The Great Deception of Christianity - Departing the Faith (the Word)

[3rdAngel]

WHO ARE THE BEASTS OF REVELATION 13?

REVELATION 13:16-17 "And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name".

It is very important that we understand who the beasts of revelations 13 and 14 are in order not to receive the Mark of the Beast!

Revelations 13 describes two beasts. The first beast and a second beast. The second beast which gives power to the first beast to force its mark on all the people of the world (Rev 13:15-17). As identified earlier according to God's Word;

BEAST = KINGDOM, NATION, POLITICAL POWER (Daniel 7:17, 23 and Prov 28:15)
HORN = Also is a KINGDOM, NATION, POLITICAL POWER (Daniel 7:24; 8:5, 21, 22; Zechariah 1:18-19, Rev. 17:12)

The little HORN (Dan 7:8, 20-25), BABYLON the Great WHORE and Mother of Harlots (Rev 14:8, 17:1-5 and 18:1-4) I believe was identified as the Roman Catholic Church. The Vatican City state is the smallest nation or country in the world today and is an absolute monarchy with the Pope as it's head. It also has the largest number of embassies and diplomats around the world to all countries. The Vatican mints its own euros, prints its own stamps, issues passports and license plates, operates media outlets and has its own flag and anthem

The first Beast of Revelations has many of the same features as the little Horn and the Great Whore of Babylon.
[GALLERY=media, 9223]First beast of Revelation 13 and Daniel's little horn - Roman Catholic Church by 3rdAngel posted Feb 15, 2020 at 8:14 AM[/GALLERY]

The first Beast of Revelations 13 is the same power described as the fallen Great Whore of Babylon = THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH! The different descriptions of the beast, the great whore and mother of harlots and Babylon are used to highlight phases or characteristics of the Roman Catholic Church (the mother of the Protestant Churches).

In Revelation Chapter 13 two beasts are brought to view. These represent two kingdoms. The first beast, as previously shown, represents the the Roman Catholic Church. The second beast causes all that dwell upon the earth to worship the first beast, and in so doing they receive the mark of the Beast.

"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads" (Revelation 13:15-16).

Again, by applying the Biblical definitions to the symbols employed in this great prophecy, we can unravel its mysteries. The core symbols are beasts, heads, horns, sea, dragon, and earth. A beast represents a king or a kingdom (Daniel 7:17). The two beasts of Revelation 13 thus represent two kingdoms or political powers that dominate world events in the last days. The first beast (Catholic Church) arose out of the sea. Revelation 17:15 tells us that the sea represents “peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.” Therefore the first beast arose from inhabited nations. In contrast, the second beast arises out of the earth, which represents the opposite of nations, multitudes, and kingdoms. Therefore, the second beast must arise in areas of the world where nations, multitudes, and kings were not established (uninhabited territory Rev 13:11).

The mark of the Beast will be enforced by the image of the Beast (Rev 13:15-16). An image is something that has the attributes of the original. The first beast of Revelation 13 (Roman Catholic Church) was a power that utilized state resources and religious and political power in order to enforce its doctrines, even when these doctrines were contrary to the Word of God.

According to Revelation 13, the second beast, = UNITED STATED OF AMERICA.

I believe that the USA will exercise the same authority as the first beast of Revelations 13 (the Roman Catholic Church) and cause the world to worship the papal system (Revelation 13:12). We are told in Revelation that the USA will also actively encourage the world to make “an image to the beast.” With its political and perhaps military might, the USA in co-operation with the United Nations and European Union will bring this image of the Beast to life and cause it to speak and declare a death decree against all those that would not comply with its regulations. A specific mark, belonging to the first beast, (hence the name, mark of the Beast) will be used to mark those that cooperate with the image of the Beast. Only those with the mark will have permission to conduct business and buy and sell. (more information Beast 1 & Beast 2).

FIRST BEAST = ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND BEAST = UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Together these two powers will cause all the inhabitants of the earth to receive the Mark of the Beast!

We must make it very clear that God has his people in all Churches. It is not the people but the system of religion or teachings of these religions that lead others away from Jesus that God hates and NOT the people. God has many true followers in all Churches and is seeking to call them out of man-made tradition to worship God in Spirit and in truth. This is the purpose of the 4th Angels message (Rev 18:1-5).
[GALLERY=media, 9234]Roman Catholic Church - Vatican by 3rdAngel posted Feb 18, 2020 at 6:38 AM[/GALLERY]
[GALLERY=media, 9235]Image to the Beast - Washington DC by 3rdAngel posted Feb 18, 2020 at 6:39 AM[/GALLERY]

 

[McBell]

Please read the OP. Your making things up no one has said. This is simply sad for you

For all your drama, fancy formatting, hand waving, hooting and hollering, once you strip all the fluff and window dressing from your attack, all you are left with is "I interpret the Bible differently and thus declare you wrong".

I understand that you cannot fathom how anyone can read your vicious empty attack and not be swept away by your brilliance, but the fact remains, most are not.

 

[3rdAngel]

For all your drama, fancy formatting, hand waving, hooting and hollering, once you strip all the fluff and window dressing from your attack, all you are left with is "I interpret the Bible differently and thus declare you wrong".

I understand that you cannot fathom how anyone can read your vicious empty attack and not be swept away by your brilliance, but the fact remains, most are not.

Hmmm Sorry did you say something? Please let's talk more when you have something to share in relation to the OP. Until then we will have to agree to disagree as there is no truth in your post here and it only shows you have not read anything in the OP.

 

[Iymus]

1. Antioch had a very strong Gospel presence; Yet we were first called Christians in Rome or the Main Church was built Rome?

According to Roman Catholics this is the case however:

Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.


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2. Did Peter even visit Rome?

The Apostle Peter in Rome

Excerpts:

Interestingly, the Bible says nothing about Peter ever traveling to Rome. When the gospels end, Peter is in Jerusalem.

In short, there is no early textual evidence for Peter in Rome, so for some people, it’s very hard to believe that he ever traveled there.

The absence of connection between Peter and Rome in the New Testament, the lack of references to him in our earliest Roman Christian literature, and what we know of Peter’s background and character all combine to make it unlikely, to my mind, that he ever went to Rome.
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[3rdAngel]

MARK OF THE BEAST WHAT IS IT?

WHAT ARE THE SYMBOLS AND MEANING OF MARK, SIGN AND SEAL?

JESUS when quoting the two great commentments of LOVE to GOD and LOVE to man from Matthew 22:26-40 is quoting from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures found in DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and LEVITICUS 19:18 and finishes by saying v40 "ON THESE TWO COMMENTMENTS OF LOVE to GOD and LOVE to MAN HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

If we go bact to DEUTERONOMY 6:5-8 we find somthing interesting in v8..

