The Head & The Heart

[whirlingmerc]

so I still partly disagree...

Thessalonians says 'they didn't receive the love of truth so as to be saved' part of seeing and savoring the beauty of Christ is beholding his beauty in terms of who he is
'This is eternal life that they might know you and Jesus Christ who You have sent', Jesus prayer in John 17 conserving knowing God and Himself in a true yet relational way... that involves head and heart

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I've been thinking about these 2 a lot lately.
Coz I've started noticing a real difference between them.
The thought just came to mind that my head can be a bit of a goat sometimes.
And I've noticed my heart doesn't like it.
Sometimes it feels like my heart literally drops inside me when my mind gets a bit ahead of itself.

I don't know where I'm going with this so feel free to share your thoughts or feelings!
And gently would be much appreciated.

I want to ask. How can you tell the difference?

I mean everything I feel in my heart or, emotions and experiences combined, can't exist without how my mind interprets everything from internal to external experiences etc; it all begins there. Even with intellect, I can go off my heart or gut feelings but then it's like saying "it feels alright to steal this cookie. I won't get caught" compared to rationalization "Maybe I should ask for the cookie to avoid consequences."

Why do we gear towards our heart telling us the truth while we struggle with the mind?

When you say your head can be a goat sometimes, how do you compare that to your heart? What is the difference between the two, I guess? Can your heart also be a goat sometimes too?

 

[JesusBeliever]

so I still partly disagree...

Thessalonians says 'they didn't receive the love of truth so as to be saved' part of seeing and savoring the beauty of Christ is beholding his beauty in terms of who he is
'This is eternal life that they might know you and Jesus Christ who You have sent', Jesus prayer in John 17 conserving knowing God and Himself in a true yet relational way... that involves head and heart

Yeah, I partly agree too!
I think there is a knowing in the mind and a knowing in the heart too.
And we can know Jesus on a head level and yet not know Him on a heart level.
I think the reason I associate knowing Him with the heart is coz I associate the fruits of the Spirit as being things we experience in the Heart.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Like if I was to ask you, where do you experience love, gentleness or kindness etc where would you place these things, in your mind or heart?
I locate them in my heart and I bring my mind into agreement or alignment with these fruits.
It reminds me of this verse:

"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" 2 Corinthians 10:5

But it's true that I wouldn't have learned to look for these fruits had my mind not first learned about them.
An interesting side note that I thinks relevant...
The Hebrew word for "OBEY" is SHAMA (look up H8085 in the Strong's)
And it is the exact same word used for "HEARING".
I heard a man once describe it like this...
That if we say we HEARD God speak to us but then don't OBEY what we HEARD it's probably because we didn't actually HEAR Him in that instance.
In other words to HEAR God is to OBEY God.
It reminds me of these verses:

"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." James 1:22-25

Ya know, it only just occurred to me reading these verses this time, what it means to behold oneself in the mirror.
It says that he immediately forgets what manner of man he was.
Being a sinner saved by Grace and not of himself, it is the Gift of God so no man can boast.
So I'm thinking that if we remember that we are loved not because of who we are but because of who He is...
Loving others the way He loves us seems easier.
Because we can see that we are just like them!
Reminds me of this verse:

"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Mark 2:17

 

[Twilight Hue]

I've been thinking about these 2 a lot lately.
Coz I've started noticing a real difference between them.
The thought just came to mind that my head can be a bit of a goat sometimes.
And I've noticed my heart doesn't like it.
Sometimes it feels like my heart literally drops inside me when my mind gets a bit ahead of itself.

I don't know where I'm going with this so feel free to share your thoughts or feelings!
And gently would be much appreciated.

Seems you focused and touched on something. Maybe see where it goes from there?

 

[JesusBeliever]

I want to ask. How can you tell the difference?

I mean everything I feel in my heart or, emotions and experiences combined, can't exist without how my mind interprets everything from internal to external experiences etc; it all begins there. Even with intellect, I can go off my heart or gut feelings but then it's like saying "it feels alright to steal this cookie. I won't get caught" compared to rationalization "Maybe I should ask for the cookie to avoid consequences."

Why do we gear towards our heart telling us the truth while we struggle with the mind?

When you say your head can be a goat sometimes, how do you compare that to your heart? What is the difference between the two, I guess? Can your heart also be a goat sometimes too?

Hi Carlita,
I find my heart to be quite gentle and even defenceless.
And would describe my heart as being more of a sheep than a goat.
Which is part of the reason I started this thread.
To see if others notice this difference in themselves too.
Just last night I heard a man describe the difference between sheep and goats in this way:
"Goats eat everything, while sheep don't!"
I'm sure there are other differences between them but this was one I hadn't considered before.
And I could immediately see this same depiction in my mind and heart.
My mind can, and has often tried to eat everything , where as my heart is way more selective and often doesn't like what my mind is eating.
In the past, I used to ignore how my heart felt.
But now I always try to submit to what my heart tells me.
Believing that this is the place where we truly hear the voice of God!
The left brain might hear the words, and the right brain might receive a visual, but I believe it's only the heart that can understand the heart of the message:
These verses come to mind:

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:29

"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles (nations), which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another" Romans 2:13-15

These verses might make more sense if you read them in relation to my last post regarding the Fruit of the Spirit!
I think the Fruit of the Spirit that we experience in our hearts is a sign of the law that has been written on our hearts.
I'm inclined to think that we all feel them, but maybe we close or harden our hearts to them when we feel wounded or vulnerable.

