The Idea of 'Race'

[metis]

It would be hard to have a conversation about the Baltimore situation without using the concept.

I typically use "blacks" and "whites" and "Asians" instead of "race" in informal conversations.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I never thought whites, blacks, Asians, ect. were multiple races. I thought we were one race: The human race. Why would there be multiple races within one? I thought the different groups of people are really not much different than different breeds of animals, like black bears and polar bears. Different fur color and body type but they are still bears.

 

[Kirran]

The issue is what are the metrics for 'genetically distinct'?

Genetically distinct, as a term, refers to populations having discrete differences between their genetic makeup.

This is not really found in humans.

All modern humans are believed to have started from the same source and genetic divergence occurs after geographical separation which relatively isolates groups for periods of time. That is what causes genetic 'races' or 'ethnic groups' to have some differences.

Yes, that's right, we all came from the same source, emerging in Southern or East Africa around 195kya. Our most recent common ancestor lived around 3,500 years ago.

If we'd had fundamental separations between human populations to the extent they'd gone millennia without any interbreeding with each other, then yes, this would be meaningful. But that is not the case.

I typically use "blacks" and "whites" and "Asians" instead of "race" in informal conversations.

What do you see these terms, collectively, as referring to?

Something biological? Or cultural?

I never thought whites, blacks, Asians, ect. were multiple races. I thought we were one race: The human race. Why would there be multiple races within one? I thought the different groups of people are really not much different than different breeds of animals, like black bears and polar bears. Different fur color and body type but they are still bears.

Well, bears actually contain separate species, and are pretty diverse. For that matter, there's far more variation between domestic dog breeds than between human populations. Or domestic cat breeds, sheep, etc. We're one of the least genetically diverse species on the planet. Tasmanian Devils are even worse.

 

[metis]

What do you see these terms, collectively, as referring to?

Something biological? Or cultural?

Mostly biological, but not as stand alone entities. I've never had a person question my intent by using these terms.

 

[George-ananda]

Genetically distinct, as a term, refers to populations having discrete differences between their genetic makeup.

This is not really found in humans.

Certainly there are differences and it's arbitrary to what you call 'discreet' differences. But 'races' per the Webster definition exist as I said before and also the definition says nothing about 'genetically distinct' whatever that actually means. The word and concept 'race' existed long before our modern understanding of genetics.

Yes, that's right, we all came from the same source, emerging in Southern or East Africa around 195kya. Our most recent common ancestor lived around 3,500 years ago.

If we'd had fundamental separations between human populations to the extent they'd gone millennia without any interbreeding with each other, then yes, this would be meaningful. But that is not the case.

Here you're heading towards claiming race implies a 'fundamental separation'. Nowhere is 'fundamental separation' in the definition or in my understanding. The differences are more subtle than fundamental.

 

[Kirran]

Certainly there are differences and it's arbitrary to what you call 'discreet' differences. But 'races' per the Webster definition exist as I said before and also the definition says nothing about 'genetically distinct' whatever that actually means. The word and concept 'race' existed long before our modern understanding of genetics.




Here you're heading towards claiming race implies a 'fundamental separation'. Nowhere is 'fundamental separation' in the definition or in my understanding. The differences are more subtle than fundamental.

But differences between which groups?

To be clearer, which part of the Webster definition are you going with?