The Holy Shelah: Circumcising the Divine Phallus.

[IndigoChild5559]

No you didn't ... and there is no such thing as going vowel by vowel .. you are talking nonsense

Of course I did. Going "vowel by vowel" means examining each vowel in the order it comes up in a word. For example, if I look at your nick, Sargonski, going vowel by vowel means to go from a to o to i.

I refer you to post #70 The Holy Shelah: Circumcising the Divine Phallus.

The vowel point beneath the the ayin is pronounced "eh," not "o."​

The vowel point under the lamed is silent since it is at the end of a syllable.​

The vowel that is independent (on top of a placeholder) is pronounce "o," not "u." If the author wanted it to be pronounced "u," he would have place the dot inside, not on top.​

and have not shown how the Hebrew Word for "Most High" is not a synonym for Supreme

Again, I DID address this. Please see the same post #70 as above. I write:

I already explained to you that in English "God Supreme" and "God most high" mean the identical thing. El Elyon can be correctly translated to either phrase.​

it is an epithet

Excuse me, but DUH. I never argued with you about this. I made it clear from the very beginning of our conversation that the yod hey vav hey is the divine name, and things like El Elyon, El Shaddai, Adonai, Hashem... are all TITLES for God, not names. Yes, they are epithets. It's just a different phrase that means the same thing.

So why do you keep arguing this point when we AGREE?

Why are you going on about name calling ... and the difference between "Most High God" and "Supreme God" ... EL -- "most high God" of the Canaanites "El Elyon" is the God of Abraham .. El Shaddai is an epithet for EL - God of Abraham ..

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the SAME God as the God whom Moses worshiped. Abraham did not have a name for God. He simply addressed him as El Shaddai, or God almighty. It was Moses who introduced a name for God, the yod hey vav hey.

IOW, El Elyon, El Shaddai, Adonai, Hashem.... are ALL the same God as yod hey vav hey.

 

[Sargonski]

Of course I did. Going "vowel by vowel" means examining each vowel in the order it comes up in a word. For example, if I look at your nick, Sargonski, going vowel by vowel means to go from a to o to i.

I refer you to post #70 The Holy Shelah: Circumcising the Divine Phallus.

The vowel point beneath the the ayin is pronounced "eh," not "o."​

The vowel point under the lamed is silent since it is at the end of a syllable.​

The vowel that is independent (on top of a placeholder) is pronounce "o," not "u." If the author wanted it to be pronounced "u," he would have place the dot inside, not on top.​

Again, I DID address this. Please see the same post #70 as above. I write:

I already explained to you that in English "God Supreme" and "God most high" mean the identical thing. El Elyon can be correctly translated to either phrase.​

Excuse me, but DUH. I never argued with you about this. I made it clear from the very beginning of our conversation that the yod hey vav hey is the divine name, and things like El Elyon, El Shaddai, Adonai, Hashem... are all TITLES for God, not names. Yes, they are epithets. It's just a different phrase that means the same thing.

So why do you keep arguing this point when we AGREE?

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the SAME God as the God whom Moses worshiped. Abraham did not have a name for God. He simply addressed him as El Shaddai, or God almighty. It was Moses who introduced a name for God, the yod hey vav hey.

IOW, El Elyon, El Shaddai, Adonai, Hashem.... are ALL the same God as yod hey vav hey.

You are the one keeps going on about the transliteration of the of a Hebrew word ... as if a word in Hebrew for "most high" can not also mean "Supreme" .. failing to recognize .. for the 3rd time now .. that I don't care .. because it does not matter .. it is an epithet for High God.. "EL Elyon"

What is completely false is your claim these epithets for the most high God are all referring YHWH . .. and you were given examples showing you why this claim is false .. such as Psalm 82 .. where EL - "most high God of the Canaanites" is referred to as EL Elyon .. as opposed to YHWH who is also in the room addressing the council of the Gods in heaven .. in the Assembly of EL.

Notice it is not called .. "The Assembly of YHWH" .YHWH is not head of the Divine Assembly.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You are the one keeps going on about the transliteration of the of a Hebrew word ... as if a word in Hebrew for "most high" can not also mean "Supreme"

Correct. The Hebrew word can be translated either as Most High or as Supreme, since these are synonyms.