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." Romans 13:10

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hi Carlita,
I find my heart to be quite gentle and even defenceless.
And would describe my heart as being more of a sheep than a goat.
Which is part of the reason I started this thread.
To see if others notice this difference in themselves too.
Just last night I heard a man describe the difference between sheep and goats in this way:
"Goats eat everything, while sheep don't!"
I'm sure there are other differences between them but this was one I hadn't considered before.
And I could immediately see this same depiction in my mind and heart.
My mind can, and has often tried to eat everything , where as my heart is way more selective and often doesn't like what my mind is eating.
In the past, I used to ignore how my heart felt.
But now I always try to submit to what my heart tells me.
Believing that this is the place where we truly hear the voice of God!
The left brain might hear the words, and the right brain might receive a visual, but I believe it's only the heart that can understand the heart of the message:
These verses come to mind:

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:29

"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles (nations), which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another" Romans 2:13-15

These verses might make more sense if you read them in relation to my last post regarding the Fruit of the Spirit!
I think the Fruit of the Spirit that we experience in our hearts is a sign of the law that has been written on our hearts.
I'm inclined to think that we all feel them, but maybe we close or harden our hearts to them when we feel wounded or vulnerable.

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." Romans 13:10

We do have differing beliefs, I see. I had thought one time that the heart is the key to wisdom. That's what I've been taught or influenced by but I never really took a step back and think that (no offense) "sheep are stupid." I was watching an interview with Jake Gyllenhaal and Oprah. They were talking about the controversial movie he played in Brokeback Mountain.

During the interview, he told Oprah that one of the scenes they had a huge, I mean a huge gathering of sheep that as actors they had to learn how to herd in a X amount of time. He tells Oprah that sheep are actually "dumb." Not dumb as in bad or ignorant. Can't think of the right term other than, well, dumb.

Then I thought about it. In my short time in the Christian (heart-faith), I was a sheep. Not like a zombie or anything like that but pulled with my heart but never really thought about what I believed just going off of feelings and justifying what the Church (which I believe is true Christianity, mind you) tells me and confirming that with the blissful feelings I got from prayer to going to Mass.

I agree, the heart-feeling is wonderful (my terms); but, then I steped back and decided well, not to "eat everything." I get the goat-point. Maybe it's more goats accept and take everything in for a reason. It's way of saying "I am open to everything live throws at me" than the simplicity of a sheep that stays in the area his or her hearder directs them.

Maybe goats need more decernment skills, I'm sure. I do realize, though, the mind controls how we interpret the heart. So, we can either follow the shadow (the heart) or the person making the shadow (the mind).

To me, I get so confused running after a bunny on the wall making faces that I'm supposed to know by gut feeling is the animal it represents on the wall. In Buddhism, it's quite different. Not right (I won't say) just different. You get a sense of peace knowing that what you see on the wall is not a bunny (seeing outside of a sheep's eyes), appreciating the shadow, and following (depending on school), the person who makes the shadow and/or what the shadow represents and teaches us in our daily life.

We learn this as children making shadow puppets and so forth. Maybe that's where the heart/gut feeling came from, I don't know.

I understand what you're saying by experience. Right now, I'm pulling back from being a sheep. We can find humbleness within our minds since that's where we get our heart feelings from. Why the shadow and not the source?

There ya go.

 

[JesusBeliever]

You make a lot of valid points that I agree with, like this one:

He tells Oprah that sheep are actually "dumb." Not dumb as in bad or ignorant. Can't think of the right term other than, well, dumb.

I once heard a sermon online about the nature of sheep and it was quite funny coz they too were characterized as quite dumb. They were described as being followers by nature and quite short-sighted, in that they only saw a couple of feet around about the piece of grass they were chewing on, which usually included the next piece of grass they were eying up or the hooves of their fellow sheep. The preacher explained that in the old days, the Shepherd just had to earn the trust of one sheep of his flock which was usually a female. And the Shepherd would walk ahead of his flock calling the one sheep whose trust he had gained. She would start following the voice of the Shepherd and coz the rest of the sheep were natural followers they would spot the hooves of the sheep in front of them walking and they would all follow. I once got the opportunity to see this in real life when I visited a farm with my older brother. He said to me, "Check this out!" as the farmer began to call the trusted sheep whose name happened to be Milly. I had no idea what she was calling out to because from where we stood there were no animals in sight. I guessed it might be an animal she was calling but I had no idea of what to expect. Within a couple of minutes of the farmer calling for Milly, Milly the sheep appeared from around the corner coming up the hill to greet us. And a few feet behind her were the whole herd of sheep! It was an amazing sight to see!

It's interesting to note that Jesus said:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one." John 10:27-30

Many people automatically equate the voice of the Shepherd with the voice of the Church but that's not necessarily the case. Jesus also said:

"I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:11-18

Jesus also said:

"How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." Matthew 18:12-14

I think we are all little ones at the end of the day, but we don't like to look dumb so we try to look smart by being goats!
And it's only once we've eaten everything and made a real mess of things that we say to ourselves,
"I think I might stick to eating grass!"

Well this is my experience anyway!