DEUTERONOMY 6:5-8 [5], And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6, And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 7, And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shall talk of them when thou sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when thou rises up. 8, And you shall bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as front lets between thine eyes.

NOTE: v8 has an interesting parallel with REVELATION 13:16:17 and

REVELATION 14:9-10 [9], And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, [10], The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb

Looking at the HEBREW word for sign in DEUTERONOMY 6:8 actually means MARK making it similar to the scriptures on the MARK OF THE BEAST in REVELATIONS 13 and 14 which are also received in the hand and forehead.

The Hebrew word for “sign” is Strong's H226 אות'ôth; oth; which also means Mark. The first four commandments of the 10 commandments represent our Love duty to God (Exodus 20:1-11) and how we worship him. Did you notice where love and obedience to God is a sign or mark of worship through love to God which is bound to the hand and between the frontlets of our eyes?

Let's look at the Hebrew words "frontlets" (H2903) and "between thine eyes" (H5869)"frontlets" (H2903) טופפה; ṭôphâphâh; to-faw-faw' means; to bind ; in the forehead "between thine eyes" (H5869) עין; ‛ayin; ah'-yin; means (many meanings but some mean) to think about, favour, to see, sight, knowledge

So verse 8 is talking about summing up the first 4 commandments of the 10 which is our love and duty of worship to God as being the "Mark of God" which is placed where? In the forehead and in the hand..... The same scriptures in

Deuteronomy 6 can be read as; Love the Lord thy God with all thine heart and with all thy soul and with all thy might (seen as the first four commandment to God (Exodus 20:1-11) 8, And you shall bind them for a “Mark” upon thine hand, and forehead. This is the Mark of God. God’s Mark is Love with the fruit of obedience. To love him with all the heart and have no other God’s before him, love will not make idols of anything on earth and serve them, love will not use God’s name in vain and love will remember God’s Sabbath day to keep it Holy. These are the Mark of Sign of the believers of those who follow God.

Now let’s compare this with …. (SIGN= MARK=SEAL mean the same)

EZEKIEL 20:11-12
[11], And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12, Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a SIGN <H226; same word for “MARK”> between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

So in our duty to Love God as demonstrated in Deuteronomy 6:5-8 and demonstrated through obedience to the first four commandments (Exodus 20:1-11), God’s Mark is bound to his people on their hand and forehead showing that His people believe and worship the only true God of creation of which the 7th Day Sabbath is also a sign or “Mark”. We should be clear here that the only commandments from God’s Law that God describes as being his SIGN or “MARK” is in our duty of worship and love to the creator.This links back to REVELATIONS 14:7-12 where we read the MARK OF THE BEAST IS LINKED TO WORSHIP.

God’s people marked or sealed for protection…

EZEKIEL 9:1-11
[1] He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.
[2] And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
[3] And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
[4] And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
[5] And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
[6] Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
[7] And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
[8] And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?
[9] Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.
[10] And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.
[11] And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

Now remember the Beast of Revelations also has a mark that we are warned against receiving? (Revelation 13:16; 14:8:11). This is called the “MARK OF THE BEAST”. Anyone who receives this mark is in danger of receiving the judgements of God. We are warned not to receive this mark because it will affect our salvation and standing with God.

God’s people receive God’s mark of protection in the last days…

REVELATION 7:4-10
4, And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5, Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6, Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7, Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8, Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
9, After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10, And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

TO BE CONTINUED...

 

[3rdAngel]

The SEAL= GOD'S MARK

Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew & Thayer Greek Definitions - G4972
Σφραγίζω; sphragizō Thayer Definition:
1) to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
1a) for security: from Satan
1b) since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret
1c) in order to mark a person or a thing
1c1) to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp
1c2) angels are said to be sealed by God
1d) in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing
1d1) to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt
1d1a) of a written document
1d1b) to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4972
Σφραγίζω; sphragizō; sfrag-id'-zo From G4973; to stamp with a signet or private mark for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication to keep secret, to attest: - (set a, set to) seal up, stop.

Now lets tie the above into the GREEK Word used in MARK OF THE BEAST from REVELATION 13:16 and 14:11…

REVELATION 13:16 And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads

Now let’s add the GREEK word used for “MARK” *REVELATION 14:11; 13: χάραγμα charagma From the same as G5482; a scratch or etching, that is, stamp as a badge of servitude, or sculptured figure (statue): - graven, mark.

So there is God's Mark which is a SIGN of Love and obedience and worship to God and a BEASTS MARK as a sign of servitude to the beast that we are warned against receiving or we will receive God's Judgements (Revelations 14:8-11). This warning not to receive the Beasts Mark is proceeded with the warning that Babylon the great, also identified as the great whore that sits on the beast, is fallen with a call for God's People to come out of her (Revelations 14:8). The call to come out of Babylon is then once again repeated in Revelation 18:1-10 but this time Babylon is described in more detail in Revelations 17:1-7; 18:1-10

So it is important to understand who Babylon is because it has a connection to the beast and its Mark that we are warned against receiving (Revelations 14:8-11; 17:1-18) and God is calling his people out before it receives his judgements.

There is actually a lot to take in here but letting the bible interpret itself let’s see what God’s Word says the following symbols represent?

SOME SYMBOLS DEFINED IN GOD'S WORD SO FAR.

*WOMAN PURE = God's people faithful (Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27)
*WOMAN WHORE = God's people unfaithful to God fornicator, adulteress, unfaithful or false religion (Isaiah 1:21-27; Jeremiah 3:1-3; 6-9; Ezekiel 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hosea 2:5; 3:1; Revelations 14:4)
*MOTHER OF HARLOTS = Gives birth to unfaithful or false religion offspring and children just like the Mother
*BEAST = Kingdom; Nations or political power (Daniel 7:17; 23; Proverbs 28:15)
*HORN OF A BEAST= A king or ruler that arise out of the Kingdom; Nations or political power (Daniel 7:24; 8:5; 21-22; Zechariah 1:18-19; Revelations 17:12)
*SCARLET COLOR = sin (Isaiah 1:18)
*HAND = To act out or to do action (Ecclesiastes 9:10; Acts 4:28 etc)
*FOREHAND = To believe or think (Ezekiel 3:8-9; Jeremiah 3:3 see also word meanings)
*MARK/SEAL/SIGN = is BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD or NOT BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's WORD (Revelation 14:7-12; 7:4-10
Deuteronomy 6:8; Ezekiel 20:11-12; Ezekiel 9:1-11)

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Let's put it all together.....

