The holocaust

[Ben Masada]

In the N/T scriptures, we find, "There are those that say they are jews, but are not."

We know that not only jews, but others, received the same horrible demise in the many German 'final solution' camps. I communicated with a jewish rabbi, and asked him if it was possible, that many 'jews' living in Israel and around the world, could have lost their status, as the annointed children of God. He responded with, "Sadly this is true, due to improper marriages."

This leaves me with the question, "Were those 'jews' that were horribly put to death, real jews, or simply followers of the jewish faith?

There is no difference between "real Jews" and "followers of the Jewish Faith" if by these last ones you mean converts to Judaism. They are both one and the same as a Jew. Now, if they were born of Jewish fathers but not mothers, they were not Jewish. This that they died a terrible death in the Holocaust, it doesn't change anything. Some Christians also did, Gipsys and homosexuals.
Ben

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Before you continue this idea that the Holocaust is a Christian atrocity you need to actually do some research on the subject.

*thoughtful research*

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

Messiah is more than just the man, it is also a people who live in an age. The Jews are the people and this is the age of Messiah ben Yosef, the suffering servant of Isaiah 53.


It is not correct, because you don't have the book of Beresheet supplied to us by Moshe, you have a flawed translation. Even in there, you can read the account of Adam in Genesis all you want, and while you will find many severe punishments for the sin they did, nowhere is the punishment of perpetual hereditary damnation to be found.

What about the story of Noah, and the curse put on Canaan? Even Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a descendant of Canaan.

 

[Zardoz]

What about the story of Noah, and the curse put on Canaan? Even Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a descendant of Canaan.

Reaching, aren't you?

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

Reaching, aren't you?

You seem to take God's Word with no fear. God has killed many people (using man, angels, etc.), as witnessed throughout the O/T scriptures. Without the saviour, He will kill us. Separation from God, is spiritual death. The laws of Moses were very strict concerning adultery and rape. Those that committed these offences, were put to death. There is a point, where we can lose our chance for salvation. We see this in God's hardening of the heart of the Pharoah (Exodus). We see the destruction of those who built the golden calf after Moses returned from receiving the ten commandments. We see how God intervened between king Saul and king David. Saul had tried to spear David twice. The stories of Lot, Joshua, Gideon, etc., etc., opens our eyes. God means what he says. We are in a 'game' of life and death, while we are on earth. This includes carnal and spiritual, life and death.

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

There is no difference between "real Jews" and "followers of the Jewish Faith" if by these last ones you mean converts to Judaism. They are both one and the same as a Jew. Now, if they were born of Jewish fathers but not mothers, they were not Jewish. This that they died a terrible death in the Holocaust, it doesn't change anything. Some Christians also did, Gipsys and homosexuals.
Ben

Real 'Jews', are descendants of 'Israel' (Jacob). Are you telling me, that 'man-made' Jews, are also 'anointed children of God', simply because they follow the Jewish faith? I doubt this very much. God made no such promise to the gentiles. God was rewarding Abraham's faith in, and obedience to, God. Only the descendants of Jacob/Israel were entitled to this anointment. If we look further in the O/T scriptures, we also find that God preferred that marriages took place 'within a tribe', so that inheritances remained with that specific tribe. If God was concerned with this, why would He accept gentiles, and change them to Jews?

 

[dmgdnooc]

Uriah the Hittite and so many other of David's 'Mighty Men', were not born in Israel, were not Jewish by birth.
Yet they, as converts, were afforded high place and position, marriage into noble families etc in Israel and close contact with the King.
　
These men were renowned for their faith and service.
I think that there is a valuable lesson here as to how God views converts to His ways.

 

[Zardoz]

You seem to take God's Word with no fear.

Incorrect. I just have no fear of some original sin, I only fear the sins that I myself commit. However, my G-d is forgiving to those who repent.

"Repentance, Prayer and Charity change the evil of the decree" ("T'shuva, Tephilah, and Tzedakah maverin et Roeh HaGezerah")

Without the saviour, He will kill us.

All men die, most due to their own sins, but the Jew also dies for the sins of the world. We are not guilty of all these sins of the world, but as priests, we are responsible.

Real 'Jews', are descendants of 'Israel' (Jacob). Are you telling me, that 'man-made' Jews, are also 'anointed children of God', simply because they follow the Jewish faith? ...

You do know that Ruth, the Convert, is the great-grandmother of David... right?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The Holocaust was not 'faith' based, many Christians (even Christian Clergy) were murdered because of their Jewish descent.
It was supposedly a racial, or genetically based programme of systematic murder.
　
Ironically Arabs, who were probably more racially pure Semites than the European Jews, were lauded by the Germans - there were even Arab divisions in the Nazi war machine.
　
Fact is it was founded on hatred, therefore, it is not required to conform to logic.

In a sense this may be true, that the Holocaust was not faith based, but dealt mainly with the Jews involvement in economics. Hitler thought that in order for Germany to be in full control of their destiny (world domination) that the Jews needed to be eliminated because of their economic "meddling." It could be said it was more racial than religious persecution.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Are you telling me, that 'man-made' Jews, are also 'anointed children of God', simply because they follow the Jewish faith?

