The Image Christians Have of People

[viole]

If God kills babies, then he'll send them all straight to heaven.

That is unfair.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Twilight Hue]

Idk, we have too many people on earth as it is. We could stand to lose. A billion. Or 3.

Hopefully it's through attrition. =0]

There's no doubt elective birth control is a means to an end because if it wasn't around, thing could get very crowded and uncomfortably complicated.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I tend to say I'm bad based on what I see as bad.

You can't see bad like you can see that e.g. a cat is black.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I am atheist and would hold my personal moral values above most Christians.

From my experience of Christianity i would suggest most non Christians can say the same

I can't as I have no evidence of that. I can say with evidence that they are different, but neither above nor under.

 

[Sheldon]

"if there is no God, then everything is permitted."

This of course is a subjective opinion, but there are plenty of secular governments and they don't permit everything.

We are told we are made in the image of God which I suppose is good.

Except it is a scientific fact we evolved slowly over time, as have all living things, so this cannot literally be true.

We simply cannot be trusted to make our own moral decisions

But we can to decide a deity has given us rules and subjectively pick which deity, and which rules to follow? That makes no sense, either we are capable of evaluating actions as to their moral rectitude or we cannot, if we can't then subjective religious claims don't help, since we would also be unable to evaluate their morality.

 

[viole]

We are told we are made in the image of God which I suppose is good.

Why do you suppose that? God is, according to Scriptures, morally suboptimal.

However, our being made in God's image doesn't keep us people from being really bad.

Well, see previous point. Maybe we are such exactly because we are in His image.

Christianity tells us that we are all sinners falling short of God's glory.

With the possible exception of one day old kids. For I cannot imagine how a one day old kid, or younger, could sin.

We simply cannot be trusted to make our own moral decisions and should trust God to make those decisions for us.

Since we ate from the tree of moral knowledge, we are exactly like God when we make a decision we consider moral.

In fact, "if there is no God, then everything is permitted." And of course, we sinful people will do that which should not be permitted!

Really? Where I live, people leave their merchandise outside all night, and expect people to serve themselves and pay via Internet. They all pay. When it would be ridiculously simple and very safe to just steal. Despite being a place where no more than 20% believe in gods, nor in police doing overtime.

Like Einstein would say, if we really need a policeman in the sky who forces us to behave, we would be a sorry lot indeed. That would also, de-facto, defeat that we are in the image of God, unless He also would like to steal when not seen.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

As we are told in Psalm 14:
The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”

Correct. For the wise would say it to the whole world.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

That was the moment when he blundred.

Yes, a negligent parent is a bad parent.

 

[viole]

That's a good point. If God had dwelled on Earth, preventing evil and unhappiness from harming His children's lives, that would have been wonderful.
But He would have deprived us of Freedom.
Freedom is His gift.

Will you have that same freedom in Heaven?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Colt]

We are told we are made in the image of God which I suppose is good. However, our being made in God's image doesn't keep us people from being really bad. Christianity tells us that we are all sinners falling short of God's glory. We simply cannot be trusted to make our own moral decisions and should trust God to make those decisions for us. In fact, "if there is no God, then everything is permitted." And of course, we sinful people will do that which should not be permitted!

As we are told in Psalm 14:


Are we really that bad?

The assumptions of Christianity are a real mess! Jesus taught a parent-child familial relationship between God and his children on earth. Even if the world had not fallen humans could still rebel and certainly be imperfect. Death and or translation is normal form humans. The idea that were supposed to be perfect is erroneous.

 

[Jagella]

Really the scriptures single out idol worshipers and other types of sinners far more in the Bible than atheists. Atheists do get the rare mention.

I'm focusing this discussion on Psalm 14, but yes, the Bible says very little about atheists no doubt because there were very few avowed atheists at that time.

I think the Psalmist includes himself and is humble enough. He's speaking as if from God's perspective. It is God that looks down from heaven and sees that all people have gone astray so to speak.

I agree that the Psalmist includes himself in "all mankind" because he's a man, of course. I also agree that the Psalmist thought he was speaking for God. He evidently thought that God had a very negative opinion of the behavior of his creations. If the Psalmist is right, then logically God decided to create beings that he knew would anger and disgust him.

Don't you find that logical consequence to be in conflict with the idea of a God who is perfectly wise? How wise would I be if I baked a cake that I knew would taste awful?

This was common knowledge in ancient Jewish beliefs and customs. The idea that everyone ... even the angels were imperfect and flawed compared to God.

Some scholars explain God's supposedly having such a dim view of people as a result of the foreign powers that kept conquering Israel. The Jewish scriptures were evidently written by men who blamed those tragedies on people because they didn't want to blame God. Of course, the conquests on Israel on the part of foreign powers had little to do with the behavior of the Jews: Those foreign powers were out for booty and strategically located land.

Because God sees all things. He knows every thought or action you've ever done. He also knows our motives and how vain we are in our thinking. How we think highly of ourselves and look down on others for example. God knows and sees all this. So he's not really impressed with humans. However, he does still love us.

It looks like there just is no privacy! It's odd that God is so unimpressed with us considering that he created us. It seems reasonable to me that a perfect God would only create very impressive creatures.

Finally, I must disagree with God because most people are good most of the time. We people have created wonders that have been tremendous blessings. Heck, we've kept God's religion going for thousands of years. It looks like there's just no pleasing some people.

 

[Clara Tea]

We are told we are made in the image of God which I suppose is good. However, our being made in God's image doesn't keep us people from being really bad. Christianity tells us that we are all sinners falling short of God's glory. We simply cannot be trusted to make our own moral decisions and should trust God to make those decisions for us. In fact, "if there is no God, then everything is permitted." And of course, we sinful people will do that which should not be permitted!

