The Jehovah's witnesses and the rest. What's the stumper?

[YoursTrue]

YoursTrue I hope all is well with you..
I reply: Baptism makes us "Children of God" the debate was where do unbaptized babies end up? Limbo was NEVER established as Doctrine; It was just a suggestion!
In the Middle Ages theologians came up with the theological construct of limbo, which never has been a defined doctrine. Limbo does get around two sticking points: the absence of sanctifying grace, which implies no possibility of heaven, and the absence of personal guilt, which implies no hell. Unbaptized infants die with neither, so it might seem that they are destined neither for heaven nor hell.
Yes YoursTrue The only Church Jesus founded can be the "One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church"! Only the Catholic Church is Apostolic just for one; With historic documented list of Popes going back to Peter the ROCK, none other! I am not making this up all the early Church was Catholic all accepted the authority of the Pope! The Pope closed the canon of scripture in 400 A.D.
YoursTrue Predestination... Read it yourself.... (below)
John Calvin’s ideas of “election” and “double predestination” are virtually indistinguishable. Double predestination is the teaching that claims God to have determined from all eternity who will go to heaven and who will go to hell, giving man no real choice in the matter. The Catholic Church condemns this understanding, for example, in the ***Catechism of the Catholic Church:

God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance” [citing II Peter 3:9] ***(CCC 1037).

However one understands the theology of “election,” as a Catholic, as long as he does not deny certain essential truths, there is freedom. For example, a Catholic can believe that the number of the “elect” is “predetermined” inasmuch as God knows how many will cooperate with this grace and persevere until the end. That means there is a limited number of “elect,” and, of course, not everyone is “elect.”

A Catholic may not, however, teach “election” to mean that God does not give to every single person the real possibility of salvation. Gaudium et Spes makes this clear:

For, since Christ died for all men, and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery (22, para. 5).

In other words, “election” does not mean God arbitrarily “elects” some for heaven and damns others to hell as Calvin taught. A true biblical understanding of “election” must involve man’s truly free response:

To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace (CCC 600).

What's the topic here again?
I am not saying that the Catholic religion (RCC in particular because I'm not that familiar with the Eastern Orthodox Church anyway) does not have scholars, in fact, I'm sure it does. But I don't think that Jesus meant anyway on a different note that Peter was the rock he intended to found his church. Speaking of which, now that I'm looking at the subject, would you know if the Eastern Orthodox Church had or has a form of limbo in its theology?

 

[Dogknox20]

What's the topic here again?
I am not saying that the Catholic religion (RCC in particular because I'm not that familiar with the Eastern Orthodox Church anyway) does not have scholars, in fact, I'm sure it does. But I don't think that Jesus meant anyway on a different note that Peter was the rock he intended to found his church. Speaking of which, now that I'm looking at the subject, would you know if the Eastern Orthodox Church had or has a form of limbo in its theology?

YoursTrue I hope all is good.. It's hot here!
You asked.. The topic of the thread, it is... The Jehovah's witnesses and the rest. What's the stumper?
You had asked about "Limbo" in your previous post. Your comment now is ... I don't think that Jesus meant anyway on a different note that Peter was the rock he intended to found his church.

My reply: (You don't think Peter is the ROCK Jesus built his Church on) Scholars tell us "It was Peters confession" that Jesus built his Church on! You cannot deny "The ROCK with the Help of God the Father from heaven kept Simon the ROCK from error! 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
God interceded on Simon ROCK's behalf! God made sure it was Simon Rocks confession that founded His church!
YoursTrue You cannot deny the word "Peter means ROCK"! The WORD was Simon Peter's no others confession! The word.. (Simon ROCK's word) was 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Right then Jesus gave the name ROCK to Simon! "You are ROCK"! "On this Peter I will build my Church!"
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
YoursTrue The Church Jesus built before he ascended has the same AUTHORITY as Jesus! KEYS: are a symbol of AUTHORITY! Re-read the verse above #19! The Keys were given to PETER none other! KEYS with the authority of Jesus! This truth is even more evident as Peter is told to STREGTHEN the others after Satan tests them!
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”
YoursTrue Peter would glorify God.
All the Popes has a direct linage in an unbroken chain back to Peter... Pope Frances is 265th in line!

 

[YoursTrue]

YoursTrue I hope all is good.. It's hot here!
You asked.. The topic of the thread, it is... The Jehovah's witnesses and the rest. What's the stumper?
You had asked about "Limbo" in your previous post. Your comment now is ... I don't think that Jesus meant anyway on a different note that Peter was the rock he intended to found his church.

My reply: (You don't think Peter is the ROCK Jesus built his Church on) Scholars tell us "It was Peters confession" that Jesus built his Church on! You cannot deny "The ROCK with the Help of God the Father from heaven kept Simon the ROCK from error! 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
God interceded on Simon ROCK's behalf! God made sure it was Simon Rocks confession that founded His church!
YoursTrue You cannot deny the word "Peter means ROCK"! The WORD was Simon Peter's no others confession! The word.. (Simon ROCK's word) was 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Right then Jesus gave the name ROCK to Simon! "You are ROCK"! "On this Peter I will build my Church!"
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
YoursTrue The Church Jesus built before he ascended has the same AUTHORITY as Jesus! KEYS: are a symbol of AUTHORITY! Re-read the verse above #19! The Keys were given to PETER none other! KEYS with the authority of Jesus! This truth is even more evident as Peter is told to STREGTHEN the others after Satan tests them!
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”
YoursTrue Peter would glorify God.
All the Popes has a direct linage in an unbroken chain back to Peter... Pope Frances is 265th in line!

