The Kingdom of Heaven is within you

[godnotgod]

You have to first recognize the illusory nature of our perceptions of reality, then after if it falls away, we see the world as it is.

I like the way Zen talks about this:

"When I began my study of Zen, mountains were just mountains, and trees just trees;
During my study, mountains were no longer mountains, and trees no longer trees;
When I realized my enlightenment, mountains were once again mountains, and trees once again trees"

 

[Super Universe]

So are you saying that Paradise is not on this earth?

If you know something to be illusory, then that by which you know it must therefore be non-illusory, by definition. What is the nature of that state of awareness? What I am saying is that, if illusion exists, then the state of non-illusion must also exist, and that there is a way of knowing the difference with certitude.

Paradise is not on the earth? The idea of paradise that I was tring to convey was heaven. There are some very lovely places on the earth but the earth has about another 2.8 billion years before the sun expands into a red giant and engulfs the planet.

If I know something to be an illusion then the knowledge of it must come from non-illusion? Or, it could be just another illusion.

What is the nature of awareness? Simple instinctual awareness is what animals have. Human awareness is more complex, a part of it is the ability to identify yourself.

If the state of illusion exists then the state of non-illusion must also exist? No, a state of non-illusion does not have to exist. You're trying to create rules that the universe does not have to follow.

 

[godnotgod]

Paradise is not on the earth? The idea of paradise that I was tring to convey was heaven. There are some very lovely places on the earth but the earth has about another 2.8 billion years before the sun expands into a red giant and engulfs the planet.

So where do you suppose Paradise/Heaven is located? Yeshua told us that it lies within.

If I know something to be an illusion then the knowledge of it must come from non-illusion? Or, it could be just another illusion.

If you are in a state of illusion, how can you know the difference between illusion and reality? The only way is for you to be in a state of non-illusion. If you are going to tell me that everything is illusion, then with what kind of mind are you determining that to be the case?

What is the nature of awareness? Simple instinctual awareness is what animals have. Human awareness is more complex, a part of it is the ability to identify yourself.

No, no. My question was with what kind of awareness are you determining that something is illusory?

If the state of illusion exists then the state of non-illusion must also exist? No, a state of non-illusion does not have to exist. You're trying to create rules that the universe does not have to follow.

OK, let's go with your logic: so if non-illusion is non-mandatory for illusion to exist, then once again, how are you able to determine that illusion is what it is? IOW, what is the state of your mentality when saying: 'this is an illusion'.

 

[Super Universe]

So where do you suppose Paradise/Heaven is located? Yeshua told us that it lies within.



If you are in a state of illusion, how can you know the difference between illusion and reality? The only way is for you to be in a state of non-illusion. If you are going to tell me that everything is illusion, then with what kind of mind are you determining that to be the case?



No, no. My question was with what kind of awareness are you determining that something is illusory?



OK, let's go with your logic: so if non-illusion is non-mandatory for illusion to exist, then once again, how are you able to determine that illusion is what it is? IOW, what is the state of your mentality when saying: 'this is an illusion'.

Where is heaven? It's no distance from you. It is backwards in time all the way to the very beginning.

Jesus said that the Kingdom of God lies within? Yes, the soul is a fragment of God. It connects with the human mind in heaven so it can gain experience. As you've said, none of this is real. It's all an illusion or hologram. The universe is a projection, a movie, and God is the movie projector. We are also a projection, we're in the movie.

If you are in an illusion, how can you know the difference between the illusion and reality? You can't.

What kind of mind can realize that it's in an illusion? A sentient mind, a human mind. We have awareness of ourselves and of our environment but we also have emotions and an ego that influence our acceptance of reality. We believe what we want to believe. It can't really be an illusion because we don't want it to be. There can't be aliens because we don't want there to be any. God can't be uninvolved because we want Him to be all about us.

How am I able to determine that we are in an illlusion? Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

 

[Windwalker]

Where is heaven? It's no distance from you. It is backwards in time all the way to the very beginning.

I'm going to jump in here if you don't mind. Actually, if you wish to equate heaven with the Eternal, which I have no problem with, it exists outside time, and time exists does not exist separate to it. We say "beginning and end" but that's just a metaphor. It's like the paper all the lines of creation are drawn upon. It's not the lines, let alone a separate line, but the lines are dependent upon the paper in order to be a line at all.

