The Injustice System & Damien Echols

[Revoltingest]

I heard Mr Echols's talk on The Moth again yesterday,
& decided it would be a great subject for a thread.

Some info on him....
The Moth | Podcast | September 17, 2012 <--- I highly recommend a listen.
West Memphis Three - Wikipedia
An Interview with "Life After Death" Author Damien Echols

The short version....
Wrongly convicted of murder with no real evidence, he endured failing health in solitary
confinement on death row. Only after the public became interested in this travesty did
government offer him a deal.....plead guilty, & he'd be released from prison. Odd, eh?
While maintaining his innocence, he'd rot in jail until executed. But admitting guilt for
murder, he could go free. What's really going on is that government knew his conviction
was woefully wrong, but they didn't want civil liability for what they did to him....& so they
forced him to falsely plead guilty, lest he die in prison.

Some complaints I have....
- The death penalty is irreversible, so errors cannot be corrected. And errors abound.
- Government is loath to release prisoners they know to have been wrongly convicted.
Once they have you, they want to keep you...justice be damned.
- When in prison, it's just incarceration, it's also violence, torture, injury, & abuse.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Some complaints I have....
- The death penalty is irreversible, so errors cannot be corrected. And errors abound.
- Government is loath to release prisoners they know to have been wrongly convicted.
Once they have you, they want to keep you...justice be damned.
- When in prison, it's just incarceration, it's also violence, torture, injury, & abuse.

One of my own anecdotal: the local oinkers have it out so bad for my brother (who has been in and out of jail throughout his life) that they have harassed his son a few times (their last name is unique, it stands out, and nobody else in the area has it). They see the name, they don't think justice, they see keeping a corrupt and greedy system turning. It's sometimes mentioned that welfare is set up to keep people in it. Few point out the legal system is worse.

 

[Stevicus]

I heard Mr Echols's talk on The Moth again yesterday,
& decided it would be a great subject for a thread.

Some info on him....
The Moth | Podcast | September 17, 2012 <--- I highly recommend a listen.
West Memphis Three - Wikipedia
An Interview with "Life After Death" Author Damien Echols

The short version....
Wrongly convicted of murder with no real evidence, he endured failing health in solitary
confinement on death row. Only after the public became interested in this travesty did
government offer him a deal.....plead guilty, & he'd be released from prison. Odd, eh?
While maintaining his innocence, he'd rot in jail until executed. But admitting guilt for
murder, he could go free. What's really going on is that government knew his conviction
was woefully wrong, but they didn't want civil liability for what they did to him....& so they
forced him to falsely plead guilty, lest he die in prison.

Some complaints I have....
- The death penalty is irreversible, so errors cannot be corrected. And errors abound.
- Government is loath to release prisoners they know to have been wrongly convicted.
Once they have you, they want to keep you...justice be damned.
- When in prison, it's just incarceration, it's also violence, torture, injury, & abuse.

I would wonder whether it was a matter of an "honest mistake" where they genuinely thought they had the guilty parties - or if they were bribed to frame these guys as a way of covering up for someone else. If these guys are innocent, then someone else committed the crime and got away with it.

I think a lot of the problem rests in a certain element of our culture where we place far too much trust in the police, judges, and other legal authorities. We may be scornful about politicians and bureaucrats, but for whatever reason, the police, judges, etc. seem to be above reproach in a lot of people's eyes.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's sometimes mentioned that welfare is set up to keep people in it.

Aye, a cynic might think that the party which gives, is the party
which gets their votes, is the party which arranges the need to
be given. One could think that.

 

[Revoltingest]

I would wonder whether it was a matter of an "honest mistake" where they genuinely thought they had the guilty parties - or if they were bribed to frame these guys as a way of covering up for someone else. If these guys are innocent, then someone else committed the crime and got away with it.

Cover up seems quite unlikely

I think a lot of the problem rests in a certain element of our culture where we place far too much trust in the police, judges, and other legal authorities. We may be scornful about politicians and bureaucrats, but for whatever reason, the police, judges, etc. seem to be above reproach in a lot of people's eyes.

But cops are heroes....so they tell us.
I blame prosecutors & judges more.
They're never held accountable for misdeeds.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Aye, a cynic might think that the party which gives, is the party
which gets their votes, is the party which arranges the need to
be given. One could think that.

One could think that, though I doubt it's any less easier or harder going from state insurance to private insurance in Indiana or California. That old idea of "be either really rich or really poor."