Thank you, I hope you also are doing well.
Just to clarify, I don't believe that Jesus meant Peter was the "rock" on which he based his church. Yes, Peter would glorify God. I'd like to discuss this as much as possible and slowly, because it can be a huge subject for some.
So going over the word 'rock,' we could certainly recognize that the church of Christ is not a literal building of stone, because we know that God “does not live in temples made by man.")
(Acts 17:24 - The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,)
Matthew 16:18 has two usages of the word for 'rock,' or pebble(s). Notice what one dictionary says about this (regarding the Greek term for Peter's name).
4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros ("small stone") then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra ("cliff, boulder," Abbott-Smith).
"4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff" (TDNT, 3, 100). "4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff" (S. Zodhiates, Dict).
(Not the same as the second use of the Greek word which refers to JESUS alone (with his Father, of course).
Matthew 16:18 - And I tell you that you are Peter [petros], and on this rock [petra] I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Petra is the rock (Jesus). He was referring to himself as the Rock on which the church is founded.
Do you see the difference in Greek terms for rock or pebble? What did the Greek for Peter's name mean and how does it differ from petra?

 

[Dogknox20]

Thank you, I hope you also are doing well.
Just to clarify, I don't believe that Jesus meant Peter was the "rock" on which he based his church. Yes, Peter would glorify God. I'd like to discuss this as much as possible and slowly, because it can be a huge subject for some.
So going over the word 'rock,' we could certainly recognize that the church of Christ is not a literal building of stone, because we know that God “does not live in temples made by man.")
(Acts 17:24 - The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,)
Matthew 16:18 has two usages of the word for 'rock,' or pebble(s). Notice what one dictionary says about this (regarding the Greek term for Peter's name).
4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros ("small stone") then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra ("cliff, boulder," Abbott-Smith).
"4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff" (TDNT, 3, 100). "4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff" (S. Zodhiates, Dict).
(Not the same as the second use of the Greek word which refers to JESUS alone (with his Father, of course).
Matthew 16:18 - And I tell you that you are Peter [petros], and on this rock [petra] I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Petra is the rock (Jesus). He was referring to himself as the Rock on which the church is founded.
Do you see the difference in Greek terms for rock or pebble? What did the Greek for Peter's name mean and how does it differ from petra?

I reply... What you believ is NOT what the early Church believed! They all taught Peter was the Chief Apostle the AUTHORITY the Key holder!
Documented History PROVES Peter the first Sheppard! 265 Popes in an unbroken chain back to Peter from today.

 

[metis]

Thank you, I hope you also are doing well.
Just to clarify, I don't believe that Jesus meant Peter was the "rock" on which he based his church. Yes, Peter would glorify God. I'd like to discuss this as much as possible and slowly, because it can be a huge subject for some.
So going over the word 'rock,' we could certainly recognize that the church of Christ is not a literal building of stone, because we know that God “does not live in temples made by man.")
(Acts 17:24 - The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,)
Matthew 16:18 has two usages of the word for 'rock,' or pebble(s). Notice what one dictionary says about this (regarding the Greek term for Peter's name).
4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros ("small stone") then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra ("cliff, boulder," Abbott-Smith).
"4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff" (TDNT, 3, 100). "4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff" (S. Zodhiates, Dict).
(Not the same as the second use of the Greek word which refers to JESUS alone (with his Father, of course).
Matthew 16:18 - And I tell you that you are Peter [petros], and on this rock [petra] I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Petra is the rock (Jesus). He was referring to himself as the Rock on which the church is founded.
Do you see the difference in Greek terms for rock or pebble? What did the Greek for Peter's name mean and how does it differ from petra?

What you are missing is that when Kephas was translated From the Aramaic into Koine Greek, they had to use the masculine form for Peter ("Petros") because he's a male. Also, the introductory of that verse shows Jesus' intent was as being a play on words.

 

[Dogknox20]

What you are missing is that when Kephas was translated From the Aramaic into Koine Greek, they had to use the masculine form for Peter ("Petros") because he's a male. Also, the introductory of that verse shows Jesus' intent was as being a play on words.

metis right.... In Aramaic; Rock means ROCK! Jesus spoke Aramaic! There are too many proofs saying Peter was ROCK to fall for their "Pebble" theory! FACT Remains... Peter is the Key holder Keys to heaven given in person by Jesus! Peter the Shepherd of God Holy Flock! Peter strengthens the others! Peter who raised the dead who walked on water! Peter whos shadow heals all it falls on! Peter the CHIEF Apostle!
Two Hundred Sixty Five (265) popes from today Francis going back in an UNBROKEN chain of popes to Peter the Key Holder! Just so much they are forced to reject to teach what they do they MUST reject Documented History Scriptures and LOGIC!!

 

[YoursTrue]

I reply... What you believ is NOT what the early Church believed! They all taught Peter was the Chief Apostle the AUTHORITY the Key holder!
Documented History PROVES Peter the first Sheppard! 265 Popes in an unbroken chain back to Peter from today.

Nonsense. Absolute pure nonsense. Documented "history"? Like what...the made up unbroken chain?? Who made that up?? And...then what?