Jesus said that the Kingdom of God lies within? Yes, the soul is a fragment of God.

I'm not sure how one can divide God. How can you fragment God? I'll put it this way, if you have a fragment of God, that fragment is God and is therefore Infinite in being in itself. That Infinite Self is what is in each of us individually, not partial fragments of a whole.

It connects with the human mind in heaven so it can gain experience.

The human mind connects with its Source, and from this the mind is awakened to its Self. We can literally see God. "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God".

As you've said, none of this is real. It's all an illusion or hologram. The universe is a projection, a movie, and God is the movie projector. We are also a projection, we're in the movie.

I would not agree none of this is real. It is real. But what the illusion is what our thinking, reasoning, model-making minds present to us as reality and we mistakenly assume that what we think about reality actually IS reality. That, and that alone, is the illusion. It's not that the material world isn't really there, but that what we think it is, is actually just a reflection of our mind's way of mapping it out to ourselves, including who and what we think we ourselves are as human individuals and collectively.

If you are in an illusion, how can you know the difference between the illusion and reality? You can't.

Because you are not in an illusion. What you imagine is reality is the illusion. When you "wake up", when you "see God", then it becomes readily apparent that what you were thinking you were seeing was but a mere reflection of your own thoughts and ideas. At that moment, it becomes apparent that you were in effect, asleep your whole life, and you have now woken up from a dream, an illusion.

How can you have this mind that can see? You open to God within, and your eyes are opened. It is the very definition of Christ Consciousness. The Mind of God. We all have that as God is not partial in anything, or anyone, nor can be. I have a way I like to say this. We are all already fully Enlightened, but most are simply not enlightened to the Reality of that yet.

What kind of mind can realize that it's in an illusion?

The Mind of God.

A sentient mind, a human mind.

The transpersonal, transegoic mind, not the egoic mind. It is not realized in your thoughts and ideas, concepts and models, philosophies and religions, but beyond all this, and before all this.

We have awareness of ourselves and of our environment but we also have emotions and an ego that influence our acceptance of reality. We believe what we want to believe.

Which is why we must move beyond that. God is realized, literally, "beyond belief." To quote from the Christian mystic Meister Eckhart, "I pray God make me free of God, that I may know God in his unconditioned being". You must get rid of all you think, feel, or believe, empty yourself completely of self, of ego, and then you will see what has always been there all along, from before you were even born. God has never been anywhere but fully already and always in all things and in you.

It can't really be an illusion because we don't want it to be.

Realizing our minds create an illusion of reality can actually be understood and acknowledged on a rational basis alone, however, one is not struck by just how deep or true that is until their eyes have actually been opened in the experience of that itself. Then you know it, and understand it from the set of eyes that has seen it as it is.

How am I able to determine that we are in an illlusion? Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

No, not that way. Try meditation for starters. You have to see through the eyes of contemplation.

 

[godnotgod]

Where is heaven? It's no distance from you. It is backwards in time all the way to the very beginning.

Jesus said that the Kingdom of God lies within? Yes, the soul is a fragment of God. It connects with the human mind in heaven so it can gain experience. As you've said, none of this is real. It's all an illusion or hologram. The universe is a projection, a movie, and God is the movie projector. We are also a projection, we're in the movie.

If you are in an illusion, how can you know the difference between the illusion and reality? You can't.

What kind of mind can realize that it's in an illusion? A sentient mind, a human mind. We have awareness of ourselves and of our environment but we also have emotions and an ego that influence our acceptance of reality. We believe what we want to believe. It can't really be an illusion because we don't want it to be. There can't be aliens because we don't want there to be any. God can't be uninvolved because we want Him to be all about us.

How am I able to determine that we are in an illlusion? Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

Tell me something SV: You sound as if you believe in The Kingdom of God, and that you have a soul that comes from God. If that is so, and if you are living properly in the Kingdom of God, does that mean you are now not dwelling in illusion?

 

[Super Universe]

Tell me something SV: You sound as if you believe in The Kingdom of God, and that you have a soul that comes from God. If that is so, and if you are living properly in the Kingdom of God, does that mean you are now not dwelling in illusion?

I believe in the Kingdom of God? I'm not sure what your idea of the Kingdom of God is. God exists. Heaven exists. God is not involved with any species in any way other than doing the things that only God can do. God creates the universe, He creates the illusion. God provides personality. God separates into fragments that connect with the sentient beings in the illusion to gain experience.

