend.

I think if a group set a display like this in my area, I would either ignore it or write them a letter explaining how it's incorrect and how it comes off as a celebration of cultural destruction. But I wouldn't go and make a big deal out of it by protesting and carrying on. That's just silly.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That only matters if you think gods can die and you judge the "health" of a god by how widespread their worship is. I think that's a faulty way of looking at it. Yes, we've lost a lot and so we do not worship the Gods in the same manner that the ancients did but even during those times, the worship was not the same everywhere. The Gods have always been multifaceted.

To someone who doesn't believe in a literal God(s) the concept of a God dying is a nonsense. It's shorthand, perhaps, but an atheist isn't ever referring to a God dying...they're referring to belief in a God dying. To a religion dying.

To someone who does literally believe in a God(s), the concept of a God dying is probably a nonsense as well. The God would most likely be eternal, regardless of belief or non-belief. Again, the concept of a God dying is a nonsense.

I really don't think anyone is talking about the death of Gods, to be honest.

 

[Father Heathen]

You may have a small handful of people who've incorporated bits and pieces of dead religions based on their discernment from limited sources through a modern lens, but I don't think it could be considered an actual revival and continuation of these religions and cultures as they were millenia ago.

 

[Riverwolf]

You may have a small handful of people who've incorporated bits and pieces of dead religions based on their discernment from limited sources through a modern lens, but I don't think it could be considered an actual revival and continuation of these religions and cultures as they were millenia ago.

Nor do I think it should be. It's a revival of those religions into their cultural descendent.

There's a distinct difference between revivalism and reconstructionism.

 

[Quintessence]

Nor do I think it should be. It's a revival of those religions into their cultural descendent.

There's a distinct difference between revivalism and reconstructionism.

How would you describe that difference? I ask because it is rare that I see contemporary Pagans consider their practices to be "as they were" even among reconstructionists. It's understood that the cultural contexts simply don't exist anymore. The aim is to make it in some sense contemporary hence the Neo prefix frequently applied to contemporary Paganisms.

 

[Father Heathen]

So for what reason then should neo-pagans find offense with this silly thing?

 

[Sees]

I take small, momentary offense because it is a misplaced, unnecessary mockery, in my opinion. Gods and traditions that it takes a little shot at aren't a threat or inconvenience for them. They are simply used for grandstanding to promote their own worldview and agenda. It's petty and encourages stupidity.

So for what reason then should neo-pagans find offense with this silly thing?

 

[Draupadi]

I blame the media too for this too. Pagan Deities are for the 'different' individuals, superstitious people or are aliens from another dimension.