 

[Dogknox20]

Nonsense. Absolute pure nonsense. Documented "history"? Like what...the made up unbroken chain?? Who made that up?? And...then what?

YoursTrue Documented historical history!!! The early Church fathers mention various Popes in their writings.. These documents cement the history from the many (Like you) that want to deny the truth!

St Peter; martyr; 42-67
2. St Linus, of Tuscia (Volterra?); martyr; 67-78
3. St Anacletus I, of Rome; martyr; 78-90 (?)
4. St Clement I, of the Roman Flavian gens; martyr; 90-99 (?)
5. St Evaristus, of Greece (or of Bethlehem); martyr; 99-105 (?)
6. St Alexander I, of Rome; martyr; 105-115 (?)
7. St Sixtus I, of Rome; martyr; 115-125 (?)
8. St Telesphorus, of Greece; martyr; 125-136 (?)
9. St Iginus, of Greece; martyr; 136-140 (?)
10. St Pius I, of Italy; martyr; 140-155 (?)
11. St Anicetus, of Syria; martyr; 155-166 (?)
12. St Soter, of Campania (Fundi?);martyr; 166-175 (?)
13. St Eleutherus, of Epirus(Nicopolis?); martyr; 175-189
14. St Victor I, of Africa; martyr; 189-199
15. St Zephyrinus, of Rome; martyr; 199-217
16. St Calixtus, of Rome; martyr; 217-222
[Hippolytus, 217-235]
17. St Urban I, of Rome; martyr; 222-230
18. St Pontianus, of Rome; martyr; 21 July 230-28 Sept 235
19. St Anterus, of Greece; martyr; 21 Nov 235-3 Jan 236
20. St Fabian, of Rome; martyr; 10 Jan 236-20 Jan 250
21. St Cornelius, of Rome; martyr; March 251-June 253
[Novatian, 251-258]
22. St Lucius I, of Rome; martyr; 25 June 253-5 March 254
23. St Stephen I, of Rome; martyr; 12 May 254-2 Aug 257
24. St Sixtus II, of Greece (?); martyr; 30 Aug 257-6 Aug 258
25. St Dionysius, of Magna Graecia (?); martyr; 22 July 259-26 Dec 268
26. St Felix I, of Rome; martyr; 5 Jan 269-30 Dec 274
27. St Eutychianus, of Luni; martyr; 4 Jan 275-7 Dec 283
28. St Gaius, of Dalmatia (Salona?); martyr; 17 Dec 283-22 April 296
29. St Marcellinus, of Rome; martyr; 30 June 296-25 Oct 304
30. St Marcellus I, of Rome; martyr; 27 May 308-16 Jan 309
31. St Eusebius, of Greece; martyr; 18 April 309-17 Aug 309 or 310
32. St Melchiades or Miltiades, of Africa; martyr; 2 July 311-11 Jan 314
33. St Sylvester I, of Rome; 31 Jan 314-31 Dec 335
34. St Mark, of Rome; 18 Jan 336-7 Oct 336
35. St Julius I, of Rome; 6 Feb 337-12 April 352
36. Liberius, of Rome; 17 May 352-22 Sept 366
[St Felix II, 355-22 Nov 365]
37. St Damasus I, of Spain; 1 Oct 366-11 Dec 384
[Ursinus, 366-367]
38. St Siricius, of Rome; 15 Dec 384-26 Nov 399
39. St Anastasius I, of Rome; 27 Nov 399-19 Dec 401
40. St Innocent I, of Albano; 22 Dec 401-12 March 417
41. St Zosimus, of Greece; 18 March 417-26 Dec 418
42. St Boniface I, of Rome; 29 Dec 418-4 Sept 422 [Eulalius, 27 Dec 418-3 April 419]
43. St Caelestinus I, of Campania; 10 Sept 422-27 July 432
44. St Sixtus III, of Rome; 3 July (?) 432-19 Aug 440
45. St Leo I the Great, of Tusculum; 29 Sept 440-10 Nov 461
46. St Hilarius, of Sardinia; 19 Nov 461-29 Feb 468
47. St Simplicius, of Tivoli; 3 March 468-10 March 483
48. St Felix III (II), of Rome, of the gens Anicia; 13 March 483-1 March 492
49. St Gelasius I, of Africa; 1 March 492-21 Nov 496
50. St Anastasius II, of Rome; 24 Nov 496-19 Nov 498
51. St Symmachus, of Sardinia; 22 Nov 498-19 July 514
[Laurentius, Nov 498-505]
52. St Hormisdas, of Frosinone; 20 July 514-6 Aug 523
53. St John I, of Tusculum; martyr; 13 Aug 523-18 May 526. Died at Ravenna
54. St Felix IV (III), of Samnium (Benevento?); 12 July 526-22 Sept 530
55. Boniface II, of Rome; 22 Sept 530-7 Oct 532
[Dioscurus, 22 Sept 530-14 Oct 530]
56. John II, of Rome; 2 Jan 533-8 May 535
57. St Agapitus I, of Rome; 13 May 535-22 April 536. Died at Constantinople
58. St Silverius, of Frosinone; martyr; 8 June 536-deposed 11 March 537. Died in exile on the island of Ponza 538 (?)
59. Vigilius, of Rome; June 538 (?)-7 June 555 (but elected 29 March 537). Died at Syracuse
60. Pelagius I, of Rome; 16 April 556-4 March 561
61. John III, of Rome; 17 July 561-13 July 574
62. Benedict I, of Rome; 2 June 575-30 July 579
63. Pelagius II, of Rome; 26 Nov 579-7 Feb 590
64. St Gregory I the Great, of Rome, of the gens Anicia; 3 Sept 590-13 March 604
65. Sabinianus, of Tusculum; 13 Sept 604-22 Feb 606
66. Boniface III, of Rome; 19 Feb 607-12 Nov 607
67. St Boniface IV, of Valeria de' Marsi; 25 Aug 608-8 May 615
68. St Deusdedit I, of Rome; 19 Oct 615-8 Nov 618
69. Boniface V, of Naples; 23 Dec 619-25 Oct 625
70. Honorius I, of Campania; 27 Oct 625-12 Oct 638
71. Severinus, of Rome; 28 May 640-2 Aug 640
72. John IV, of Dalmatia; 24 Dec 640-12 Oct 642
73. Theodore I, of Jerusalem (? Or Greece); 24 Nov 642-14 May 649
74. St Martin I, of Todi; martyr; 21 July 649-exiled 18 June 653-16 Sept 655. Died at Sebastopol
75. St Eugenius I, of Rome; 16 Sept 655-2 June 657
76. St Vitalian, of Segni; 30 July 657-27 Jan 672
77. Deusdedit II, of Rome; 11 April 672-17 June 676
78. Donus, of Rome; 2 Nov 676-11 April 678
79. St Agatho, of Sicily; 27 June 678-10 Jan 681
80. St Leo II, of Sicily; 17 Aug 682-3 July 683
81. St Benedict II, of Rome; 26 June 684-8 May 685
82. John V, of Antioch; 23 July 685-2 Aug 686..... ETC ETC ETC ETC
YoursTrue 265 popes from Peter to Frances! In an unbroken chain. Pope Frances has direct linage back to Peter the Key Holder!

