The Hadith, The Muhaditheen, The Madhhabs & Fiqh

[Union]

The Muhadditheen, every single one, said it. They said if you find anything here to be false latter throw it away. Nobody was cocky or arrogant like the Mullah today who likes to misuse or linger on weak and faulty Hadith to hold political positions. Unfortunately the Sunni Shia Clerics have gotten busy in Oil and Gas and hurt each other while being played by the West and Israel. Hadith is ease for layman to go through, all they need to do is make sure they confirm with the Quran that what is said makes sense.

You have stated that Quran-alone accept the Hadith. But from practice this is not true, because it appears that most of your posts, and almost all your threads, are directed to destroy any value in Hadith altogether.

For example, when it comes to the Veil, the one described in the Quran, it appears that you have conveniently left alone the Hadith which are sufficiently in line with the Quran. Rather you favour your own interpretation. Which leads me to believe that to some degree Quran-alone are under the impression that Hadith couldn't possibly contain the interpretation of Holy Prophet (saw) on the Quran, and even if they do, they are not reliable...

A direct quote with reference from the Muhaddeethein would be appreciated . And as I clarify to you that we don't accept Hadith as the second source of Islam . But any true statement from it , there is no reason to deny . For say , if a Hadith says ' There is only one GOD ' should we reject this only beacuse it is a Hadith ? To clarify this further I told you that even this statement can be found in Bible , Puran or Bedh, we have to accept them .

I hope I clarified you .

 

[Union]

Now if it is the case that a Sahih hadith can be false , then what is the tool/Ulm to determine which Sahih hadith is genuine .

I think this modern approach to Sahih hadith sparks more problem as it pierced the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim into big question , how many Sahih hadith in them are true and how many untrue ?

 

[Rational_Mind]

A direct quote with reference from the Muhaddeethein would be appreciated . And as I clarify to you that we don't accept Hadith as the second source of Islam . But any true statement from it , there is no reason to deny . For say , if a Hadith says ' There is only one GOD ' should we reject this only beacuse it is a Hadith ? To clarify this further I told you that even this statement can be found in Bible , Puran or Bedh, we have to accept them .

I hope I clarified you .

If I give you the quote will your conquest of eliminating Hadith end?

Because I really don't think you are understanding what I am trying to convey. I have given you the simplest answers for your questions that nobody else answered so simply. Yet it appears that I am not getting through to you. I keep seeing the same question repeated.

I know why you hate Hadith, I cannot directly blame you, I think the responsibility lies in the hands of the Mullah who continues to distort Islam and poison rational minds to where they start associating negatively, often people leave Islam because of this poison. My Great Grandfather converted from Sikhism to Islam and then got disheart with the practice of begging of money from every Mullah at every mosque, but he was lucky to have met a companion of the Promised Messiah (as) who introduced him into True Islam, without such he started to think Muslims too have gone into politics and money.

 

[Union]

If I give you the quote will your conquest of eliminating Hadith end?

Because I really don't think you are understanding what I am trying to convey. I have given you the simplest answers for your questions that nobody else answered so simply. Yet it appears that I am not getting through to you. I keep seeing the same question repeated.

I know why you hate Hadith, I cannot directly blame you, I think the responsibility lies in the hands of the Mullah who continues to distort Islam and poison rational minds to where they start associating negatively, often people leave Islam because of this poison. My Great Grandfather converted from Sikhism to Islam and then got disheart with the practice of begging of money from every Mullah at every mosque, but he was lucky to have met a companion of the Promised Messiah (as) who introduced him into True Islam, without such he started to think Muslims too have gone into politics and money.

Your grand father's story is really touching . Why I am keep on asking that question because it will give the science of hadith a fascinating twist . Also a decade of my studying hadith , works from Al-Shafi , Ibn Salah , Zuhri and modern scholar like Azami , nobody quoted so . Hence a verdict from them might canonized this new look at the Sahih Hadith .

As I questioned also if a Sahih Hadith could be false , then what the Ulm Al Hadith offers to distinguish between Sahih False Hadith and Sahih true Hadith . Again the whole Buklhari and Muslim should be taken under the microscope of this view again and an era of Hadith science yet to begin .

 

[dynavert2012]

@ Dynavert2012 . I like when you always say at the end 'You got it ?' But Firstly I asked you to bring their different calculations of determining the age of Prophet , you didn't . Then asked to bring statements from the Muhaddeethin that a Sahih Hadith can be false/untrue , again you didn't . After building castle in the air , how you can you expect me 'to get it ' . You got it ?

sometimes ignoring be the best answer, i think you got it this time :yes:

 

[Union]

sometimes ignoring be the best answer, i think you got it this time :yes:

'I GOT IT' :magic:

 

[Assad91]

Now if it is the case that a Sahih hadith can be false , then what is the tool/Ulm to determine which Sahih hadith is genuine .

I think this modern approach to Sahih hadith sparks more problem as it pierced the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim into big question , how many Sahih hadith in them are true and how many untrue ?

Either you didn't read the first few post, or forgot. But akhi Gharib answered this already.

Now the Muhadith classes this hadith as Sahih with a strong chain of narration (I know, I'm a good Muslim lol).
But after all that the question still remains the same, how can it be Sahih if it contradicts the Qur'an?

As I mentioned before, the science of hadith only deals with what classification a hadith takes, they even go on to comment them (i.e explain it's historical background and the reasons why it was said and to whom it was said etc).

The matter of obeying the hadith moves into the science of Fiqh, which deals with the issue of 'does the hadith contradict the Qur'an, does it contradict other Sahih hadith, how can we apply it if it doesn't contradict anything, etc.'

So what the Fukaha do now after the hadith has been classed Sahih (authentic) is they see that it obviously contradicts the Qur'an, it contradicts other Sahih hadith and they say that we cannot follow this hadith, moreover they say that this hadith due to being Sahih, was said before Salah had become mandatory upon the Muslims (i.e they explain it from a historical point of view)

So in conclusion, the hadith is Sahih but we cannot apply it (obey it) because it contradicts the Qur'an and other Sahih hadith and was said at a point in history when Salah had not yet become obligatory upon Muslims.

I hope this is clear, if anyone has any questions on this please feel free to ask.

 

[Assad91]

I don't understand how anyone can call any of this new. Im starting to think Quranist just pretend to not understand.

 

[Union]

Either you didn't read the first few post, or forgot. But akhi Gharib answered this already.

Ok , let us lead by example . The Shahada 'La Ilaha Illa ALLAH Muhammadur RasulALLAH' is Shahada of Hadith [Ref.Bukhari 1.7] is

Contradicting the Qur'an , Q3.18
Contradicting other Sahih AHadith , Bukhari 4/55/644 and Sahih Muslim 1/43 .

Now tell me whether Bukhari 1.7 is a false Sahih Hadith or true Sahih Hadith .

 

[Gharib]

Ok , let us lead by example . The Shahada 'La Ilaha Illa ALLAH Muhammadur RasulALLAH' is Shahada of Hadith [Ref.Bukhari 1.7] is

Contradicting the Qur'an , Q3.18
Contradicting other Sahih AHadith , Bukhari 4/55/644 and Sahih Muslim 1/43 .

Now tell me whether Bukhari 1.7 is a false Sahih Hadith or true Sahih Hadith .

Hang on, do you accept the information that we've given you? Or maybe I should say, do you understand our arguments so far?

Post the hadith please. I don't understand what you are saying.

[7:158] ..... So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered prophet, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided.

 

[Union]

Sorry guys , I can't continue in this thread as I am receiving point 01 infractions from the moderators . See you somewhere :sad::sad: