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The hymen doesn't work that way, bible.

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Gonna take a moment to talk about something kind of squicky to some people, and that's female anatomy. Specifically a hymen, which is a somewhat petaled, arch-like tissue that lines the external opening of the vagina. Most people world over believes that this is something virgins have and non-virgins don't. The problem is...
that is completely incorrect. To a huge extent!

Notice that it 'partly encloses'. There is a disorder that causes the hymen to be more like the barrier most people think of the hymen as, and it has to be surgically removed to allow for menstrual flow. But that is a rare exception.
There even is a study which shows that 52% of the studied individuals, the hymen was still smooth and completely intact in teens which were sexually active. (link) That's because in most cases the hymen doesn't cover enough of the vagina to interrupt penetration. And even if it does, hymens can heal if the damage isn't too great. Further, damage to the hymen can be done by other perfectly normal activities like doing the splits, taking an ugly fall, riding horseback and so on.
This means one very important thing: There is no such thing as reasonable or accurate virginity testing for women.

This doesn't sound like it's a revolutionary concept, but it is. For goodness sake, even dictionaries sometimes gets this fundamental fact wrong: "noun, Anatomy.
1.
a fold of mucous membrane partly closing the external orifice of the vagina in a virgin." (Dictionary.com Bold emphasis mine. Thankfully Miriam Webster omits that little bit).

The problem is a lot of cultures still desire women to be a virgin at the time of their betrothal (including ours.) Some even still preform virginity tests where bleeding after sex and the finger inspections of the hymen are used to determine whether or not the woman is still a virgin. Even though it's false standard.

The bible is no exception to this ancient practice. In Deuteronomy 22:13-21 it says:"If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, 'I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin,' then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out the evidence of the young woman's virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. And the young woman's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. 'Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, "I found your daughter was not a virgin," and yet these are the evidences of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; and they shall fine him one hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. But if the thing is true, and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house. So you shall put away the evil from among you"

As I hope you all understand by now, this is totally bull****.This woman's life relies on a completely inaccurate test. How many women do you suppose were stoned after their virginity was called into doubt because some completely unrelated activity tore the hymen? Or because the hymen was simply not broken during sex?
Or how many women were saved, not because they didn't commit adultery, but because their hymens healed and tore again?

Christians are quick to point out that this scripture is part of the old covenant and not enforceable by Christians today. Fewer doubt, however, that the old covenant was indeed handed down by God to the ancient Israelites. But my question to you is...why in the world would God give this instruction in the first place? I'm assuming he would have known this bit of female anatomy trivia already. So why make a completely bonkers test that could easily end with an innocent woman getting killed? The only thing that makes sense to me is this wasn't written by a divinely inspired author, but was a hold out of the cultural misconceptions that have endured in some places even to this day.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
But my question to you is...why in the world would God give this instruction in the first place?
Really, if anything, it's further proof the Bible is not the words of a god (because this would indicate he doesn't know much about his own creation) but rather the words of angry men who were desperate for control (and my how the Bible is loaded with verses that are about controlling women).
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
At my age, it is often times more interesting how much good sense some people and groups have made out of the Bible by way of their interpretations of it, than it is interesting what sometimes very poor material they had to work with in the first place.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
So why then, he claimed to be the messiah, the local Jew's did not believe.

They crucified him for that claim.
According to the NT, it was a conspiracy led by the Pharisee high priests to have Him killed. They got the Roman authorities to believe that He was challenging the authority of Rome.

You're really not familiar with the Bible at all, are you?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I wonder if the study was done on minors.
Doesn't matter. Common "knowledge" about the hymen, especially when someone's "education" about it comes from the Tanakh/OT, is blatantly and factually wrong.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Doesn't matter. Common "knowledge" about the hymen, especially when someone's "education" about it comes from the Tanakh/OT, is blatantly and factually wrong.
You're saying "because it comes from the Tanakh/OT it must be wrong"? That's not a very good argument.
 

allfoak

Alchemist
What is at fault is not the scripture but the interpreter.
The Bible is never to be read literally.
Passages like that make it obvious that it is not to be read literally to those who have nothing bad to say about God.
To those who would mock and find fault, the literal interpretation of the Bible is a very good way to do it.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
What is at fault is not the scripture but the interpreter.
The Bible is never to be read literally.
Passages like that make it obvious that it is not to be read literally to those who have nothing bad to say about God.
To those who would mock and find fault, the literal interpretation of the Bible is a very good way to do it.

How would you interpret this in a less literal way?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
What is at fault is not the scripture but the interpreter.
The Bible is never to be read literally.
Passages like that make it obvious that it is not to be read literally to those who have nothing bad to say about God.
To those who would mock and find fault, the literal interpretation of the Bible is a very good way to do it.

This line of reasoning will never stand up, and frankly, needs to stop being used. When I am attempting to correct my children's behavior, do I leave my words open to their interpretation? No. Do I preface everything I say with "Now don't take this literally, but...?" No. I tell them what they need to know in order to make sure they do not behave in the wrong manner again. I tell them why it is wrong, and expound, if necessary. And I believe to do otherwise would make me a very poor father indeed.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
It was girls between 13 and 19. Marriageable age at the time the OT was written.
But that particular verse is referring to girls under 12. Verse 16 quotes the father as saying that he gave his daughter to the man [in marriage]. Over the age of 12, the daughter accepts marriages on her own, not through her father. So this verse is referring to a girl under 12.
Also, I think girls over 19 were also allowed to get married.
 
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