I believe Babylon the Great mother Whore = the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH and her daughter represent apostate PROTESTANTISM that that has become unfaithful to God or does not follow God’s Word.

It is a mother of harlots meaning other unfaithful Churches have come out of this mother of Churches. Let’s make something clear before we continue. God has his people in every Church, even the unfaithful fallen Churches as seen in Revelations 18:4. He is calling them to come out of these Churches because they are not teaching people to follow God’s Word. Jesus also says; Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd (John 10:16). Because the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:23-24)

God's Mark is a mark of love and worship to God seen as the fruit of obedience to Gods Law *REVELATION 14:12. It is applied to the hand and the forehead representing believing and doing. It is sin that is disobedience to God’s Word and it is sin and nothing more that all to receive God’s judgements.

The beast which represents a nation or kingdom will have power to make laws under punishment of death to force all to break God’s Law. This is the ONLY time anyone can receive the MARK OF THE BEAST when it is forced upon mankind under law.

We receive it in the hand by following or doing the beast’s law or we receive it in the forehead by believing and following this law over the Word of God or breaking God’s Law (Revelation 13:15-16). Everyone has the choice to choose for themselves whether they receive this mark or not and those that do follow the beast, receive the judgements of God (Revelation 14:9-11).

The beast (KINGDOM) is seen being ridden by a harlot Woman (unfaithful, mother of Christian Churches) also called Babylon that God has some of his people in who are warned to come out of unless of these organisations unless they receive the plague of God (Revelations 18:4).

All through time from Genesis to Revelations God's judgements have only ever been given to mankind because of sin. As it was in the days of Noah and Sodom so shall it be at the coming of the son of man. Sin is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death which is the penalty of sin (1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23). Therefore just as the Mark of God in the hand and forehead represents love and worship to God seen as the fruit of obedience to Gods Law (10 commandments), the Mark of the beast will be over forced disobedience to God's Law of Love. The Mark of the beast does not affect anyone until it is forced upon mankind by the beast (Revelations 13:15-18). However, if we are living in sin now we are not following God or know him and need to repent and seek him for forgiveness through faith in His Word.

After the warning about receiving the mark of the beast is proclaimed a description of God’s people is proclaimed…

REVELATION 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Further descriptions of God’s people are also described throughout the book of Revelations….

REVELATION 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

REVELATION 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

God’s people keep all of God’s commandments through faith in his promises to save them from their sins. He gives them his Spirit so that they can follow him in love and obedience. God’s Word say that if we break one of God’s commandments we are guilty before God of breaking all of His Law (James 2:8-12).

This includes the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is God's 4th Commandment that God has commanded his people to follow which is one of the 10 (Exodus 20:8-11)

Just as God’s Mark or sign to His people is demonstrated through worship and love to him through the first four commandments. The Mark of the Beast will be loyalty to the beast through breaking God’s Law which is sin against God. Those that follow the Beast do not follow God and will be in danger of receiving God’s judgements.

Those that receive the Mark of the Beast are those that through disobedience and living in sin do not know God and refuse his love and invitation of Grace and salvation…

Who will you choose?

 

[3rdAngel]

WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND WHEN DO PEOPLE RECEIVE IT?

SUMMARY SO FAR AND PUTTING IT TOGETHER

We have looked at and ideitified who the HARLOT WOMAN sitting on the scarlet colored BEAST is and let the scriptures define these symbols which the bible alone says that the MYSTERY HARLOT NAMED BABYLON represents the UNFAITHFUL MOTHER CHURCH of all Churches which also has UNFAITHFUL DAUGHTER CHURCHES * REVELATION 14:8; 17:1-5; 18:1-10. We have also seen through God’s WORD that it is NOT the people in these CHURCHES that God are the problem but what they teach the people which leads them away from God’s Word and that God has his people in ALL of these Churches and is calling them out to worship him in Spirit and in TRUTH according to the Word of God *REVELATION 18:1:4. We also saw that a BEAST in bible prophecy represents a KINGDOM while a HORN on a BEAST represents a KING that may come out of that KINGDOM *DANIEL 7:23-25

We also looked the HEBREW and GREEK meanings of MARK; SEAL and SIGN and compared these word meanings with the scriptures found in REVELATION 13:6; REVELATION 7:4-10; DEUTERONOMY 6:8; EZEKIEL 9:1-11; EXEKIEL 20:11-12; All of which liked the SERVITUDE of OBEDIENCE to God’s 10 Commandments to God’s SEAL; SIGN and MARK (which all have a similar meaning) or SERVITUDE to DISOBEDIENCE to God’s Commandments. *REVELATION 14:8-12. As the MARK is a symbol of SERVITUDE to God’s WORD and OBEDIENCE or SERVITUDE to the BEAST and DISOBEDIENCE we saw that RECEIVING the BEASTS MARK of DISOBEDIENCE in the HAND or the FOREHEAD means; *HAND = To act out or to do action (Ecclesiastes 9:10; Acts 4:28 etc) *FOREHAND = To believe or think (EZEKIEL 3:8-9; JEREMIAH 3:3 see also word meanings).

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CONCLUSION: I believe the MARK OF THE BEAST is a SYMBOL OF SERVITUDE to the BEAST of REVELATION 13 and REVELATION 14; REVELATION 17 and REVELATION 18 which is influenced by the MOTHER OF ALL UNFAITHFUL CHURCHES names BABYLON THE MAOTHER OF HARLOTS *REVELATION 17:1-5.

This MARK is received in the HAND which means to act out and do what the BEAST commands in WORSHIPPING the BEASTS image (you do not have to believe the BEAST), while to receive the MARK in the FOREHEAD means to BELIEVE and do what the BEAST commands *REVELATION 13:15-16.

I believe those who are SEALED by GOD serve him through OBEDIENCE and SERVITUDE to God’s WORD *REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14. They do not bow down to the BEASTS FALSE IMAGE of WORSHIP and before the final judgments of God are poured out GOD calls all his true people to leave these CHURCHES to whorship and follow him in Spirit and in Truth.

I believe that the MARK OF THE BEAST AND THE SEAL OF GOD is received over SERVITUDE doing what the BEAST asks resulting in DISOBEDIENCE to God’s WORD or BELIEVING and FOLLOWING what God asks us through his WORD and disobeying what the BEAST asks us. The issue will be over WORSHIP. Who do we worship, God by believing and following his WORD or the BEAST by following the teaching and traditions of men that lead us away from God to break his Commandments *REVELATION 13:8; 13:12; 13:15; 14:7; 14:11; MATTHEW 15:3-9

The issue of worship is over God’s 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172

This results in a people of GOD who keep ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of God by faith in God’s WORD. REVELATION 22:9; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14. The issue is over OBEDIENCE and DISOBEDIENCE.