 

[YoursTrue]

metis right.... In Aramaic; Rock means ROCK! Jesus spoke Aramaic! There are too many proofs saying Peter was ROCK to fall for their "Pebble" theory! FACT Remains... Peter is the Key holder Keys to heaven given in person by Jesus! Peter the Shepherd of God Holy Flock! Peter strengthens the others! Peter who raised the dead who walked on water! Peter whos shadow heals all it falls on! Peter the CHIEF Apostle!
Two Hundred Sixty Five (265) popes from today Francis going back in an UNBROKEN chain of popes to Peter the Key Holder! Just so much they are forced to reject to teach what they do they MUST reject Documented History Scriptures and LOGIC!!

You need to see the difference. Between petra (Rock) and Petros (boulder, cliff, pebbles). Lots and lots of people believed their poor little unbaptized babies were in limbo. Doesn't matter if it was not an "infallible" teaching. Etc and etc.

YoursTrue Documented historical history!!! The early Church fathers mention various Popes in their writings.. These documents cement the history from the many (Like you) that want to deny the truth!

St Peter; martyr; 42-67
2. St Linus, of Tuscia (Volterra?); martyr; 67-78
3. St Anacletus I, of Rome; martyr; 78-90 (?)
4. St Clement I, of the Roman Flavian gens; martyr; 90-99 (?)
5. St Evaristus, of Greece (or of Bethlehem); martyr; 99-105 (?)
6. St Alexander I, of Rome; martyr; 105-115 (?)
7. St Sixtus I, of Rome; martyr; 115-125 (?)
8. St Telesphorus, of Greece; martyr; 125-136 (?)
9. St Iginus, of Greece; martyr; 136-140 (?)
10. St Pius I, of Italy; martyr; 140-155 (?)
11. St Anicetus, of Syria; martyr; 155-166 (?)
12. St Soter, of Campania (Fundi?);martyr; 166-175 (?)
13. St Eleutherus, of Epirus(Nicopolis?); martyr; 175-189
14. St Victor I, of Africa; martyr; 189-199
15. St Zephyrinus, of Rome; martyr; 199-217
16. St Calixtus, of Rome; martyr; 217-222
[Hippolytus, 217-235]
17. St Urban I, of Rome; martyr; 222-230
18. St Pontianus, of Rome; martyr; 21 July 230-28 Sept 235
19. St Anterus, of Greece; martyr; 21 Nov 235-3 Jan 236
20. St Fabian, of Rome; martyr; 10 Jan 236-20 Jan 250
21. St Cornelius, of Rome; martyr; March 251-June 253
[Novatian, 251-258]
22. St Lucius I, of Rome; martyr; 25 June 253-5 March 254
23. St Stephen I, of Rome; martyr; 12 May 254-2 Aug 257
24. St Sixtus II, of Greece (?); martyr; 30 Aug 257-6 Aug 258
25. St Dionysius, of Magna Graecia (?); martyr; 22 July 259-26 Dec 268
26. St Felix I, of Rome; martyr; 5 Jan 269-30 Dec 274
27. St Eutychianus, of Luni; martyr; 4 Jan 275-7 Dec 283
28. St Gaius, of Dalmatia (Salona?); martyr; 17 Dec 283-22 April 296
29. St Marcellinus, of Rome; martyr; 30 June 296-25 Oct 304
30. St Marcellus I, of Rome; martyr; 27 May 308-16 Jan 309
31. St Eusebius, of Greece; martyr; 18 April 309-17 Aug 309 or 310
32. St Melchiades or Miltiades, of Africa; martyr; 2 July 311-11 Jan 314
33. St Sylvester I, of Rome; 31 Jan 314-31 Dec 335
34. St Mark, of Rome; 18 Jan 336-7 Oct 336
35. St Julius I, of Rome; 6 Feb 337-12 April 352
36. Liberius, of Rome; 17 May 352-22 Sept 366
[St Felix II, 355-22 Nov 365]
37. St Damasus I, of Spain; 1 Oct 366-11 Dec 384
[Ursinus, 366-367]
38. St Siricius, of Rome; 15 Dec 384-26 Nov 399
39. St Anastasius I, of Rome; 27 Nov 399-19 Dec 401
40. St Innocent I, of Albano; 22 Dec 401-12 March 417
41. St Zosimus, of Greece; 18 March 417-26 Dec 418
42. St Boniface I, of Rome; 29 Dec 418-4 Sept 422 [Eulalius, 27 Dec 418-3 April 419]
43. St Caelestinus I, of Campania; 10 Sept 422-27 July 432
44. St Sixtus III, of Rome; 3 July (?) 432-19 Aug 440