Am I dwelling in an illusion? We all are and when we die we will awaken on another level of the illusion where we will be taught true God Theory. We ascend through the levels and eventually make it to heaven. Heaven is non-illusion. It is not space/time. Heaven is the only real thing.

But, there is no way for you or anyone to know whether heaven isn't just another illusion. You're in God's universe. It's not yours. God did it His way. He will allow you to come into His house but you're never going to get the password to His main computer.

 

[godnotgod]

Tell me something SV: You sound as if you believe in The Kingdom of God, and that you have a soul that comes from God. If that is so, and if you are living properly in the Kingdom of God, does that mean you are now not dwelling in illusion?

I believe in the Kingdom of God? I'm not sure what your idea of the Kingdom of God is. God exists. Heaven exists. God is not involved with any species in any way other than doing the things that only God can do. God creates the universe, He creates the illusion. God provides personality. God separates into fragments that connect with the sentient beings in the illusion to gain experience.

Am I dwelling in an illusion? We all are and when we die we will awaken on another level of the illusion where we will be taught true God Theory. We ascend through the levels and eventually make it to heaven. Heaven is non-illusion. It is not space/time. Heaven is the only real thing.

But, there is no way for you or anyone to know whether heaven isn't just another illusion. You're in God's universe. It's not yours. God did it His way. He will allow you to come into His house but you're never going to get the password to His main computer.

If you cannot distinguish between illusion and reality, then what good is heaven? You said heaven is the only real thing. How would you know that unless you know the difference between illusion and reality? C'mon, now, let's use our noggins, OK?

 

[Super Universe]

Tell me something SV: You sound as if you believe in The Kingdom of God, and that you have a soul that comes from God. If that is so, and if you are living properly in the Kingdom of God, does that mean you are now not dwelling in illusion?



If you cannot distinguish between illusion and reality, then what good is heaven? You said heaven is the only real thing. How would you know that unless you know the difference between illusion and reality? C'mon, now, let's use our noggins, OK?

If you cannot distinguish between illusion and reality then what good is heaven? You think everything should be as you want it to be but who are you, what have you done, where have you gone?

You exist to serve God. If you don't like it you can quit the universal ascension and cease to exist. The universe will go on without you.

How would I know that heaven is the only real thing if I did not know the difference between illusion and reality? You think that having the ability to imagine a concept means that the concept has to be real and achievable. It doesn't.

Heaven is not called an illusion because it's not a holographic projection like the universe is, at least, that's what the information says. We can imagine that there is a difference between illusion and reality but there is no way to know for sure. Scientists may even be able to measure a difference from one level to another but each level will have the same rules of physics, gravity, heat, light and dark.

In heaven beings have increased awareness and super telepathy but there is no way to know that heaven is not just another, better illusion.

 

[godnotgod]

If you cannot distinguish between illusion and reality then what good is heaven? You think everything should be as you want it to be but who are you, what have you done, where have you gone?

You exist to serve God. If you don't like it you can quit the universal ascension and cease to exist. The universe will go on without you.

How would I know that heaven is the only real thing if I did not know the difference between illusion and reality? You think that having the ability to imagine a concept means that the concept has to be real and achievable. It doesn't.

Heaven is not called an illusion because it's not a holographic projection like the universe is, at least, that's what the information says. We can imagine that there is a difference between illusion and reality but there is no way to know for sure. Scientists may even be able to measure a difference from one level to another but each level will have the same rules of physics, gravity, heat, light and dark.

In heaven beings have increased awareness and super telepathy but there is no way to know that heaven is not just another, better illusion.

You are contradicting yourself. You just said that "heaven is the only real thing". Your saying that means that you can distinguish the difference between reality and illusion right now. So what is the state of your consciousness right now that allows you to do that?

I am not saying that the concept is real and achievable; I am saying that the self that creates such concepts is an illusion, and when consciousness without a self realizes this, then the difference between reality and illusion becomes apparent. This realization is due to the fact that you are already in Paradise, but fail to realize it because the self creates a concept of Paradise as being in some future time and space. Yeshua did not say: 'The Kingdom of God is going to be within you"; he said it is there, now.

If heaven is just another illusion, then how can it be heaven? We suffer because we live in illusion and delusion. Heaven is the end of that. It is the awakening to true Reality, and it is via this true Reality that suffering comes to an end and our eyes are opened so we can see things as they are, rather than how we think they are when we are in the state of illusion/delusion.