No one has received the MARK OF THE BEAST until it become ENFORCED UNDER CIVIL LAW *REVELATION 13:16-17. The issue will be over worship *REVELATION 13:8; 13:12; 13:15; 14:7; 14:11; MATTHEW 15:3-9. Do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD and keep ALL THE COMMANDMETNS of GOD *REVELATION 22:9; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14 or do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW the MOTHER OF HARLOTS *The MOTHER of all UNFAITHFUL CHURCHES, and RECEIVE the MARK of the BEAST? Which will you choose?

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SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

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I believe God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to UNKNOWINGLY break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

I believe there is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[3rdAngel]

THE MARK OF THE BEAST IS OVER WORSHIP

REVELATION 14:7, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

NOTE: This scripture is not only about announcing God’s judgment where the standard in the judgment will be God’s Commandments, it is a direct call to worship God as the creator. How do we worship the creator?

God’s 4th Commandment says;

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT

Why does God’s 4th commandment start off to REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY? God knew that mankind would forsake it to follow the man-made teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. Even in Paul’s day the mystery of iniquity was already at work *2 THESSALONIANS 2:5-8; ACTS 20:29-30 who will think to change times and laws

DANIEL 7:25 [25], And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

I believe the MARK OF THE BEAST is over worship. Let's look at the scriptures...

REVELATION 13:8
[8], And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

REVELATION 13:12-16;
[12], And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them who dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[13], And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[14], And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, that had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[15], And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16], And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads

REVELATION 14:7-12.
[7], Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment has come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
[8], And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
[9], And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10], The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out undiluted into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11], And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.
[12], Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

God’s 4th COMMANDMENT is one of the 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

I believe according to the scriptures that if we KNOWINGLY break any one of God’s 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. God’s 4th Commandment is the ONLY commandment that is a MEMORIAL of creation and a call to worship GOD as the creator of heaven and earth. Nearly all mankind has forgotten God’s 4th commandment.

There is not one scripture in all of God’s WORD that says God’s 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY day.

…………….

CONCLUSION: I believe God’s commandments are the standard of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; PSALMS 119:172. The whole world has neglected God’s 4th Commandment despite there being not a single scripture for it’s change. We are to whoship God as the creator of heaven and earth. This is a call back to REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY. God’s 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments. If we KNOWINGLY break it just like any of the other commandments we commit sin and sin will keep all those who KNOWINGLY practice it out of God’s KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; HEBREWS 6:4-8; JAMES 2:10-11.
[GALLERY=media, 9236]Mark Of The Beast by 3rdAngel posted Feb 18, 2020 at 8:49 AM[/GALLERY]

 

[3rdAngel]

QUOTES FROM THE REFORMERS ABOUT THE POPE AND THE PAPACY

Nicolaus Von Amsdorf (1483 - 1565)
"He (the antichrist) will be revealed and come to naught before the last day, so that every man shall comprehend and recognize that the pope is the real, true antichrist and not the vicar of Christ ... Therefore those who consider the pope and his bishops as Christian shepherds and bishops are deeply in error, but even more are those who believe the the Turk (ISLAM) is the antichrist. Because the Turk (ISLAM) rules outside of the church and does not sit in the holy place, nor does he seek to bear the name of Christ, but is an open antagonist of Christ and His church. This does not need to be revealed, but it is clear and evident because he persecutes Christians openly and not as the pope does, secretly under the form of Godliness." (Nicolaus Von Amsdorf, Furnemliche und gewisse Zeichen, sig.A2r.,v.)

Martin Luther (1483 - 1546)
"nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist. For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny." (Martin Luther, First Principles, pp. 196-197)

Flacius (1570)
"The sixth and last reason for our separation from the pope and his followers be this; By many writings of our church, by the Divinely inspired Word, by prophecies concerning the future and by the special characteristics of the Papacy, it has been profusely and thoroughly proved that the pope with his prelates and clergy is the real true great antichrist, that his kingdom is the real Babylon, a never ceasing fountain and a mother of all abominable idolatry." (Flacius, Etliche Hochwichtige Ursachen und Grunde, warum das siche alle Christen von dem Antichrist ... absondern sollen)

Georg Nigrinus (1530 - 1602)
"The Jesuits claim to be sorely offended and have taken my declarations as an insult and blasphemy in branding the Papacy as the antichrist of which Daniel, Paul, Peter, John and even Christ prophesied. But this is as true as it is that Jesus is the Messiah, and I am prepared to show it even by their own definition of the word 'antichrist'." (Translated from "Nigrinus, Antichrists Grundliche Offenbarung" fol. 6v.)

"This Jesuit further contends that the Papacy cannot be antichrist because the Papacy has lasted for centuries, but that the antichrist is supposed to reign only for 3 1/2 years ... But no one doubts today that Daniel spoke of YEAR-DAYS, not literal days ... The prophetic time-periods of forty-two months, 1260 days, 1, 2, 1/2 times are prophetic, and according to Ezekiel 4, a day must be taken for a year." (Translated from "Nigrinus, Antichrists Grundliche Offenbarung" fols.28v. 29r.)

John Calvin (1509 - 1564)
"Though it be admitted that Rome was once the mother of all Churches, yet from the time when it began to be the seat of Antichrist it has ceased to be what it was before. Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman Pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt .. I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." (Institutes of the Christian Religion, Vol.3, p.149)

John Knox (1505 - 1572)
Yea, to speak it in plain words; lest that we submit ourselves to Satan, thinking that we submit ourselves to Jesus Christ, for, as for your Roman kirk, as it is now corrupted, and the authority thereof, whereon stands the hope of your victory, I no more doubt but that it is the synagogue of Satan, and the head thereof, called the pope, to be that man of sin, of whom the apostle speaks." (John Knox, The History of the Reformation of Religion in Scotland, p.65)

Thomas Cranmer (1489 - 1556)
"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of Antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Works by Cranmer, vol.1, pp.6-7)

Roger Williams (1603 - 1683)
Pastor Williams spoke of the Pope as "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vassals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to change times and laws; but he is the son of perdition." (The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers by Froom, Vol. 3, pg. 52)

The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)
"The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ." (1689 Baptist Confession of Faith)

The Westminster Confession of Faith (1646)
"There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ: nor can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition, that exalts himself in the Church against Christ, and all that is called God." (1646 Westminster Confession of Faith)

John Wesley (1703 - 1791)
"... In many respects, the Pope has an indisputable claim to those titles. He is, in an emphatical sense, the man of sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled, the son of perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers, destroyed innumerable souls, and will himself perish everlastingly. He it is that opposeth himself to the emperor, once his rightful sovereign; and that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped - Commanding angels, and putting kings under his feet, both of whom are called gods in scripture; claiming the highest power, the highest honour; suffering himself, not once only, to be styled God or vice-God. Indeed no less is implied in his ordinary title, "Most Holy Lord," or, "Most Holy Father." So that he sitteth - Enthroned. In the temple of God - Mentioned Rev. xi, 1. Declaring himself that he is God - Claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." (John Wesley, Explanatory Notes Upon The New Testament, p.216)

Charles Spurgeon (1834 - 1892)
"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. If there were to be issued a hue and cry for Antichrist, we should certainly take up this church on suspicion, and it would certainly not be let loose again, for it so exactly answers the description."

