The Holocaust

[michel]

Since being here, I have seen at least a dozen threads started, with the intention of trashing the historical records of the Holocaust during WWII.


I thought it high time to have a poll, to make it (hopefully) quite clear what the majority of members believe.

An extract from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust :

The commonly used figure for the number of Jewish victims is six million, so much so that the phrase "six million" is now almost universally interpreted as referring to the Jewish victims of the Holocaust, though mainstream estimates by historians of the exact number range from five million to over six million.

Do you agree that the above is representative of the historical records of WWII ?

 

[jeffrey]

As someone else pointed out in another thread, Jews did not compile these records themselves. They where done by non-biased groups, including Hitler's own records. There are still groups of people that want to kill every last person that is Jewish. This is scary. The hatred continues...

 

[Sunstone]

I live in a country where slightly over half of adults disbelieve in evolution, and half of adults don't know the earth revolves around the sun. It therefore comes as no shock to me that there are people who disbelieve the Holocaust happened. And I expect their numbers to grow as the generation that witnessed the Holocaust first hand dies off.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Here is a good synopsis of all of the tragedies: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm#20worst

Please note, that the genocide of the American Indian came far closer to reaching it's goal than the Holocaust came to exterminating the Jews. Shame on us for this.

 

[Majikthise]

Please note, that the genocide of the American Indian came far closer to reaching it's goal than the Holocaust came to exterminating the Jews. Shame on us for this.

Native American culture was abundant for a long time in these territories , but it was constantly fractured and technologicaly stagnant. There is a big difference between a culture that cannot compete in a changing world and one that is part of the very culture you live in(Jews). I'm not saying they should have been treated as they were ,but ignorance on both sides led to the sad state of affairs we now have.

 

[michel]

Here is a good synopsis of all of the tragedies: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm#20worst

Please note, that the genocide of the American Indian came far closer to reaching it's goal than the Holocaust came to exterminating the Jews. Shame on us for this.

Good point NetDoc, every country has made mistakes, but here we are talking about a people the whole world has persecuted at one time or other.......and the very worst example of that abuse has been trashed by some as 'propaganda' ......I'm sorry, but that sickens me.

 

[Fluffy]

I believe it is accurate. I still do not believe it is bigoted to verify/question the facts, however, and reach alternative conclusions based on such findings and such findings alone.

 

[Aqualung]

I voted the last one, but that's because the other two didn't describe my beliefs. I don't think there's really any way of knowing within a reasonable number how many were killed. I'd wager that most of the people keeping track of the number of deaths were massaging the numbers at least a bit.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Sorry Michel,

I wasn't trying to hijack the thread. It's absolutely amazing to me how we just can't learn from our mistakes.

 

[Fluffy]

I voted the last one, but that's because the other two didn't describe my beliefs. I don't think there's really any way of knowing within a reasonable number how many were killed. I'd wager that most of the people keeping track of the number of deaths were massaging the numbers at least a bit.

Agreed. I find it incredibly naive to assume that those who are on the side of tolerance have less of a chance of having an agenda than those who are on the side of intolerance.

 

[ChrisP]

I also voted option 3 as I believe the figure is under exaggerated.

I agree with Fluffy and AquaTull regarding agenda's. I think it's important to remember that anyone who takes a point of view automatically becomes subjective with regard to any contested point. It's something oft times forgotten on this board and others.

 

[Mike182]

i cast my vote as "they are roughly correct" before reading any other posts in the thread, so appologise if i repeat anything already said

Heinrich himmler was the man incharge of the organisation of the mass killings of the jews under hitlers command, and records show him to be very precise, accurate, and calculating. he was known to keep records of events such as shaving and hair cuts! i therefor think that the given number is probably about accurate

however, the holocaust did not only concentrate on jews, but on gypsies, homosexuals, catholic preists, communists, and people of a variety of ethnicities. So is the 6m number including all of these people, or just the jews?

mike

 

[ChrisP]

. So is the 6m number including all of these people, or just the jews?

mike

Just the jews. Total overall is estimated to be roughly 10million. Say it with the repect it deserves.

10. Million. Individuals.

 

[Sunstone]

So is the 6m number including all of these people, or just the jews?

Just the jews. The total number of those killed by the Nazis is much higher.

 

[Fluffy]

Are the mainstream historians who feel that an estimation of five million murders is more accurate, bigotted for thinking so? Does a million people constitute "a vast exaggeration"?

 

[Scuba Pete]

There were a total of 50 million people who perished in WWII. Hate crimes were pretty common in Nazi Germany. If you followed my earlier link, you can see a break down by war/atrocity. Here are the figures for WWII: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Second Amazingly depressing to read.

 

[ChrisP]

There were a total of 50 million people who perished in WWII. Hate crimes were pretty common in Nazi Germany. If you followed my earlier link, you can see a break down by war/atrocity. Here are the figures for WWII: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Second Amazingly depressing to read.

It's hard to understand but is a timely reminder that we are Men and men are capable of things that surprises even ourselves.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Here is a good synopsis of all of the tragedies: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm#20worst

Please note, that the genocide of the American Indian came far closer to reaching it's goal than the Holocaust came to exterminating the Jews. Shame on us for this.

You mean the Americans did a better job in exterminating the American Indians then the German in exterminating the Jews?

As far as theory of evolution go, it is the survival of the fittest. The weaker genetic race will slowly disappear. In the case of holocaust of genocide of North and South American natives, the event is human instigaed and occurred over a short period of time, and hence people started to see the horrors of it. However, if you traced history, disappearing of a whole race with a long historical time frame due to natural selection process is very often. Some race are assimulated in, and some just disappeared.

 

[michel]

Thanks guys, I guess you have proved my point; hopefully we should have no more threads about The holocaust being propaganda.

 

[john63]

It really ires me when people try to deny the holocaust. I used to live in a high rise apartment building in Portland. One of my neighbors was a holocaust survivor. I think I choose to believe her rather than these nutcases who deny it.

I find this website particularly disgusting:
http://judicial-inc.biz/Auschwitz.htm