45. St Leo I the Great, of Tusculum; 29 Sept 440-10 Nov 461
46. St Hilarius, of Sardinia; 19 Nov 461-29 Feb 468
47. St Simplicius, of Tivoli; 3 March 468-10 March 483
48. St Felix III (II), of Rome, of the gens Anicia; 13 March 483-1 March 492
49. St Gelasius I, of Africa; 1 March 492-21 Nov 496
50. St Anastasius II, of Rome; 24 Nov 496-19 Nov 498
51. St Symmachus, of Sardinia; 22 Nov 498-19 July 514
[Laurentius, Nov 498-505]
52. St Hormisdas, of Frosinone; 20 July 514-6 Aug 523
53. St John I, of Tusculum; martyr; 13 Aug 523-18 May 526. Died at Ravenna
54. St Felix IV (III), of Samnium (Benevento?); 12 July 526-22 Sept 530
55. Boniface II, of Rome; 22 Sept 530-7 Oct 532
[Dioscurus, 22 Sept 530-14 Oct 530]
56. John II, of Rome; 2 Jan 533-8 May 535
57. St Agapitus I, of Rome; 13 May 535-22 April 536. Died at Constantinople
58. St Silverius, of Frosinone; martyr; 8 June 536-deposed 11 March 537. Died in exile on the island of Ponza 538 (?)
59. Vigilius, of Rome; June 538 (?)-7 June 555 (but elected 29 March 537). Died at Syracuse
60. Pelagius I, of Rome; 16 April 556-4 March 561
61. John III, of Rome; 17 July 561-13 July 574
62. Benedict I, of Rome; 2 June 575-30 July 579
63. Pelagius II, of Rome; 26 Nov 579-7 Feb 590
64. St Gregory I the Great, of Rome, of the gens Anicia; 3 Sept 590-13 March 604
65. Sabinianus, of Tusculum; 13 Sept 604-22 Feb 606
66. Boniface III, of Rome; 19 Feb 607-12 Nov 607
67. St Boniface IV, of Valeria de' Marsi; 25 Aug 608-8 May 615
68. St Deusdedit I, of Rome; 19 Oct 615-8 Nov 618
69. Boniface V, of Naples; 23 Dec 619-25 Oct 625
70. Honorius I, of Campania; 27 Oct 625-12 Oct 638
71. Severinus, of Rome; 28 May 640-2 Aug 640
72. John IV, of Dalmatia; 24 Dec 640-12 Oct 642
73. Theodore I, of Jerusalem (? Or Greece); 24 Nov 642-14 May 649
74. St Martin I, of Todi; martyr; 21 July 649-exiled 18 June 653-16 Sept 655. Died at Sebastopol
75. St Eugenius I, of Rome; 16 Sept 655-2 June 657
76. St Vitalian, of Segni; 30 July 657-27 Jan 672
77. Deusdedit II, of Rome; 11 April 672-17 June 676
78. Donus, of Rome; 2 Nov 676-11 April 678
79. St Agatho, of Sicily; 27 June 678-10 Jan 681
80. St Leo II, of Sicily; 17 Aug 682-3 July 683
81. St Benedict II, of Rome; 26 June 684-8 May 685
82. John V, of Antioch; 23 July 685-2 Aug 686..... ETC ETC ETC ETC
YoursTrue 265 popes from Peter to Frances! In an unbroken chain. Pope Frances has direct linage back to Peter the Key Holder!

Interesting that the first few were martyrs. And I realize you are a staunch Catholic. But when was the list started? (In writing, of course, claiming the line from Peter - Petros.)

 

[YoursTrue]

YoursTrue Documented historical history!!! The early Church fathers mention various Popes in their writings.. These documents cement the history from the many (Like you) that want to deny the truth!

OK Thanks for reply. So what "documents" you know about were started, and specifically when were these documents started, with what Pope, claiming succession from Peter (Petras)? Please do say. I understand that is what you've been taught, but other than just say it's documented, at least I can go back to the Bible and translations, and even dates estimated for documentation, but what about the documents starting with the claim of popes from Peter? This includes translations from the Greek to English. I'll do some more checking.
By the way, not to change subject but I was listening to Catholic radio station and they were talking about Mary's physical assumption to heaven. Where is this written (documented)?