"Popery is contrary to Christ’s Gospel, and is the Antichrist, and we ought to pray against it. It should be the daily prayer of every believer that Antichrist might be hurled like a millstone into the flood and for Christ, because it wounds Christ, because it robs Christ of His glory, because it puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread into the place of the Saviour, and a few drops of water into the place of the Holy Ghost, and puts a mere fallible man like ourselves up as the vicar of Christ on earth; if we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors: we shall love their souls though we loath and detest their dogmas, and so the breath of our prayers will be sweetened, because we turn our faces towards Christ when we pray." (Michael de Semlyen, All Roads Lead to Rome)

Rev. J.A.Wylie (1808 - 1890)
"The same line of proof which establishes that Christ is the promised Messiah, conversely applied, establishes that the Roman system is the predicted Apostacy. In the life of Christ we behold the converse of what the Antichrist must be; and in the prophecy of the Antichrist we are shown the converse of what Christ must be, and was. And when we place the Papacy between the two, and compare it with each, we find, on the one hand, that it is the perfect converse of Christ as seen in his life; and on the other, that it is the perfect image of the Antichrist, as shown in the prophecy of him. We conclude, therefore, that if Jesus of Nazareth be the Christ, the Roman Papacy is the Antichrist." (J.A.Wylie, Preface to "The Papacy is the Antichrist, A Demonstration")

Ellen G. White (1827 - 1915)
"This compromise between paganism and Christianity resulted in the development of "the man of sin" foretold in prophecy as opposing and exalting himself above God. That gigantic system of false religion is a masterpiece of Satan's power - a monument of his efforts to seat himself upon the throne to rule the earth according to his will."

"To secure worldly gains and honors, the church was led to seek the favor and support of the great men of earth; and having thus rejected Christ, she was induced to yield allegiance to the representative of Satan - the bishop of Rome ... Prophecy had declared that the papacy was to "think to change times and laws. (Daniel 7:25)" (E.G.White, The Great Controversy, pp.49-51)

And Many More ...
You can see above what the reformers believed. And there were many more reformers who knew the truth that the pope was the leader of the antichrist church, including; William Tyndale, John Wycliffe, Philipp Melanchthon, Huldreich Zwingli, The Translators of the King James Bible, and so on.

 

[3rdAngel]

HISTORICAL INTERPRETATION OF THE ANTICHRIST, SHOWING THE REFORMERS BELIEVED THE ANTICHRIST WAS THE PAPACY. IN THEIR OWN WORDS

Eberhard II, archbishop of Salzburg (1200-1246), for example, set forth the teaching that the little horn of Daniel 7 was the Pope, that the Pope was a wolf in shepherd's garb, the Antichrist, the son of perdition. He did not look into the future for the coming of an unidentified individual called the Antichrist. Instead, he looked back over the centuries since Rome's dismemberment and saw in the historical Papacy, a system, or succession; the fulfilment of the prophecies concerning the Antichrist. He was excommunicated by the Pope and died under the ban in 1246. (Ibid., vol.1, p.798).

John Foxe, noted writer of 'Foxe's Book of Martyrs', gives a list of learned men between 1331 and 1360 who contended against the false claims of the Pope. One of these, Michael of Cesena, who had numerous followers, not a few of whom were slain, declared the Pope "to be the Antichrist, and the church of Rome to be the whore of Babylon, drunk with the blood of the saints." (Foxe, 'Acts and Movements', p.445).

John Wyclif (sometimes spelled Wycliffe), noted English Reformer, taught that the persecuting "little horn" of Daniel had found fulfilment in the Papacy which arose out of the fourth kingdom, Rome. "Why is it necessary in unbelief to look for another Antichrist?" he asked. "In the Seventh Chapter of Daniel, the Antichrist is forcefully described as a horn arising in the time of the fourth kingdom... wearing out the saints of the most high." (Froom, vol.2, p.445). His book, the 'Mirror of the Antichrist', is filled with references to the Pope as the Antichrist.

From the ministry of Wyclif sprang the English "Lollards" which numbered in the hundreds of thousands. We give their testimony in the words of one of them, Lord Cobham. When brought before King Henry V and admonished to submit to the Pope as an obedient child, Cobham replied: "As touching the Pope and his spirituality, I owe him neither suit nor service, forasmuch as I know him by the Scriptures to be the great Antichrist, the son of perdition." (Guinness, 'Romanism and the Reformation', p.134). This was a century before Luther.

Walter Brute, noted scholar, prophetic expositor, and associate of Wyclif, was accused in 1391 of oftentimes and commonly claiming that "the Pope is the Antichrist and a seducer of the people." (Foxe, Vol.1, p.543).

Sir John Oldcastle (1360-1417), famous Christian of Herefordshire, spoke of the Pope in these words: "I know him by the Scriptures to be the great Antichrist, the Son of perdition... Rome is the very nest of the Antichrist, and out of that nest come all the disciples of him." He was sentenced to death for naming the Antichrist. Though the sentence was not immediately carried out, in 1417 he was dragged to St. Giles, suspended in chains, and slowly burned to death as his voice ascended in praise to God. (Ibid., p.636-641).

John Huss (1369-1415), born in Bohemia, was a well educated man who came under the influence of Wyclif's writings which caused him to break with the church of Rome. He labelled the Pope as the Antichrist of which the Scriptures had warned. His writings constantly refer to the Antichrist as the enemy of the church - not as a Jew, a pagan, or a Turk - but as a false confessor of the name of Christ.

Pope Martin V issued a bull in 1418 in which he ordered the punishment of both men or women who held to the teachings of Wyclif and Huss. Sixty miles from Prague, on a steep mountain, the city of Tabor was built to which the "Hussites" could "flee from the Antichrist." ('The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers', vol.2, p.121).

