The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament

[Kristoffer]

In christian tradition, THS didn't occure in humans before Jesus was reawakened. But in Acts 4:25, its stated that: "You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David: "'Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain?"

What could this possibly mean?

 

[Kristoffer]

And when it stands about Gods Spirit in the OT: does it mean THS, or is this some other kind of Spirit?

Have THS always been active among mankind?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

God is not flesh and blood like a man. He is a spirit. Since God is holy then His spirit is holy. Thus God is a Holy Spirit and since there is only one God He is The Holy Spirit. There is no separate part of some imagined trinity

 

[lovemuffin]

Christians have always, afaik, believed that the Spirit of God in the Hebrew scriptures is the same as the Paraclete Jesus promised to send, the same Holy Spirit which came upon the apostles at Pentecost, into which people were baptized in Acts, and for which Paul says our bodies are a temple. What they believed was that Jesus indicated a new and more complete way in which Christians participate in the life of that Spirit when he said that it was good for us that he was going away, because he would send the Spirit.

They did not believe that God was not active in the world prior to that, as you see in Acts. The orthodox creed of the first council of Constantinople also says of the Holy Spirit that it "spoke by the prophets". Christians might consider the way in which the Spirit is portrayed in the Hebrew scriptures (c.f. "the Spirit of the Lord came upon him" -- Judges 3:10, or Ezekiel 11:5) as almost a precursor of the fulness of life in the Spirit spoken of by Christ. In any case, they certainly didn't think it was a different Spirit.

 

[atpollard]

In christian tradition, THS didn't occure in humans before Jesus was reawakened. But in Acts 4:25, its stated that: "You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David: "'Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain?"

What could this possibly mean?

The way it was explained to me, prior to Jesus, the Holy Spirit came upon people, for a specific period of time and for a specific purpose ... a classic case being when the spirit of the Lord came on King Saul, and later left.
After Jesus, the Holy Spirit sets up permanent residence inside of those whom God chooses.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The way it was explained to me, prior to Jesus, the Holy Spirit came upon people, for a specific period of time and for a specific purpose ... a classic case being when the spirit of the Lord came on King Saul, and later left.
After Jesus, the Holy Spirit sets up permanent residence inside of those whom God chooses.

In Scripture God and Jesus are always in the masculine, whereas God's holy spirit is also in the neuter as "IT"
God's spirit is Not the Father but an impersonal power or energy that God puts forth as mentioned at Psalm 104:30
At Numbers 11 vs 17 and 25 God's spirit is used as "it" and Not in the masculine.
Even in English we can properly call a boat or a ship as ' she ' although they are neuters.
KJV Bibles at Romans 8 vs 16,26 uses ' itself ' (neuter ) for God's spirit.

Do those people of Hebrews 6 vs 4-6 have a permanent holy spirit residence inside of them ?_____

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In christian tradition, THS didn't occure in humans before Jesus was reawakened. But in Acts 4:25, its stated that: "You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David: "'Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain?"
What could this possibly mean?

Jesus was permanently awakened from death's deep sleep when God resurrected Jesus out of biblical hell - Acts 2 vs 27,31,32; 3:15
40 days later the resurrected Jesus ascended to heaven.
10 days later, at Pentecost, is when God's spirit was poured out on the 120 persons.

Between Acts 4 vs 23 to 31 immediately after being released from custody Peter and John met with the rest of the congregation and prayed for courage because determination alone would Not be enough to sustain them in the preaching work.
Opposers try to break one's faith so they needed strength from God, and prayer was a powerful sustaining force for them.
They did Not pray to be spared from facing trials because they knew Jesus taught them they would be persecuted and hated.
Under adverse circumstances they wanted to speak with boldness - Acts 4 vs 29-31.
For they were first of all accountable, Not to men, but to God - Acts 5:29

 

[atpollard]

In Scripture God and Jesus are always in the masculine, whereas God's holy spirit is also in the neuter as "IT"
God's spirit is Not the Father but an impersonal power or energy that God puts forth as mentioned at Psalm 104:30
At Numbers 11 vs 17 and 25 God's spirit is used as "it" and Not in the masculine.
Even in English we can properly call a boat or a ship as ' she ' although they are neuters.
KJV Bibles at Romans 8 vs 16,26 uses ' itself ' (neuter ) for God's spirit.