No, a Jewish carpenter.

 

[Muffled]

According to Hitler the Jews killed his God. A great deal of anti Jewish sentiment existed for centuries in Europe, so Hitler was actually appealing to existing deep rooted prejudices of the people of his time. If you go back far enough, the holocaust is gospel based, unfortunately. According to the story a crowd of Jews called for Jesus' execution even though Pilate found Jesus innocent of any crime. Matthew 27:25. “His blood be upon us and our children.” Furthermore, it can be said without fear of exaggeration that the devastation imposed and inflicted on the Jewish people by the Church’s anti-Jewish reading of Matthew 27:25 has shed oceans of Jewish blood issuing into a ceaseless stream of misery and desolation that horribly culminated in Hitler’s Holocaust. In light of this it is extremely important that the true meaning of Matthew 27:25 be obtained so that the Chosen People can be free of the false accusation of “Christ killers” that is constantly imputed to them, resulting in the inevitable persecution and murder of the Jews that follow. “His blood be upon us…” — Matthew 27:25 and the Jewish People

LOL! Just remove the parts of the Bible you don't like. As far as I know the only way to be absolved of blood guilt is to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. On the other hand Jesus forgave the offenders on the cross. In either case the Christian's duty is the same as that of the jew ie to love one's neighbor.

 

[weirdpuckett]

According to Hitler the Jews killed his God. A great deal of anti Jewish sentiment existed for centuries in Europe, so Hitler was actually appealing to existing deep rooted prejudices of the people of his time. If you go back far enough, the holocaust is gospel based, unfortunately. According to the story a crowd of Jews called for Jesus' execution even though Pilate found Jesus innocent of any crime. Matthew 27:25. “His blood be upon us and our children.” Furthermore, it can be said without fear of exaggeration that the devastation imposed and inflicted on the Jewish people by the Church’s anti-Jewish reading of Matthew 27:25 has shed oceans of Jewish blood issuing into a ceaseless stream of misery and desolation that horribly culminated in Hitler’s Holocaust. In light of this it is extremely important that the true meaning of Matthew 27:25 be obtained so that the Chosen People can be free of the false accusation of “Christ killers” that is constantly imputed to them, resulting in the inevitable persecution and murder of the Jews that follow. “His blood be upon us…” — Matthew 27:25 and the Jewish People

Yes well, It sounds a bit like you might be excusing or justifying Hitlers actions . . . The law says also that a man is not responsible for his fathers sins.Nor is a father responsible for the sins of his son . . Hitlers only "god" was Satan . . .The jews didn't "kill God" anyway so this would only show that Hitler knows nothing of God in the first place . . .Notice in history near when Jesus was born, that Herod sent out a decree to have all the male jewish babies under the age of two destroyed? The same spirit was guiding Herod and Hitler both . . .Heck, you can even go back to Egypt in the bible and find Pharoah having a similar evil decree to the hebrew babes in Moses day right? Satan is always trying to eradicate the jews-the children of the most high . ..don't you get it? Satan will always come after them until He himself is put down . . .Not hard to figure this out . . .

 

[Ben Masada]

Real 'Jews', are descendants of 'Israel' (Jacob). Are you telling me, that 'man-made' Jews, are also 'anointed children of God', simply because they follow the Jewish faith? I doubt this very much. God made no such promise to the gentiles. God was rewarding Abraham's faith in, and obedience to, God. Only the descendants of Jacob/Israel were entitled to this anointment. If we look further in the O/T scriptures, we also find that God preferred that marriages took place 'within a tribe', so that inheritances remained with that specific tribe. If God was concerned with this, why would He accept gentiles, and change them to Jews?

Thorwald, when God established His Abrahamic Covenant, the token would be the circumcision made on the 8th day of birth. He said that His Covenant, He was making with Abraham, but all the Gentiles, his servants, who had been born in his house would have to undergo the same ritual. Obviously because they had converted to the God of Abraham. So, they had become of Abraham's seed. (Gen. 17:8-14) Then, if you read Isaiah 56:1-8, you will see that the text speaks about the conversion of Gentiles, who BTW, would get a name better than sons and daughters, once they decided to join God's People by conversion to Judaism. The truth though is that you indeed, do not need to convert to Judaism, as long as you remain loyal to the seven Noahide laws. But if you prefer, the doors of Judaism are aways open.

 

[johnpeter1970]

In the N/T scriptures, we find, "There are those that say they are jews, but are not."

We know that not only jews, but others, received the same horrible demise in the many German 'final solution' camps. I communicated with a jewish rabbi, and asked him if it was possible, that many 'jews' living in Israel and around the world, could have lost their status, as the annointed children of God. He responded with, "Sadly this is true, due to improper marriages."

This leaves me with the question, "Were those 'jews' that were horribly put to death, real jews, or simply followers of the jewish faith?

Only God knows the answer!