.. failing to recognize .. for the 3rd time now .. that I don't care .. because it does not matter .. it is an epithet for High God.. "EL Elyon"

What is completely false is your claim these epithets for the most high God are all referring YHWH

Correct. All those titles including El Elyon are epithets for yod hey vav hey.

. .. and you were given examples showing you why this claim is false .. such as Psalm 82 .. where EL - "most high God of the Canaanites" is referred to as EL Elyon ..

Nowhere in Psalm 82 does it mention any Canaanites. I'm not sure where you are getting "most high God of the Canaanites," but its not Psalm 82.

 

[Sargonski]

Correct. The Hebrew word can be translated either as Most High or as Supreme, since these are synonyms.

Correct. All those titles including El Elyon are epithets for yod hey vav hey.

Nowhere in Psalm 82 does it mention any Canaanites. I'm not sure where you are getting "most high God of the Canaanites," but its not Psalm 82.

A title and epithet are not quite the same and Adoni is a Greek word for Master or Lord .. not sure this was a Title for EL .. but was certainly a title for his Son Baal . ... National God of The Canaanites .. and thus a bid God among the Israelites .. one in competition with YHWH .. YHWH once commenting to the Israelites that they are not longer to call him "My Baal" Adoni was just a word used by the ancient copiests as a substitute for the name YHWH when the Bible was translated into Greek .. so you have wandered somewhat off the page Adoni used as a substitute for YHWH .. cause they did not want to write the name .. why this was the case is a whole other story .. but bottom line .. Adoni does not really fit into the conversation.. about ancient Hebrew Epithets for EL.

You have some confusion over the appearance of EL in Psalm 82 .. You were told that EL is the "Most High" God of the Canaanites .. not that Canaanites were mentioned in the Story ? Canaanites are however mentioned in the footnotes - "In the Bible" .. at least more modern translations such as the New English Translation .. quoted previously . Further .. it was explained to you previously that the El Elyon of Genesis 14 is also the Canaanite High God EL -- that being not only the verdict of modern Scholarship but "Melchi-Zedek" the Priest of the Most High God and King of Jerusalem is a Canaanite King..

Are you having trouble with the fact that the God of Abraham is also the Most High God of the Canaanites .. El Elyon being one of El's Epithets .. along with El Shaddai .. and there are a bunch of others attributed to EL .. Creator .. Father.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Adoni is a Greek word for Master or Lord ..

Okay, I'm no longer going to waste time arguing with you. You continue to think you know it all, and then make really terrible mistakes like this one. Adonai (spell it right) is not Greek at all. It is Hebrew.

You see, I at least know my limitations. I don't claim to be fluent in Hebrew or a rabbi or a historian or a philologist... I know very well I make mistakes, which is why I listen to others. It's why I put in several hours of research before making my replies to you -- because I have to double and triple check what I say. Until you develop some humility and start listening to others, discussions with you are pointless.

 

[Sargonski]

Okay, I'm no longer going to waste time arguing with you. You continue to think you know it all, and then make really terrible mistakes like this one. Adonai (spell it right) is not Greek at all. It is Hebrew.

You see, I at least know my limitations. I don't claim to be fluent in Hebrew or a rabbi or a historian or a philologist... I know very well I make mistakes, which is why I listen to others. It's why I put in several hours of research before making my replies to you -- because I have to double and triple check what I say. Until you develop some humility and start listening to others, discussions with you are pointless.

Why are you getting upset ... over a typo .. and the mistake thinking it was a Greek word because it was the word used when the Hebrew Bible was Translated into Greek .. and then run around crying out "your an know it all" .. and then complaining about lack of humility ? .. when it is your far more important claims that are false.

Turns out .. Adonis is an Canaanite word for Lord .. interesting .. but the important part is not about whether it is a Greek word .. or Canaanite -Hebrew word .. but that the word means Lord and that was the word substituted for YHWH when ancient script was translated into Greek .. and hey .. perhaps into Aramaic as well ..