Do those people of Hebrews 6 vs 4-6 have a permanent holy spirit residence inside of them ?_____

I see no reason to retread the same old 'Trinity' vs 'no Trinity' debate. I see the difference between the work of the Holy Spirit (him or it) in the OT and NT being a short term assignment in the OT and a long term assignment in the NT. Agree or disagree, but I just don't want to argue the whole Trinity debate again.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I see no reason to retread the same old 'Trinity' vs 'no Trinity' debate. I see the difference between the work of the Holy Spirit (him or it) in the OT and NT being a short term assignment in the OT and a long term assignment in the NT. Agree or disagree, but I just don't want to argue the whole Trinity debate again.

Huh? I never mentioned a trinity or triad but that God's spirit - Psalm 104:30 - is a neuter - Numbers 11 vs 17,25
Why do you use a capital letter "H" and a capital letter "S" when in Scripture it's God's holy spirit ?

 

[atpollard]

Huh? I never mentioned a trinity or triad but that God's spirit - Psalm 104:30 - is a neuter - Numbers 11 vs 17,25
Why do you use a capital letter "H" and a capital letter "S" when in Scripture it's God's holy spirit ?

OK, in case it was not obvious from my self declairation of being a 'reformed baptist' under religion, I believe in the Trinity. God as one being in three distinct persons. Therefore, to me (and all of the Trinitarian theologians stretching back to the early church) the third person of the Triune God is the Holy Spirit ... as a proper name, like Jesus Christ or God the Father, it is appropriate to capitalize His name as the Holy Spirit.

Why does God speak in the plural in the first chapters of Genesis? I suspect that you will not conclude that God is a plural in the same way you use the gender neutral of Psalm 104 to argue for the 'holy spirit" of God rather than the "Holy Spirit" of God.

I apologize if I seem overly defensive ... the same experiences that lead me to avoid the Debate Section and lean towards the DIR sections (except when struck by a moment of stupidity) have shaped my defensive posture on debates about the Trinity (or anything that looks like it is heading in that direction) ... like the gender neutrality of the Holy Spirit.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

God is a spirit and He is holy, thus He is the Holy Spirit. not some third person in a trinity.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God is a spirit and He is holy, thus He is the Holy Spirit. not some third person in a trinity.

Why did you capitalize Holy Spirit when God's holy spirit is neuter - Numbers 11 vs 17,25; Psalm 104:30 ?

 

[Nada]

In christian tradition, THS didn't occure in humans before Jesus was reawakened. But in Acts 4:25, its stated that: "You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David: "'Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain?"

What could this possibly mean?

Hope this helps.


"Jehovah’s Triumphant King

7. In prayer, how did Jesus’ early followers apply Psalm 2:1, 2?

7 Jesus’ followers applied the words of Psalm 2:1, 2 to him. Persecuted for their faith, they prayed: “Sovereign Lord [Jehovah], you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, and who through holy spirit said by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant, ‘Why did nations become tumultuous and peoples meditate upon empty things? The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers massed together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ Even so, both Herod [Antipas] and Pontius Pilate with men of nations and with peoples of Israel were in actuality gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.” (Acts 4:24-27; Luke 23:1-12)* Yes, there was a conspiracy against God’s anointed servant Jesus in the first century. However, this psalm would have another fulfillment centuries later."

"The “empty things” here spoken of are shown by the context to be, not the things that people ordinarily seek in life, but things that are devoid of all good—actually thinking, speaking, and attempting to fight against Jehovah and his servants—utterly futile things.—Ac 4:25."