 

[Super Universe]

You are contradicting yourself. You just said that "heaven is the only real thing". Your saying that means that you can distinguish the difference between reality and illusion right now. So what is the state of your consciousness right now that allows you to do that?

I am not saying that the concept is real and achievable; I am saying that the self that creates such concepts is an illusion, and when consciousness without a self realizes this, then the difference between reality and illusion becomes apparent. This realization is due to the fact that you are already in Paradise, but fail to realize it because the self creates a concept of Paradise as being in some future time and space. Yeshua did not say: 'The Kingdom of God is going to be within you"; he said it is there, now.

If heaven is just another illusion, then how can it be heaven? We suffer because we live in illusion and delusion. Heaven is the end of that. It is the awakening to true Reality, and it is via this true Reality that suffering comes to an end and our eyes are opened so we can see things as they are, rather than how we think they are when we are in the state of illusion/delusion.

I'm not contradicting myself. Heaven is the only real thing, then again, maybe it's not. I haven't been there yet and even if I had been there it could still be just another illusion. The information that I believe is that heaven is real, which means it's not part of the hologram that is the universe. But, as I said, and you have trouble understanding, there's no way to know that heaven is real even if you did go there. Just because something seems real doesn't mean it is. We think the earth is real and it's not.

The state of my consciousness is just fine, how about yours?

If you meditate and remove self the consciousness realizes the difference between illusion and reality? The thing you are calling consciousness is self. You think that because you've trained your mind to not crowd you with constant thoughts that what is left is pure consciousness with no self. It's still self. It's just self that can meditate.

The self doesn't create a concept of illusion. Only God can create. No other being, not even angels, not even Jesus can create. When new ideas are given to humanity it comes from God and we distribute them and humans recycle them over and over and over. Almost all of the ideas you've ever had have come from someone else.

Jesus did not say that The Kingdom of God is going to be within you? He didn't. The soul does have a connection with me now, in this time. But I'm not the soul, yet. My soul has not joined with the mind permanently yet and even when it does my mind still has a lot to learn.

Consciousness without self? Doesn't exist. You have very strange goals. You don't want to dream or imagine, that's fine, waste all day sitting around and struggling to quiet your mind. Nothing will get fixed. Nothing will get improved. No child will be taught. No crops will be harvested. Nothing new explored. I don't want your illusion.

If heaven is just another illusion, how can it be heaven? You're trying to force your ideals on the universe. The universe does not have to exist the way you think it should.

 

[MansFriend]

Someone at RF reminded me recently that the Kingdom of Heaven is within

Luke 17:21
King James Bible
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

That is a beautiful reality to meditate on, but what does it mean? When I think of a Kingdom I think of a civilization. Surely it doesn't mean we have a bunch of Angels, structures, and departed souls living within us does it?

What I have come to understand is that in the end times the literal political kingdom of God is established.
This corresponds with the prophesies that talk about the future coming of the Father's Kingdom Jesus prayed about.
And, I have learned that the end-times also corresponds with the begin-times, so it is also a new beginning simultaneously.
Therefore, it is a prophecy of when the new Adam of a new heavens and a new earth is ushered in and available.
But, because people don't understand how a new Adam comes and does what an Adam is supposed to do, they mock Him.
Adam also has His Bride Eve, who is the covenant body of the Church, who is beguiled and the Saints are overcome.
Therefore, the fall of Adam and Eve is representative of the times of trouble they go through where they are driven out.
They lose their place in the Garden of Eden paradise and are driven out into the lone and dreary wilderness.
This is when and where the adversary (the Serpent or Dragon) seeks to destroy the woman and her "manchild".

So, what I'm getting at is the Kingdom has already been established by way of Michael-Adam coming in the end-times.
But, because the new Adam and Eve of the new heavens and new earth have transgressed and fallen they need redemption.
This is why the "woman driven into the wilderness" gives birth to a very special son called the "manchild".
The Father Adam gives all power and dominion to this worthy Son who will rise up and bring in His Kingdom in victory.
So, this scripture is saying when the Son of Man comes, the Kingdom (Adam) will already be in the midst of the people.
However, it is in a transgressed and fallen state and so the Son of Man will need to facilitate its cleansing and setting in order.