As we are told in Psalm 14:


Are we really that bad?

WHAT IS THE IMAGE OF GOD?

"Fat kids, skinny kids, kids that climb on rocks..."

From the Armour hot dog commercials: "Fat kids, skinny kids, kids that climb on rocks, tough kids, sissy kids, even kids with chicken pox."

Some people are short, black, yellow, brown, white, fat, thin, etc. So, if there are many types of people, what exactly is the image of God?

Does God have two eyes, two ears, one nose, etc?

I think that man is flawed, and is in the image of the personality of God (which is also flawed).

Gasp.....shocking....blasphemy. Not really. While most pastors would insist that God is perfect, good, and flawless, we have no proof of that. Perhaps the bible says it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is true.

If God was perfect, why did he make flawed humans with original sin? Why doesn't God intervene with suffering cancer patients? Why does God allow one animal to kill and eat another animal (or eat the animal while it is screaming in pain)?

Jagella: "Being made in God's image doesn't keep us people from being really bad."

Clara Tea responds: And God sometimes was really bad, too. Noah's flood. Sodom's destruction. Walls of Jericho. Allowing Egyptians to enslave Jews. Etc.

Jagella: "If there is no God then everything is permitted."

Clara Tea responds: Christians assert that atheists have no morals, but they are very wrong. Atheists have morals, and they don't steal or murder (usually) because they have morality. Their morality is not from thinking that God will zap them in the back with a lightning bolt. Rather, they simply do the right things.

So, if there is no God, not everyting is permitted. Morals prevent bad bahavior, and one doesn't need God to have morals.

Christians think that they have a monopoly on morals, and only they can do the right things. Yet, look at all of the scandals....Reverend Jim and Tammy Fay Bakker (stealing donations to starving Africans to pay for their mansion). Reverend Jimmy Swaggart paying for a prostitute. Reverend Robert Schuller seeking donations for his church, without telling his congregation that the congregation doesn't own the church, he personally owns it (he sold the Crystal Cathedral for $50 million, and kept the money). You don't see many immoral atheists in the news, but you see a lot of immoral theists in the news. Hmm...maybe Satan runs the press?

 

[Clara Tea]

The assumptions of Christianity are a real mess! Jesus taught a parent-child familial relationship between God and his children on earth. Even if the world had not fallen humans could still rebel and certainly be imperfect. Death and or translation is normal form humans. The idea that were supposed to be perfect is erroneous.

Christians ignore the teachings of Christ (thou shalt not kill....yet wars, torture camps, and you can't run for office without supporting the National Rifle Association).

It is an established fact that nations that have strict gun laws have less gun violence.

 

[Clara Tea]

Hopefully it's through attrition. =0]

There's no doubt elective birth control is a means to an end because if it wasn't around, thing could get very crowded and uncomfortably complicated.

We hope for attrition,
But got malnutrition,
We follow frauds,
And don't follow Gods.

 

[Vee]

Are we really that bad?

No one is perfect and everyone is a sinner, however some are better than others.
Some people recognize their limitations and make an effort to be decent human being regardless of any imperfections they were born with. Every day we see people do incredible things, heroic even. There is still a lot of good in this world.
Others, blinded by greed and a thirst for power, will go to any lengths to obtain what they perceive belongs to them at any price. If that means destroying other people's lives and the planet itself, that doesn't bother them. The type of language I would like to use to describe such people is not allowed on RF, but you get the idea.
In the end, we all make choices. I still believe there is more good than bad in people, but the bad is impossible to ignore.

 

[Fool]

We are told we are made in the image of God which I suppose is good. However, our being made in God's image doesn't keep us people from being really bad. Christianity tells us that we are all sinners falling short of God's glory. We simply cannot be trusted to make our own moral decisions and should trust God to make those decisions for us. In fact, "if there is no God, then everything is permitted." And of course, we sinful people will do that which should not be permitted!

As we are told in Psalm 14:


Are we really that bad?

if there is no love, the problem is obvious.



proverbs 10:12



only love is right, righteous

 

[Colt]

Christians ignore the teachings of Christ (thou shalt not kill....yet wars, torture camps, and you can't run for office without supporting the National Rifle Association).

It is an established fact that nations that have strict gun laws have less gun violence.

The 2nd amendment is based on the right to self defense and states protection against the power of the federal government.

Some of those countries that aren’t allowed to have guns also live under oppressive governments.

 

[Jagella]

I am atheist and would hold my personal moral values above most Christians.

From my experience of Christianity i would suggest most non Christians can say the same

Obviously if you want to sell a savior, then you want to convince people that they need one.

 

[Ella S.]

I think there is some wisdom in the Christian teaching that we are all sinners. It keeps those striving to be good humble, focused on constant self-improvement, always trying to be better and remembering that they aren't as good as they could be.

At the same time, I don't think it's healthy to label genuinely decent people like Mr. Rogers or Mahatma Gandhi "sinners." I understand the general point that even they were human and had their shortcomings, but come on, for being human they were pretty impressive in how good they were. Their legacies have almost become synonymous with goodness itself in common parlance.

Personally, I don't think that goodness is some unachievable standard. I think it is a choice. Granted, sacrificing one's own happiness for the greater good is usually quite miserable. I think it's very hard to be a genuinely good person and still be happy, because that seems to suggest that you aren't sacrificing as much as you can for others, but it's still a choice that you can realistically make even if it sucks. Passages like these end up just being another kick in the teeth to good people, while bad people are left completely unaffected since they are already content to be sinners.

 

[ChristineM]

Obviously if you want to sell a savior, then you want to convince people that they need one.

They don't do a good job