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200270044/79/0

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200270044/79/4

 

[URAVIP2ME]

OK, in case it was not obvious from my self declairation of being a 'reformed baptist' under religion, I believe in the Trinity. God as one being in three distinct persons. Therefore, to me (and all of the Trinitarian theologians stretching back to the early church) the third person of the Triune God is the Holy Spirit ... as a proper name, like Jesus Christ or God the Father, it is appropriate to capitalize His name as the Holy Spirit.
Why does God speak in the plural in the first chapters of Genesis? I suspect that you will not conclude that God is a plural in the same way you use the gender neutral of Psalm 104 to argue for the 'holy spirit" of God rather than the "Holy Spirit" of God.
I apologize if I seem overly defensive ... the same experiences that lead me to avoid the Debate Section and lean towards the DIR sections (except when struck by a moment of stupidity) have shaped my defensive posture on debates about the Trinity (or anything that looks like it is heading in that direction) ... like the gender neutrality of the Holy Spirit.

At Genesis 1:26 God says let us.... Doesn't us mean more than one person ?
Since the pre-human Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God according to Revelation 1:5; 3:14, then God is speaking to the pre-human heavenly Jesus.

Only God is before the beginning (everlasting ) according to Psalm 90:2.
Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
Jesus was at the beginning of creation, but Not before the beginning of creation.

At places JKV Bibles use a capital H and a capital S, but in the ancient manuscripts God's holy spirit is Not capitalized.

 

[atpollard]

At Genesis 1:26 God says let us.... Doesn't us mean more than one person ?
Since the pre-human Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God according to Revelation 1:5; 3:14, then God is speaking to the pre-human heavenly Jesus.

Only God is before the beginning (everlasting ) according to Psalm 90:2.
Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
Jesus was at the beginning of creation, but Not before the beginning of creation.

At places JKV Bibles use a capital H and a capital S, but in the ancient manuscripts God's holy spirit is Not capitalized.

What a surprise, another disagreement over the nature of Jesus and the Holy Spirit between a 'Reformed Baptist' and a JW ... if you would fill in your Religion, we could avoid wasting a lot of time discussing nonsense since a 'Jesus as GOD incarnate' and a 'God created Jesus' are irreconcilable differences in interpretations of scripture.

I disagree with what you believe ... and probably always will.
You disagree with what I believe ... and probably always will.

If you would just identify your religion, we could agree to disagree sooner and avoid these pointless retreads of old discussions.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What a surprise, another disagreement over the nature of Jesus and the Holy Spirit between a 'Reformed Baptist' and a JW ... if you would fill in your Religion, we could avoid wasting a lot of time discussing nonsense since a 'Jesus as GOD incarnate' and a 'God created Jesus' are irreconcilable differences in interpretations of scripture.
I disagree with what you believe ... and probably always will.
You disagree with what I believe ... and probably always will.
If you would just identify your religion, we could agree to disagree sooner and avoid these pointless retreads of old discussions.

If you would just identify your Scripture verses, we could......................................

What does gospel writer John believe about Jesus at what John wrote at Revelation 1:5; 3:14 ?_______________________________

 

[atpollard]

If you would just identify your Scripture verses, we could......................................

Argue in circles until the energy death of the universe?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

the Bible says "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." the Word was later made flesh (Jesus). so both the Father and Son were there in the beginning

 

[URAVIP2ME]

the Bible says "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." the Word was later made flesh (Jesus). so both the Father and Son were there in the beginning

According to Psalm 90:2 only God was ' before ' the beginning.
So, Jesus was Not ' before ' the beginning as God was before the beginning.

The same Greek grammar rule applies at John 1:1 as it does at Acts 28:6 B
KJV Bibles add the ' a ' at Acts, and omits the ' a ' at John 1:1

What did gospel writer John write about Jesus at Revelation 1:5; 3:14 ?
Didn't John believe Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God ? _______

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Argue in circles until the energy death of the universe?

Since the earth abides forever - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalms 104:5, 30; 93:1; 78:69 B; 37:11,29; 1st Chronicles 16:30; Jeremiah 10:11,12 - then there will be No energy death of the universe or earth.