Just as Eve is representative of the Church as a collective whole of several individuals joined together in a covenant,
so too is Adam a representation of a collective of people joined together in a Priesthood covenant of leadership and dominion.
Therefore, the offspring of Adam and Eve would also be a similar type of body that is composed of individuals as its members.
So, this is why it wouldn't be correct for someone to say "Lo here" or "Lo there" because the Kingdom is spread out in the midst.
It isn't a single person in flesh and blood we are looking for that someone can point to in one single direction and locate.
It's a single being of flesh and bone, which is a plurality of individuals joined together in a covenant body, being talked about.
The Apostle Paul talks at length about how individuals can be the members of the flesh and bone body of Christ. (Eph 5:30)

If you want to see the Son of Man, then you should look for a distinct priesthood body born of the Adam and Eve bodies.

 

[godnotgod]

I'm not contradicting myself. Heaven is the only real thing, then again, maybe it's not. I haven't been there yet and even if I had been there it could still be just another illusion. The information that I believe is that heaven is real, which means it's not part of the hologram that is the universe. But, as I said, and you have trouble understanding, there's no way to know that heaven is real even if you did go there. Just because something seems real doesn't mean it is. We think the earth is real and it's not.

Excuse me, but heaven cannot be both real and unreal at the same time. You previously stated that 'the Kingdom of God is within', which is what Yeshua said. So you must have been there else you would not confirm its location. That heaven is real is not a matter of belief, but one of an inner experience by which you know that there is no doubt as to its authenticity.

So if something actually WERE real, what would that be like?

To be capable of making a statement such as 'the earth is not real' means you know the difference between reality and illusion. I am simply asking you, once again, to tell me what the state of your mind is in when you say that? Or do you even know?

The state of my consciousness is just fine, how about yours?

If it is 'just fine', as you claim, then you will have no trouble in understanding the difference between reality and illusion. It will also mean, as you confirmed earlier that the Kingdom of God is within, that you are in touch with the Kingdom, which allows you to make the distinction.

If you meditate and remove self the consciousness realizes the difference between illusion and reality? The thing you are calling consciousness is self. You think that because you've trained your mind to not crowd you with constant thoughts that what is left is pure consciousness with no self. It's still self. It's just self that can meditate.

No. You are incorrect here. There is no such 'self'; there is only consciousness itself, which has formed an illusory self which only thinks itself to be real. What most people call 'self' is simply an accumulation of imagery, events, labels, emotions, etc. over a lifetime all interconnected into a single idea of 'self'.

The self doesn't create a concept of illusion. Only God can create. No other being, not even angels, not even Jesus can create. When new ideas are given to humanity it comes from God and we distribute them and humans recycle them over and over and over. Almost all of the ideas you've ever had have come from someone else.

Exactly, and it is those ideas which have been accumulated to form the idea of a 'self' which thinks itself to be real. It isn't. It's just a fantasy, a fictional character acting out a drama in a script written by others.

Jesus did not say that The Kingdom of God is going to be within you? He didn't.

You said:

"Am I dwelling in an illusion? We all are and when we die we will awaken on another level of the illusion where we will be taught true God Theory. We ascend through the levels and eventually make it to heaven. Heaven is non-illusion. It is not space/time. Heaven is the only real thing."

So if The Kingdom of God is not somewhere beyond ourselves in some future time and place, then it is not possible for you to 'make it to heaven', since heaven is already within you. Right? IOW, it is not in some future time and space, since, as you said, it is not space/time. Therefore, it is not a time or place that you can visit. By saying it is within, Yeshua meant it is a state of Being, not a time or place, since the spiritual life is beyond time and space, and the spiritual life is none other than consciousness.

Consciousness without self? Doesn't exist. You have very strange goals. You don't want to dream or imagine, that's fine, waste all day sitting around and struggling to quiet your mind. Nothing will get fixed. Nothing will get improved. No child will be taught. No crops will be harvested. Nothing new explored. I don't want your illusion.

A whirlpool is nothing more than whirling water, without a 'whirler' of the whirling water, and yet, what is called a 'whirlpool' is full of activity, but there is no agent of activity. In the same manner, consciousness is what the world is, but it is not dead. It is, as the Buddha said, 'effervescent' with activity. If I spend all my time dreaming and imagining, I will always be living in illusion. Reality is already complete, so all one need do is be at peace with it as it exists. You seem to want to bulldoze things around with your 'self', but if you look at the sorry state of the world, you will find that is exactly what humans have been doing for thousands of years, only to end up in the fix we now find ourselves in. This is the dilemma of the self. As Yeshua said: "There is a way that seems right to man that ends in death", and for those whose eyes have been opened, it is clear to them that we are now on that very path.