The mainpoint here is that the God of Abraham was EL - Most High God of the Canaanites and .. and the Most High God being referred to in Psalm 82. .. Everybody knew about the Assembly of EL back in the day when this hymn was being sung one of the Temples of YHWH .. not just the Israelites .. but all the peoples around them .. they all believe in the Divine Council in the heavens .. headed up by EL .. To a person .. regardless of whether or not they were a worshiper of Marduk, Chemosh, Yahu of the Shasu or Baal / Hadad as a Patron or National God. Thats just how things were back in the day.

Neither the Israelite Religion nor was the cult of YHWH Monotheistic ~ 900 BC. Its just not how things were .. EL and other high gods have many sons - daughters . The story from Joshuah through Kings is about the battle between these "Sons of God" for supremacy .. the winner usurping the position of the Chief God on Earth .. which was EL .. El remains the High God in the Heavens -- Psalm 82 is about YHWH winning the battle and becoming High God on Earth El Elyon God Most High ..

 

[John D. Brey]

Correct. All those titles including El Elyon are epithets for yod hey vav hey.

. . . Exodus 6:3 seems to confirm that.




John

 

[Sargonski]

. . . Exodus 6:3 seems to confirm that.

"Correct. All those titles including El Elyon are epithets for yod hey vav hey"

Yod hey vav hey some kind of secret code Brother John .. to enter into the secret society

Of Course YHWH took the title of God Most High .. EL Elyon .. on winning the war with the other Son's of EL .... usurping the position of EL as Chief God on Earth .. "God Most High" over the earth. .. but this is not the God of Abraham not the only God for which this Epithet was used .. or other epithets .. IC suggesting Adonai - Adoni .. Lord Baal being the other in that case .. though I don't really class that Title in the same class as the Epithets of EL -- Psalm 82 for example uses the term to refer to EL .. of the "Assembly of EL" .. Most High God of the Canaanite Pantheon .. as El Elyon . El Shaddai is another Canaanite -- God on high reference ..the word thought to refer to mountain or "twin peaks" --

Oh but that was one Epithet of EL that YHWH did not inherit .. he never was referred to as El Shaddai .. or .. wait a minute .. sure Yahu of the Shasu was referred to as God of the Mountain .. right .. now I remember my sunday school lessons .. fire breathing God this one .. a dragon .. related to vulcan god of the forge .. God who lived in a tent on a Mountain .. Of Course this is YHWH .. except the occupant of that Tent before YHWH was EL . high God of the Canaanites .. High God to the Babylonians Enlil .. known as Illil by others .. high God of the Assyrians .. now high in Heaven .. as head of the Divine Council to which YHWH is a membert ..

YHWH inherits these Epithets upon becoming high God over teh Earth .. EL remains High God in the heavens .. Chief of the Divine council of Gods. That is what Psalm 82 is telling you .. Exodus 6. redacted after the death of YHWH -- trying to make a monotheistic perspective fit into a polytheistic story ... 500 years after the fact ..in a time of great religious confusion - trying to figure out their religion .. this thing that would morph into Judaism ..

What part of "El is the God of Abraham" .. the El Elyon of Genesis 14 meeting with the Canaanite priest-king Melchi-Zedek , the high priest of EL Elyon in Jerusalem at the time. the first that we know of .. of the Zadokite Priestly order that bears his name.

Who or what is Zedek John ?

 

[John D. Brey]

"Correct. All those titles including El Elyon are epithets for yod hey vav hey"

Yod hey vav hey some kind of secret code Brother John .. to enter into the secret society

Of Course YHWH took the title of God Most High .. EL Elyon .. on winning the war with the other Son's of EL .... usurping the position of EL as Chief God on Earth .. "God Most High" over the earth. .. but this is not the God of Abraham not the only God for which this Epithet was used .. or other epithets .. IC suggesting Adonai - Adoni .. Lord Baal being the other in that case .. though I don't really class that Title in the same class as the Epithets of EL -- Psalm 82 for example uses the term to refer to EL .. of the "Assembly of EL" .. Most High God of the Canaanite Pantheon .. as El Elyon . El Shaddai is another Canaanite -- God on high reference ..the word thought to refer to mountain or "twin peaks" --

Oh but that was one Epithet of EL that YHWH did not inherit .. he never was referred to as El Shaddai .. or .. wait a minute .. sure Yahu of the Shasu was referred to as God of the Mountain .. right .. now I remember my sunday school lessons .. fire breathing God this one .. a dragon .. related to vulcan god of the forge .. God who lived in a tent on a Mountain .. Of Course this is YHWH .. except the occupant of that Tent before YHWH was EL . high God of the Canaanites .. High God to the Babylonians Enlil .. known as Illil by others .. high God of the Assyrians .. now high in Heaven .. as head of the Divine Council to which YHWH is a membert ..