 

[Dogknox20]

You need to see the difference. Between petra (Rock) and Petros (boulder, cliff, pebbles). Lots and lots of people believed their poor little unbaptized babies were in limbo. Doesn't matter if it was not an "infallible" teaching. Etc and etc.

Interesting that the first few were martyrs. And I realize you are a staunch Catholic. But when was the list started? (In writing, of course, claiming the line from Peter - Petros.)

I reply: I am not sure as to what you mean...Or what you are implying?!
Historical documented FACT...Peter is the first pope the first Shepherd! Jesus in person handed Peter the Key to heaven! Peter has AUTHORITY from God! Rock the word "Peter" means ROCK! Jesus named Simon PETER.. "ROCK"! Jesus tells you in Matthew his church will never fail.. Because it is NOT built on sand!

You mention Limbo!??? As I said said before.. It's an Historical FACT "limbo" was one idea discussed to explain where the unbaptized innocent people end up! It was an IDEA it was not made doctrine! You don't agree?? Then do your own homework! An infallible teaching is "The Trinity" not limbo!

 

[Dogknox20]

OK Thanks for reply. So what "documents" you know about were started, and specifically when were these documents started, with what Pope, claiming succession from Peter (Petras)? Please do say. I understand that is what you've been taught, but other than just say it's documented, at least I can go back to the Bible and translations, and even dates estimated for documentation, but what about the documents starting with the claim of popes from Peter? This includes translations from the Greek to English. I'll do some more checking.
By the way, not to change subject but I was listening to Catholic radio station and they were talking about Mary's physical assumption to heaven. Where is this written (documented)?

OK Thanks for reply. So what "documents" you know about were started, and specifically when were these documents started, with what Pope, claiming succession from Peter (Petras)? Please do say. I understand that is what you've been taught, but other than just say it's documented, at least I can go back to the Bible and translations, and even dates estimated for documentation, but what about the documents starting with the claim of popes from Peter? This includes translations from the Greek to English. I'll do some more checking.
By the way, not to change subject but I was listening to Catholic radio station and they were talking about Mary's physical assumption to heaven. Where is this written (documented)?

Documents.... From the early Church Fathers...(below). You have a LIST of Popes you have historical letters of the early Church CLEARLY
YoursTrue clearly the One Church Jesus formed can only be the Holy Catholic Church with Peter the first Shepherd the Key Holder as the first POPE!
Tatian the Syrian
“Simon Cephas answered and said, ‘You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus answered and said unto him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah: flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee also, that you are Cephas, and on this rock will I build my Church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it” (The Diatesseron 23 [A.D. 170]).

Tertullian
“Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called ‘the rock on which the Church would be built’ [Matt. 16:18] with the power of ‘loosing and binding in heaven and on earth’ [Matt. 16:19]?” (Demurrer Against the Heretics 22 [A.D. 200]).

Irenaeus
“The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome] . . . handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus” (Against Heresies 3:3:3 [A.D. 189]).

The Little Labyrinth
“Victor . . . was the thirteenth bishop of Rome from Peter” (The Little Labyrinth [A.D. 211], in Eusebius, Church History 5:28:3).

Cyprian of Carthage
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. . . . If someone [today] does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; first edition [A.D. 251]).

etc

 

[metis]

Documents.... From the early Church Fathers...(below). You have a LIST of Popes you have historical letters of the early Church CLEARLY
YoursTrue clearly the One Church Jesus formed can only be the Holy Catholic Church with Peter the first Shepherd the Key Holder as the first POPE!
Tatian the Syrian
“Simon Cephas answered and said, ‘You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus answered and said unto him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah: flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee also, that you are Cephas, and on this rock will I build my Church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it” (The Diatesseron 23 [A.D. 170]).

Tertullian
“Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called ‘the rock on which the Church would be built’ [Matt. 16:18] with the power of ‘loosing and binding in heaven and on earth’ [Matt. 16:19]?” (Demurrer Against the Heretics 22 [A.D. 200]).

Irenaeus
“The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome] . . . handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus” (Against Heresies 3:3:3 [A.D. 189]).

The Little Labyrinth
“Victor . . . was the thirteenth bishop of Rome from Peter” (The Little Labyrinth [A.D. 211], in Eusebius, Church History 5:28:3).

Cyprian of Carthage
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. . . . If someone [today] does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; first edition [A.D. 251]).

etc

But more than just the successors of Peter as being the Bishop of Rome, there's also the successors of the other bishops as well as the Church was doing its best to operate as being the "one body", as Paul called the Church, and to continue on with Jesus' teachings.

 

[Misty Woods]

Misty Woods I hope all is well....
In reply; you quote scriptures? Do I need to point out to you one more time.... The bible was made by the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church NONE OTHER! Until the Holy Church put all the truly inspired letters into one book NO ONE was sure what was inspired and what was not! Many were confused by the uninspired letters kicking around! The Holy CHURCH needed an authority too decide what was God' word to end all the confusion! In 400 A.D. the Catholic Church NONE OTHER with the help of the Holy Spirt put all the inspired works into one place and she also rejected the uninspired phony letters! The Holy Spirit helped her to put the bible together AND to this day the Holy Spirit is FOREVER helping; The One Holy Catholic Church in the INTERPRATION of the very same scriptures!