If heaven is just another illusion, how can it be heaven? You're trying to force your ideals on the universe. The universe does not have to exist the way you think it should.

No, that's not what I am saying at all. You keep contradicting yourself but don't seem to be aware of it. First you say heaven is real, then you say it is an illusion, and seriously, I really think you don't know what you are talking about. Most would agree that heaven is a state of being in which one is in his right mind; in which one clearly sees, without a doubt, that he is living in the true state of Reality. I further think you have not yet entered into the Kingdom within. Otherwise you would have no trouble distinguishing between illusion and reality, a distinction you don't seem to be able to make.

I have been talking about consciousness, without a self. Therefore, there is no self which forms concepts or ideals about the universe. This consciousness simply sees things as they are, without forming ideas or notions about the way things are.

You are not the experiencer of the experience; you are simply the experience itself. That experience os one of being here, now, in the Kingdom of Heaven. Personally, I do not call it that, because that implies a hierarchy, which I do not see as existing. What you call 'Kingdom of Heaven' I call 'Pure Awakened Consciousness' dwelling in Absolute Joy. You don't seem to like the idea of man having a divine nature, but that is exactly the case. We all have that, or rather, dwell within that divine nature. But you have to awaken first from the illusion that this material world and your 'self' that acts upon it is real. It isn't. Only your awakening will show you the real 'you', just as awakening from a dream shows you clearly the illusory nature of the dream when entering the awakened state.

 

[godnotgod]

Am I dwelling in an illusion? We all are and when we die we will awaken on another level of the illusion where we will be taught true God Theory.

What on earth are you talking about? Who is it that is teaching this 'True God Theory', and why only a 'theory', and not 'True God Reality'? Are these angel scientists teaching the course?

So, according to you, even 'God' who is real, is just another illusion, and so perhaps EVERYTHING is illusory and there is no such thing as 'reality'. But if you are any kind of thinker, you will realize the problem with this, and that is that for an illusion to exist, something real has to be behind it, because an illusion is just a false image of the real. Without the real as background or source, there cannot be an illusion, but I am not so certain you understand this.

“We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.”

Kalu Rinpoche

 

[Super Universe]

Excuse me, but heaven cannot be both real and unreal at the same time. You previously stated that 'the Kingdom of God is within', which is what Yeshua said. So you must have been there else you would not confirm its location. That heaven is real is not a matter of belief, but one of an inner experience by which you know that there is no doubt as to its authenticity.

So if something actually WERE real, what would that be like?

To be capable of making a statement such as 'the earth is not real' means you know the difference between reality and illusion. I am simply asking you, once again, to tell me what the state of your mind is in when you say that? Or do you even know?



If it is 'just fine', as you claim, then you will have no trouble in understanding the difference between reality and illusion. It will also mean, as you confirmed earlier that the Kingdom of God is within, that you are in touch with the Kingdom, which allows you to make the distinction.



No. You are incorrect here. There is no such 'self'; there is only consciousness itself, which has formed an illusory self which only thinks itself to be real. What most people call 'self' is simply an accumulation of imagery, events, labels, emotions, etc. over a lifetime all interconnected into a single idea of 'self'.



Exactly, and it is those ideas which have been accumulated to form the idea of a 'self' which thinks itself to be real. It isn't. It's just a fantasy, a fictional character acting out a drama in a script written by others.



You said:

"Am I dwelling in an illusion? We all are and when we die we will awaken on another level of the illusion where we will be taught true God Theory. We ascend through the levels and eventually make it to heaven. Heaven is non-illusion. It is not space/time. Heaven is the only real thing."

So if The Kingdom of God is not somewhere beyond ourselves in some future time and place, then it is not possible for you to 'make it to heaven', since heaven is already within you. Right? IOW, it is not in some future time and space, since, as you said, it is not space/time. Therefore, it is not a time or place that you can visit. By saying it is within, Yeshua meant it is a state of Being, not a time or place, since the spiritual life is beyond time and space, and the spiritual life is none other than consciousness.