YHWH inherits these Epithets upon becoming high God over teh Earth .. EL remains High God in the heavens .. Chief of the Divine council of Gods. That is what Psalm 82 is telling you .. Exodus 6. redacted after the death of YHWH -- trying to make a monotheistic perspective fit into a polytheistic story ... 500 years after the fact ..in a time of great religious confusion - trying to figure out their religion .. this thing that would morph into Judaism ..

What part of "El is the God of Abraham" .. the El Elyon of Genesis 14 meeting with the Canaanite priest-king Melchi-Zedek , the high priest of EL Elyon in Jerusalem at the time. the first that we know of .. of the Zadokite Priestly order that bears his name.

Who or what is Zedek John ?

. . . I think there's indeed a lot of confusion since there's so many religions interpreting these things in so many different ways. It's pretty taxing trying to synthesize all the truest element into a whole. As I read you, I don't necessarily disagree with the generalities of the way you're interpreting these things.




John

 

[Balthazzar]

I am my father whom my mother formed from herself. I can understand a concept like the one I just implied, but there are types who would suggest the divine phallus to be essential for a worship type service, which can lead to many abuses. The same, if it isn't already noted, could be said for the Vulva. But again, too much focus can equate to many abuses, so I prefer my own stance. Forgive me if I offer too little in this thread.

"I am my father whom my mother formed from herself."

I'm not a Eunuch by the way. For what it's worth.

 

[John D. Brey]

I am my father whom my mother formed from herself.

Bravo. That's a brilliant condensation of the gist of the Gospel message. I don't know if you were being facetious or not, but I'm not.



John

 

[Sargonski]

. . . I think there's indeed a lot of confusion since there's so many religions interpreting these things in so many different ways. It's pretty taxing trying to synthesize all the truest element into a whole. As I read you, I don't necessarily disagree with the generalities of the way you're interpreting these things.




John

Actually .. there used to be more confusion .. new information such as deciphering 10% of the massive library of texts found at Rash Shamra - Ugarit .. detailing very specific Canaanite religious beliefs spaning 3 centuries 1100-1400 BC .. in great detail . It is very easy these days to find and listen to any number of you-tube productions going over these beliefs in great detail .

One of the fascinating things about these Canaanite religious beliefs is that these are proto Israelites beliefs .. prior to the Canaanite Nomadic Tribes that coalesced into a group that called themselves the people who struggle with the Most High God EL

and would you believe . these Canaanites all "Assembly of EL" .. a standard part of the religious belief of .. "everyone" at that time .. traditions going back thousands of years .. in 1100 BC .. the Great Sargon of Akkad uniting the city states of Sumer into the worlds first Empire ~2300BC was 1200 years ago but everyone knew the tale of Sargon like we know Michael Jackson ..like seriously .. who has not heard of Micheal Jackson .

So 100 years later .. When these Canaanite Nomads take advantage of the Bronze Age Collapse .. .. and have as their National God Yahu of the Shasu .. when David Takes Jerusalem in 1000 BC .. the name of the King at the time was "Adoni-Zedek" .. and how funny the term Adoni has come up ... translating the name .. "My Lord is Zedek" Patron God of Jerusalem for at least 800 years if we put "Melchi-Zedek" at~ 1800 BC.

Now-- what did you think David did to the Zadokite Priesthood at Jerusalem when he broke down the doors ... This Priesthood of Melchi-Zedek
and who is this Patron God Zedek .. and what does David do with this Patron God when he takes the city and this sacred holy order of Priests from way way way way back .. who said Melchi-Zedek was the first ??

and now .... we are having fun with scripture .. getting real specific ...