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
Misty Woods The Holy Spirit did not start with your church.... The Holy Spirit is FOREVER WITH the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established on ROCK not on sand! YOU....
Misty Woods you are forced to reject the scriptures to be a JW! QUESTION: Did Jesus lie? Did the Holy Spirit abandon Jesus' holy body, is the Holy Spirit FOREVER WITH the Church Jesus established?!
QUESTION: "Did Jesus build on ROCK or sand?" Did the Church Jesus established before he left earth; fail?! Again "Did Jesus lie?!"
John 14:25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Again... The Holy Spirit guided the Church in making the bible? will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Misty Woods Question... "Did Jesus lie.. Is the Holy Spirit FOREVER WITH Jesus' Holy Catholic Body"!? Is the Holy Spirit FOEVER GUIDING the Catholic Church into all truth!? Y or N!? To say NO you must reject the scriptures! Christians believe the scriptures! The Jehovah Witness MUST reject the or rewrite the scriptures to be in Protest against Jesus and his Holy Blameless Church!

YOU POST SCRIPTURES.. ??? As if they were yours to post!? The Scriptures are written by the Church Jesus established for his CHURCH.. NOT YOURS! Your church came along 2000 years after Jesus established his Holy Church on ROCK! Clearly to be a JW you have to; you MUST reject the scriptures! Jesus PROMISED in the scriptures.. "He will ALWAYS BE WITH HIS CHURCH!" ALWAYS Means; he did not leave his bride for your man made church!

Misty Woods You quote scripture prophesy, end times. (above)??? I point out from the scriptures there will be Anti-Christs! ** "Anti-Christ" is him who rejects Jesus and his holy Blameless Catholic Apostolic Church!
** Anti-Christ preaches the Church Jesus guaranteed to never fail built on ROCK; will fail! ** Anti-Christ twists the words of God or even rewrites the words of God!
** Anti-Christ will preach the date and time of the worlds end!
Mark 13:32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Misty Woods Answer the QUESTIONS above!

Good Day to you Dogknox20,


I am doing well, thank you for your kind thought.


I am fully aware of the pagan ruler Constantine, that history shows, did push the Roman Catholic Church leaders through it’s councils, by both the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox Churches. The body of doctrine forged at these councils included the Trinity, belief in Mary as the “mother of God” and other dogmas that have nothing to do with Biblical Christianity. These church councils also condemned various “heresies,” thus contributing to the creation of still further subdivisions (sects) of apostate Christianity. With all of her unscriptural doctrines, that do certainly come from pagan traditions, your church has done exactly what Jehovah warned us about 2 Cor 6:14 Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers.+ For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?+ Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al?+ Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever?+ 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols?+ For we are a temple of a living God;+ just as God said: “I will reside among them+ and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”+ 17 “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”;+ “‘and I will take you in.’”+ 18 “‘And I will become a Father to you,+ and you will become sons and daughters to me,’+ says Jehovah, the Almighty.”



I must say Dogknox20, if you were to redirect your tenacity that you obviously have for the catholic church, to what is actually written, for our instruction, right there in black and white, throughout the entire Holy Scriptures, what a fine teacher of truth that sets people free you would be.

 

[Dogknox20]

Good Day to you Dogknox20,


I am doing well, thank you for your kind thought.


I am fully aware of the pagan ruler Constantine, that history shows, did push the Roman Catholic Church leaders through it’s councils, by both the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox Churches. The body of doctrine forged at these councils included the Trinity, belief in Mary as the “mother of God” and other dogmas that have nothing to do with Biblical Christianity. These church councils also condemned various “heresies,” thus contributing to the creation of still further subdivisions (sects) of apostate Christianity. With all of her unscriptural doctrines, that do certainly come from pagan traditions, your church has done exactly what Jehovah warned us about 2 Cor 6:14 Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers.+ For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?+ Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al?+ Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever?+ 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols?+ For we are a temple of a living God;+ just as God said: “I will reside among them+ and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”+ 17 “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”;+ “‘and I will take you in.’”+ 18 “‘And I will become a Father to you,+ and you will become sons and daughters to me,’+ says Jehovah, the Almighty.”



I must say Dogknox20, if you were to redirect your tenacity that you obviously have for the catholic church, to what is actually written, for our instruction, right there in black and white, throughout the entire Holy Scriptures, what a fine teacher of truth that sets people free you would be.

Hello Misty Woods to say what you said above you MUST reject the words of God! The One Holy Catholic Church made the bible! You MUST accept she got it right otherwise you can't be sure the various books you read in the bible are truly God inspired! It is just this simple! Reject the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church then reject your bible!

Scriptures tell you "Jesus is ALWAYS with his church" you reject this scriptures you MUST to be JW!
Scriptures tell you "The Holy Spirit is ALWAYS with his church FOREVER"! You reject this scriptures you MUST reject it to be JW!
Scriptures tell you "The Church Jesus built is built on ROCK not on sand!" Again you MUST reject this scriptures to be JW!
Scriptures tell you... "The Holy Spirit will guide the Church INTO ALL TRUTH"! "
Scriptures tell you... "Listen to the Church, or be treated as pagan, a person outside of God' family!" "
Scriptures tell you Misty Woods "He who hears the Church hears Jesus, he who rejects the Church rejects Jesus and thus GOD!"! You MUST reject this scriptures to be JW!
Scriptures tell you... "From NOW ON (2000 years ago) all Mary's Children will honor Mary as Blessed!" Misty Woods this PROPHESY can NOT apply to you or your church it was NOT around 2000 years ago.. Proving you are NOT in Mary' family! You are NOT in Mary's family so Jesus cannot be your brother. You are NOT in Mary's family Jesus cannot be your brother so God cannot be your father.. It is Just this simple!
Scriptures tell you "Saved by the Blood of Jesus" Misty Woods you cannot be saved by the Blood of Jesus because you do NOT drink the blood! Look at 1 Cor 11 the Apostles DRANK the blood!
Scriptures tell you "Jesus died for his Church!" You reject this verse as another lie!
Scriptures tell you "Jesus loves his church, his Church is Holy and blameless!" You reject this verse also! You say the Church Jesus formed failed it was NOT holy it was NOT guided by the Holy Spirit!
etc
Misty Woods The scriptures were written By Catholic's the Catholic Church made her bible!
The Church came before the bible!