Huss himself was condemned as a heretic and delivered to the secular arm for execution. Accompanied by a guard of 1,000 armed men and a vast crowd of spectators, he was led through the churchyard where he saw a bonfire of his books in the public square. As he knelt and prayed, his hands were tied behind him and a rusty chain wound round his neck. Straw and wood were piled around him. The name Huss meant "goose" in the Bohemian tongue and at the place of execution Huss reportedly said: "This day ye are burning a goose; but from my ashes will arise a swan, which ye will not be able to roast" - an expression later quoted by Luther. "Huss began to sing," writes Froom, "but the wind swept the flames into his face and silenced his words. Only his lips moved - until they too were stilled in death for his stand against the Antichrist of Bible prophecy." (Ibid., p.116).

Martin Luther (1483-1546), while still a priest of the Romish church, disagreed with the practice of selling indulgences. At first, he sought reform within the church. But as he grew in the knowledge of Christ, he saw that reform would be impossible and that the message was to"come out of her." Being loosened from the bondages of this system, he began to wonder if the Pope was the Antichrist. Eventually this belief became pronounced. His friends, fearing for his safety, begged him to suppress his book 'To the German Nobility'. To this he replied on August 18, 1520: "We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist... personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to the Antichrist." (Ibid., p.256). Two months later, in October 1520, Luther's book 'On the Babylonian Captivity of the Church' was published. In this he spoke of the Papacy (the system, not necessarily the individual Pope who then reigned) as "nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of the very Antichrist... For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the Church; while he yet sits in the Church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny." (Luther, 'First Principles', pp.196-197).

In 1540, Luther wrote: "Oh Christ, my Lord, look down upon us and bring upon us thy day of judgment, and destroy the brood of Satan in Rome. There sits the Man, of whom the apostle Paul wrote (2 THESSALONIANS 2:3-4) that he will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God - that man of Sin, that Son of Perdition... he suppresses the Law of God and exalts his commandments above the commandments of God." (Froom, Vol.2, p.281).

To Luther, the scriptures did not portray the Antichrist as an infidel, or a super-politician, but as he that would rise within the Church realm; that is, "in the midst of Christendom." Concerning the man of sin, he pointed out that he "sitteth not in a stable of fiends, or in a swine-sty, or in a company of infidels, but in the highest and holiest place of all, namely, in the temple of God." Further, he explains: "Is not this to sit in the temple of God, to profess himself to be the Ruler in the whole Church? What is the temple of God? Is it stones and wood? Did not Paul say, "the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are?" To sit - what is it but to reign, to teach, and to judge? Who from the beginning of the Church has dared to call himself master of the whole Church but the Pope alone? None of the saints, none of the heretics ever uttered so horrible a word of pride." (Luther, 'Works', vol.2, p.385).

It is evident that Luther did not believe the Antichrist would be some lone individual at the end of time, for he said: "The Antichrist of whom Paul speaks now reigns in the court of Rome." Martin Luther understood that the Papacy was the Antichrist of prophecy! As the Encyclopaedia Britannica says, "These ideas became the dynamic force which drove Luther on in his contest with the Papacy." (Vol.2, p.61, Article: 'The Antichrist').

Among other leaders with Luther in the Reformation in Germany was Andreas Oslander (1498-1552), who also took a stand against the Roman Antichrist who spoke words against God and who had seated himself in God's temple. His concept of the Antichrist was not limited to one individual man. He believed it was the Papal ecclesiastical system which rose with the fall of Rome and would extend until the end time. He felt that the Papal contention, that the Antichrist was some future person, had caused people to look ahead for a fictitious Antichrist and thus overlook the real Antichrist at Rome, who had already exerted his influence for centuries. (Froom, 'The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers', vol.2, pp.296-299).

To be continued...

 

[74x12]

Hi all,

I believe that the prophetic scriptures from the books of Daniel, Revelation and others in the old and new testaments teach that the majority of professed church's of today that make up Christianity have fallen away from believing and following God's Word in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God to depart God and his Word (the Faith).

I believe that these same scriptures teach that the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH (not the people, God has his true people in this Church and loves everyone of them) is MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT HARLOT MOTHER CHURCH that has committed fornication (unlawful union) with the kings of the earth and is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS which represent the PROTESTANT CHURCH’S that have departed God’s Word in order to follow the teachings and traditions of men (once again; not the people, God has his true people in this Church and loves everyone of them).

I believe that that above is a fulfillment of many scriptures from the prophetic book of DANIEL and REVELATION and the signs of the end foretold by JESUS in MATTHEW 24:24.

This OP, is not an attack on the people in these Church’s as God has his people in all of these Churchs and loves the people in all these Church’s. The hour has come however and now is, I believe according to the scriptures that God is calling his true followers were ever they may be to come out of these fallen Church’s to worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and they who worship Him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 10:16; JOHN 4:23. God is calling us wherever we may be back to follow him according to the pure Word of God alone! We will look at the detail I hope more and more throughout this thread.

Some questions for consideration in this OP (please prove your claims if you can) linked..

1. Have the Christian Church’s of the World fallen away from the pure Word of God?
2. Who is MYSTERY BABYLON and who is THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS?
3. Who are the HARLOT DAUGHTERS of MYSTERY BABYLON?
4. Who is the “LITTLE HORN of DANIEL 7 that speaks great things against God and wears out the saints of the most high and changes times and laws?
5. Who are the BEASTS of REVELATION 13?
6. Who is the man of sin, the Antichrist and what is the number of His name?
7. What is the Mark of the Beast we are warned against receiving in our forehead of hands (starts)?
8. What did the early reformer teach about the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church?
9. Who is God’s truth unfallen Church according to the scriptures?

Friendly conversations please. Remember this OP is not about the people in these Church’s, but the teachings of the fallen Church’s of Christianity that are no longer following God’s Word that I believe, God is calling his people out from, back to his Word.

Good that you say it's not about the people in these churches. Satan controls the world's organisations and groups from the top. Rome came under strong delusion so that they would believe a lie when they killed the early Christians. God gave them over to Satan and Rome has never changed her ways from the murderers that they were.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

"Great" cut & paste hate-filled bigotry. Sure glad my church doesn't do that.

Metis, the real mystery is why nobody seems able to figure out the simplest thing of all --- that the Bible can be read so very many ways, and so many of those ways contradict with one another in another variety of ways, makes it impossible that there should ever be true AGREEMENT among its readers about what it all means. The plain fact of the matter is that this single book has resulted in a bewildering array of denominations, sub-denominations and sects, as anybody can clearly see here: List of Christian denominations by number of members - Wikipedia

This simple fact -- all by itself and unaided by any other consideration -- should make it abundantly clear to everybody that the Bible is NOT (as claimed in the OP) "the Word of God."