 

[Revoltingest]

One could think that, though I doubt it's any less easier or harder going from state insurance to private insurance in Indiana or California. That old idea of "be either really rich or really poor."

Tis that divide which encourages being on the dole.
To take away benefits at the first hint of beginning to
earn an income would indeed be discouraging.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Tis that divide which encourages being on the dole.
To take away benefits at the first hint of beginning to
earn an income would indeed be discouraging.

It is. Especially going from having your medical needs covered to having to empty your bank account from medical debt. But, that's for another topic.

 

[tytlyf]

DNA cleared his name and he was released. Echols was wrongly convicted by christians who pinned the murders on them because they were satanists. Echols being the oldest and ringleader got the death penalty.

Echols entered an "Alford plea."

I think there's more to the story than just the big bad Arkansas government.

 

[Stevicus]

Cover up seems quite unlikely

Hard to say what was going through their minds. You gotta wonder, though. If they were investigating the case in good faith, how could they screw it up so badly? I also saw in the link that one of the key witnesses recanted her testimony because she said she had been coerced by the police. That, just by itself, would indicate a cover up. If it was simply an honest mistake, there's no reason they would use coercion.

But cops are heroes....so they tell us.
I blame prosecutors & judges more.
They're never held accountable for misdeeds.

This is true. With as much light as the media put on the other two branches of government, the judicial branch seems to get a free pass by comparison.

Oh, by the way, Happy Birthday!

 

[Revoltingest]

Hard to say what was going through their minds. You gotta wonder, though. If they were investigating the case in good faith, how could they screw it up so badly? I also saw in the link that one of the key witnesses recanted her testimony because she said she had been coerced by the police. That, just by itself, would indicate a cover up. If it was simply an honest mistake, there's no reason they would use coercion.

That conspiracy would only make sense if powerful people did the killings.
They don't seem to be the kind of murders for that scenario.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

**** the police.

It's ridiculous it only takes 22 weeks to become a police officer, but takes years to become a lawyer.

 

[tytlyf]

**** the police.

It's ridiculous it only takes 22 weeks to become a police officer, but takes years to become a lawyer.

What's even more dangerous is that police departments don't have issues with PTSD applicants.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

What's even more dangerous is that police departments don't have issues with PTSD applicants.

That's like shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Revoltingest]

**** the police.

It's ridiculous it only takes 22 weeks to become a police officer, but takes years to become a lawyer.

In LA, you need 1600 hours of education to become a licensed cosmetologist.
This is because of the dangers posed by a bad haircut or perm.

In LA, you need only 880 hours of education to become a cop.
This is because of the lesser danger posed by beating up &/or shooting the wrong person.

Ref....
California Board of Cosmetology | CA Cosmetology License Requirements
What Kind of Training and Education Are Needed to Become a Cop?

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

In LA, you need 1600 hours of education to become a licensed cosmetologist.
This is because of the dangers posed by a bad haircut or perm.

In LA, you need only 880 hours of education to become a cop.
This is because of the lesser danger posed by beating up &/or shooting the wrong person.

Ref....
California Board of Cosmetology | CA Cosmetology License Requirements
What Kind of Training and Education Are Needed to Become a Cop?

Jesus Christ where the **** is the oversight in these decisions?

 

[dust1n]

Some complaints I have....
- The death penalty is irreversible, so errors cannot be corrected. And errors abound.
- Government is loath to release prisoners they know to have been wrongly convicted.
Once they have you, they want to keep you...justice be damned.
- When in prison, it's just incarceration, it's also violence, torture, injury, & abuse.

All legitimate, but on the last note, what I find particularly strange about this issue, is that it is so widely held as acceptable by the public at large (let alone the government) that incarceration should also entail high degrees of exposure to violence and abuse. I imagine when the civil rights of prisoners are actually preserved and guarded then the rights of other people will likely be in a far greater condition as well.

 

[Revoltingest]

All legitimate, but on the last note, what I find particularly strange about this issue, is that it is so widely held as acceptable by the public at large (let alone the government) that incarceration should also entail high degrees of exposure to violence and abuse. I imagine when the civil rights of prisoners are actually preserved and guarded then the rights of other people will likely be in a far greater condition as well.

Welcome back, #24.

 

[dust1n]

Welcome back, #24.

Thanks, you caught up at the moment? I haven't watched last night's yet, so no spoilers.

 

[Revoltingest]

Jesus Christ where the **** is the oversight in these decisions?

It says something about priorities.