The Bibles tells us go into all the world Teach & Preach the One Holy Catholic Church brought Jesus and salvation to the world for the first sixteen Hundred years THERE Weren't Bibles. The Catholic Church PREACHED to save souls!

 

[Dogknox20]

Good Day to you Dogknox20,

Continuation of #695
I asked you in a previous post a couple questions.... You did not answer them.. Why!?
Here they are one more time! Be honest!
Misty Woods QUESTION: Did Jesus lie? Did the Holy Spirit abandon Jesus' holy body CHURCH; is the Holy Spirit FOREVER WITH the Church Jesus established?! Y N
&
QUESTION: "Did Jesus build on ROCK or on sand?" Did the Church Jesus established before he left earth; actually fail?! Again "Did Jesus lie?!" Are the scriptures a LIE!?

 

[cataway]

the fact of the matter remains ,Jesus is the rock, even the corner stone. it is on him that the kingdom is built.

 

[Dogknox20]

the fact of the matter remains ,Jesus is the rock, even the corner stone. it is on him that the kingdom is built.

cataway Right you are: The Body of Jesus IS>>> "His Church it can only be the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church!" The Body of Jesus will never fail.... He gave Peter the Keys to heaven, PETER The first shepherd!

 

[cataway]

cataway Right you are: The Body of Jesus IS>>> "His Church it can only be the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church!" The Body of Jesus will never fail.... He gave Peter the Keys to heaven, PETER The first shepherd!

well ...... your kinda right .
the apostle Peter was given “the keys of the kingdom of the heavens” so that people of any race could learn about God’s purposes, be “born again” from holy spirit, and become spiritual heirs with Christ. (Matthew 16:19; John 3:1-8) Peter used three symbolic keys. The first was for Jews, the second for Samaritans, and the third for Gentiles. (Acts 2:14-42; 8:14-17; 10:24-28, 42-48) Thus the impartial God, Jehovah, opened to chosen ones of all races the privilege of being Jesus’ spiritual brothers and joint heirs of the Kingdom.

 

[Dogknox20]

well ...... your kinda right .
the apostle Peter was given “the keys of the kingdom of the heavens” so that people of any race could learn about God’s purposes, be “born again” from holy spirit, and become spiritual heirs with Christ. (Matthew 16:19; John 3:1-8) Peter used three symbolic keys. The first was for Jews, the second for Samaritans, and the third for Gentiles. (Acts 2:14-42; 8:14-17; 10:24-28, 42-48) Thus the impartial God, Jehovah, opened to chosen ones of all races the privilege of being Jesus’ spiritual brothers and joint heirs of the Kingdom.

cataway you have a nice story..... But the scriptures say different... For Jesus to be your brother you MUST be IMMERSED into his holy body... The CHURCH!
To be re-born you must be ADDED to his holy body; The Church!
Scriptures are very clear.. 3000 people were ADDED to the body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost by Baptism!
Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

catway disciples are made by baptism!
Matthew 28..."Go into all the world MAKE Disciples of all nations BAPTIZING"!

Disciples are brothers of Jesus!
Matthew 12... "Pointing to his DISCIPLES Jesus said "Here are my BROTHERS"!

Jesus would be made your BROTHER by BAPTISM! IF....
cataway if Jesus is NOT your brother then God CANNOT be your father; It is just that simple! If Jesus was your brother then logic says "Mary would be your mother!" BUT....
cataway but Mary cannot be your mother so it is very obvious Jesus cannot be your brother! Mary cannot be your mother scriptures are clear....
Luke 1:46 And Mary said:
“My soul glorifies the Lord
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
50 His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.

Verse 48 (above) the From NOW ON is a prophesy! This prophesy started as the words left Mary's mouth!
cataway For Two Thousand years Catholics have honored Mary as blessed! Clearly Catholics are in the "Generational" Family of Mary! We are in the Generation to generation that honor her as blessed two thousand years of Mary's generational family!
Mary cannot be your Mother you do NOT have roots going back two thousand years to her prophesy you are NOT in her family you reject Mary & you reject Baptism!
Mary is not your mother so Jesus cannot be your brother! Jesus HONORS Mary his mother "HE MUST HONOR MARY"; It is commanded "Honor your mother"! IF...
cataway if Jesus did not honor Mary his mother he would be sinning!
Jesus is my brother thus God is my Father thus Mary is my Mother, Catholic's have ALWAYS honored Mary our mother as scriptures prophesied! The JW's are NOT spiritual heirs they reject Mary and Baptism! (I have much more to point out to you....)
Have a good day Dogknox20