(Or at least if it is, then God is clearly incompetent. I doubt many believers would really want to go there.)

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

For all your drama, fancy formatting, hand waving, hooting and hollering, once you strip all the fluff and window dressing from your attack, all you are left with is "I interpret the Bible differently and thus declare you wrong".

I understand that you cannot fathom how anyone can read your vicious empty attack and not be swept away by your brilliance, but the fact remains, most are not.

I am permitted only one "Winner" froob for this post, but let me just verbally add about 68 more.

 

[3rdAngel]

Metis, the real mystery is why nobody seems able to figure out the simplest thing of all --- that the Bible can be read so very many ways, and so many of those ways contradict with one another in another variety of ways, makes it impossible that there should ever be true AGREEMENT among its readers about what it all means. The plain fact of the matter is that this single book has resulted in a bewildering array of denominations, sub-denominations and sects, as anybody can clearly see here: List of Christian denominations by number of members - Wikipedia

This simple fact -- all by itself and unaided by any other consideration -- should make it abundantly clear to everybody that the Bible is NOT (as claimed in the OP) "the Word of God."

(Or at least if it is, then God is clearly incompetent. I doubt many believers would really want to go there.)

Actually I would claim the opposite of what your stating here and even use this same argument in relation to many Christian religions to support the bible's authenticity as being God's Word having done as much in post # 2 under the OP. As it is the very scriptures that have foretold these events before they even came to pass. Your other claims here I believe are simply answered by the scriptures that teach that the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned *1 CORINTHIANS 2:14. The scriptures interpret themselves but without God's guidence no one can know what they mean. That however does not mean that the truth of God's Word is not known by those who believe and follow His Word *JOHN 14:26.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

HISTORICAL INTERPRETATION OF THE ANTICHRIST, SHOWING THE REFORMERS BELIEVED THE ANTICHRIST WAS THE PAPACY. IN THEIR OWN WORDS

Eberhard II, archbishop of Salzburg (1200-1246), for example, set forth the teaching that the little horn of Daniel 7 was the Pope, that the Pope was a wolf in shepherd's garb, the Antichrist, the son of perdition. He did not look into the future for the coming of an unidentified individual called the Antichrist. Instead, he looked back over the centuries since Rome's dismemberment and saw in the historical Papacy, a system, or succession; the fulfilment of the prophecies concerning the Antichrist. He was excommunicated by the Pope and died under the ban in 1246. (Ibid., vol.1, p.798).

John Foxe, noted writer of 'Foxe's Book of Martyrs', gives a list of learned men between 1331 and 1360 who contended against the false claims of the Pope. One of these, Michael of Cesena, who had numerous followers, not a few of whom were slain, declared the Pope "to be the Antichrist, and the church of Rome to be the whore of Babylon, drunk with the blood of the saints." (Foxe, 'Acts and Movements', p.445).

John Wyclif (sometimes spelled Wycliffe), noted English Reformer, taught that the persecuting "little horn" of Daniel had found fulfilment in the Papacy which arose out of the fourth kingdom, Rome. "Why is it necessary in unbelief to look for another Antichrist?" he asked. "In the Seventh Chapter of Daniel, the Antichrist is forcefully described as a horn arising in the time of the fourth kingdom... wearing out the saints of the most high." (Froom, vol.2, p.445). His book, the 'Mirror of the Antichrist', is filled with references to the Pope as the Antichrist.

From the ministry of Wyclif sprang the English "Lollards" which numbered in the hundreds of thousands. We give their testimony in the words of one of them, Lord Cobham. When brought before King Henry V and admonished to submit to the Pope as an obedient child, Cobham replied: "As touching the Pope and his spirituality, I owe him neither suit nor service, forasmuch as I know him by the Scriptures to be the great Antichrist, the son of perdition." (Guinness, 'Romanism and the Reformation', p.134). This was a century before Luther.

Walter Brute, noted scholar, prophetic expositor, and associate of Wyclif, was accused in 1391 of oftentimes and commonly claiming that "the Pope is the Antichrist and a seducer of the people." (Foxe, Vol.1, p.543).

Sir John Oldcastle (1360-1417), famous Christian of Herefordshire, spoke of the Pope in these words: "I know him by the Scriptures to be the great Antichrist, the Son of perdition... Rome is the very nest of the Antichrist, and out of that nest come all the disciples of him." He was sentenced to death for naming the Antichrist. Though the sentence was not immediately carried out, in 1417 he was dragged to St. Giles, suspended in chains, and slowly burned to death as his voice ascended in praise to God. (Ibid., p.636-641).

John Huss (1369-1415), born in Bohemia, was a well educated man who came under the influence of Wyclif's writings which caused him to break with the church of Rome. He labelled the Pope as the Antichrist of which the Scriptures had warned. His writings constantly refer to the Antichrist as the enemy of the church - not as a Jew, a pagan, or a Turk - but as a false confessor of the name of Christ.

Pope Martin V issued a bull in 1418 in which he ordered the punishment of both men or women who held to the teachings of Wyclif and Huss. Sixty miles from Prague, on a steep mountain, the city of Tabor was built to which the "Hussites" could "flee from the Antichrist." ('The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers', vol.2, p.121).

Huss himself was condemned as a heretic and delivered to the secular arm for execution. Accompanied by a guard of 1,000 armed men and a vast crowd of spectators, he was led through the churchyard where he saw a bonfire of his books in the public square. As he knelt and prayed, his hands were tied behind him and a rusty chain wound round his neck. Straw and wood were piled around him. The name Huss meant "goose" in the Bohemian tongue and at the place of execution Huss reportedly said: "This day ye are burning a goose; but from my ashes will arise a swan, which ye will not be able to roast" - an expression later quoted by Luther. "Huss began to sing," writes Froom, "but the wind swept the flames into his face and silenced his words. Only his lips moved - until they too were stilled in death for his stand against the Antichrist of Bible prophecy." (Ibid., p.116).

Martin Luther (1483-1546), while still a priest of the Romish church, disagreed with the practice of selling indulgences. At first, he sought reform within the church. But as he grew in the knowledge of Christ, he saw that reform would be impossible and that the message was to"come out of her." Being loosened from the bondages of this system, he began to wonder if the Pope was the Antichrist. Eventually this belief became pronounced. His friends, fearing for his safety, begged him to suppress his book 'To the German Nobility'. To this he replied on August 18, 1520: "We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist... personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to the Antichrist." (Ibid., p.256). Two months later, in October 1520, Luther's book 'On the Babylonian Captivity of the Church' was published. In this he spoke of the Papacy (the system, not necessarily the individual Pope who then reigned) as "nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of the very Antichrist... For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the Church; while he yet sits in the Church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny." (Luther, 'First Principles', pp.196-197).

In 1540, Luther wrote: "Oh Christ, my Lord, look down upon us and bring upon us thy day of judgment, and destroy the brood of Satan in Rome. There sits the Man, of whom the apostle Paul wrote (2 THESSALONIANS 2:3-4) that he will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God - that man of Sin, that Son of Perdition... he suppresses the Law of God and exalts his commandments above the commandments of God." (Froom, Vol.2, p.281).

To Luther, the scriptures did not portray the Antichrist as an infidel, or a super-politician, but as he that would rise within the Church realm; that is, "in the midst of Christendom." Concerning the man of sin, he pointed out that he "sitteth not in a stable of fiends, or in a swine-sty, or in a company of infidels, but in the highest and holiest place of all, namely, in the temple of God." Further, he explains: "Is not this to sit in the temple of God, to profess himself to be the Ruler in the whole Church? What is the temple of God? Is it stones and wood? Did not Paul say, "the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are?" To sit - what is it but to reign, to teach, and to judge? Who from the beginning of the Church has dared to call himself master of the whole Church but the Pope alone? None of the saints, none of the heretics ever uttered so horrible a word of pride." (Luther, 'Works', vol.2, p.385).

It is evident that Luther did not believe the Antichrist would be some lone individual at the end of time, for he said: "The Antichrist of whom Paul speaks now reigns in the court of Rome." Martin Luther understood that the Papacy was the Antichrist of prophecy! As the Encyclopaedia Britannica says, "These ideas became the dynamic force which drove Luther on in his contest with the Papacy." (Vol.2, p.61, Article: 'The Antichrist').

Among other leaders with Luther in the Reformation in Germany was Andreas Oslander (1498-1552), who also took a stand against the Roman Antichrist who spoke words against God and who had seated himself in God's temple. His concept of the Antichrist was not limited to one individual man. He believed it was the Papal ecclesiastical system which rose with the fall of Rome and would extend until the end time. He felt that the Papal contention, that the Antichrist was some future person, had caused people to look ahead for a fictitious Antichrist and thus overlook the real Antichrist at Rome, who had already exerted his influence for centuries. (Froom, 'The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers', vol.2, pp.296-299).

To be continued...

"To be continued" indeed....continue all you want but it amounts to nothing at all more than this: you list lots and lots of people who have carefully read the very same texts that you have read -- within the same context (the entirety of the Bible), and have interpreted them differently than you have -- and have then willy-nilly declared them all to be wrong.

I have to tell that, in all honesty, many of those you disparage have been much better theologians (though I don't think much of the profession) and much better exegetes than you are. So in the end, you are merely telling us that what you think is right and what they think is wrong -- and that's your opinion and you're sticking to it.

Well and good for you -- but meaningless to anybody not so utterly bound up in obscure Biblical constructionism.

 

[3rdAngel]

"To be continued" indeed....continue all you want but it amounts to nothing at all more than this: you list lots and lots of people who have carefully read the very same texts that you have read -- within the same context (the entirety of the Bible), and have interpreted them differently than you have -- and have then willy-nilly declared them all to be wrong.

I have to tell that, in all honesty, many of those you disparage have been much better theologians (though I don't think much of the profession) and much better exegetes than you are. So in the end, you are merely telling us that what you think is right and what they think is wrong -- and that's your opinion and you're sticking to it.

Well and good for you -- but meaningless to anybody not so utterly bound up in obscure Biblical constructionism.

Not at all. I have only posted other early reformers claims in relation to the subject matter of the OP who have all come to the same interpretation of the scriptures already posted. How would you know what is the truth of the scriptures when you claim you do not know God or his Word when God's Word can only be known by those who believe and follow it *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 8:31-32; JOHN 16:13? To me this only sounds like a statement of the blind leading the blind IMO.

 

[3rdAngel]

Good that you say it's not about the people in these churches. Satan controls the world's organisations and groups from the top. Rome came under strong delusion so that they would believe a lie when they killed the early Christians. God gave them over to Satan and Rome has never changed her ways from the murderers that they were.

Yep I think that is the key thing I am wanting to state within the OP here 74x12. It is indeed not the people we are talking about but the Churchs of the world that have fallen away from Gods' Word. I believe according to the scriptures that God's people are in every Church and he is calling us all out where ever we are to whorship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 10:16; JOHN 4:23; REVELATION 18:1-5. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Not at all. I have only posted other early reformers claims in relation to the subject matter of the OP who have all come to the same interpretation of the scriptures already posted. How would you know what is the truth of the scriptures when you claim you do not know God or his Word when God's Word can only be known by those who believe and follow it *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 8:31-32; JOHN 16:13? To me this only sounds like a statement of the blind leading the blind IMO.

I really dislike such circular arguments -- and it is truly circular.

And I think it's utter rubbish to suggest, as you are now suggesting, that so many of those theologians "got it wrong" about "God's Word" because they didn't believe or follow it.

Can you see the circularity? They saw what they saw and followed what they saw and understood. You see what you see, and follow what you understand. You merely imply that you do it better than just about anybody.

I don't see any justification for such a self-aggrandizing belief.

 

[3rdAngel]

I really dislike such circular arguments -- and it is truly circular.

And I think it's utter rubbish to suggest, as you are now suggesting, that so many of those theologians "got it wrong" about "God's Word" because they didn't believe or follow it.

Can you see the circularity? They saw what they saw and followed what they saw and understood. You see what you see, and follow what you understand. You merely imply that you do it better than just about anybody.

I don't see any justification for such a self-aggrandizing belief.

Not really as I have simply quoted and posted what the scriptures say. Nothing on my part. I just believe what God's Word says. You do not so you will cannot understand them. It is not that difficult. You either believe and follow God's Word or you do not. The evidence my side is the very scriptures you do not believe, that I believe and follow. That is all I am sharing here. If you do not believe Gods' Word you will not follow what God's Word says neither can you know what they mean *1 CORINTHIANS 2:14. I believe this is what the scriptures teach. This is not anthing personal against you or anyone else here for that matter. I believe it is simply a statement of fact supported by the scriptures.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm glad, too. Catholics are generally pretty live-and-let-live. I'd much rather have a religious discussion with a Catholic than with most of the Protestants I've interacted with (Episcopalians being the major exception).

Less walls of rambling text?