A whirlpool is nothing more than whirling water, without a 'whirler' of the whirling water, and yet, what is called a 'whirlpool' is full of activity, but there is no agent of activity. In the same manner, consciousness is what the world is, but it is not dead. It is, as the Buddha said, 'effervescent' with activity. If I spend all my time dreaming and imagining, I will always be living in illusion. Reality is already complete, so all one need do is be at peace with it as it exists. You seem to want to bulldoze things around with your 'self', but if you look at the sorry state of the world, you will find that is exactly what humans have been doing for thousands of years, only to end up in the fix we now find ourselves in. This is the dilemma of the self. As Yeshua said: "There is a way that seems right to man that ends in death", and for those whose eyes have been opened, it is clear to them that we are now on that very path.



No, that's not what I am saying at all. You keep contradicting yourself but don't seem to be aware of it. First you say heaven is real, then you say it is an illusion, and seriously, I really think you don't know what you are talking about. Most would agree that heaven is a state of being in which one is in his right mind; in which one clearly sees, without a doubt, that he is living in the true state of Reality. I further think you have not yet entered into the Kingdom within. Otherwise you would have no trouble distinguishing between illusion and reality, a distinction you don't seem to be able to make.

I have been talking about consciousness, without a self. Therefore, there is no self which forms concepts or ideals about the universe. This consciousness simply sees things as they are, without forming ideas or notions about the way things are.

You are not the experiencer of the experience; you are simply the experience itself. That experience os one of being here, now, in the Kingdom of Heaven. Personally, I do not call it that, because that implies a hierarchy, which I do not see as existing. What you call 'Kingdom of Heaven' I call 'Pure Awakened Consciousness' dwelling in Absolute Joy. You don't seem to like the idea of man having a divine nature, but that is exactly the case. We all have that, or rather, dwell within that divine nature. But you have to awaken first from the illusion that this material world and your 'self' that acts upon it is real. It isn't. Only your awakening will show you the real 'you', just as awakening from a dream shows you clearly the illusory nature of the dream when entering the awakened state.

Heaven cannot be both real and unreal at the same time? No, I suppose it can't. It's either one or the other. Whether you will know the absolute truth is something that may never be known to you. There are things about God that even the angels do not know. Just because someone "thinks" heaven is real, doesn't mean it really is.

I must have been to heaven because I said that heaven is within you so I must have confirmed it's location? You like to argue just to argue. Think of all the places you've heard of but never been there, now apply that to the idea of heaven I presented.

I have no doubt that heaven exists. To me, it doesn't really matter if it's "real" or just another illusion.

If something were actually real, what would that be like? As far as I know the answer to that hasn't been unrevealed yet.

What is the state of my mind when I say that the earth is not real? The human "state".

I'm not in touch with the kingdom of God. It's in touch with me. It doesn't provide me with all the anwers I want.

That illusory idea of self you have, that makes you unique. It's who you are. I know you want to cease being you but I don't. I need to remember what I've been through so I can be a mature universal being.

Self thinks it's real because it's supposed to think it's real. I agree that humans are characters in a movie played in the material universe but we never cease being those characters. And the script is not written by others, you're responsible for your actions.

Heaven is not in the future, it's in non-space/time, but, in order to get there you have to ascend through the levels. As you ascend you are going back in time. When you finally make it to heaven you have left the hologram, you have left space/time, you have left the material universe.

Jesus meant that it is a state of being? He did. That doesn't mean that there is not a place called heaven where you achieve that perfected state. Jesus was also trying to tell people that they don't have to follow any religion or ritual to get into heaven.

The agent of activity in a whirlpool is gravity.

If life and the earth is an illusion then what are dreams? More illusion. You think there is either illusion or non-illusion. It can all be illusion forever and ever but don't see that as a bad thing. If heaven is an illusion then that illusion is provided by God for you.

The sorry state of the world? I can share ideas instantly with people on the other side of the planet. Our medicine is better than ever. I can see pictures of Mars and of galaxies billions of miles away. I can read endless amounts of literature. We're working hard to become more environmentally conscious. I have enormous amounts of entertainment available. I have many food choices, there is more than I could ever eat. There is so much art I could never see all of it. You see what you want to see.

I did not say that heaven is real and an illusion. I said it "could" be another illusion. The angels don't know everything and there are things they are not supposed to reveal. So, you'll have to decide for yourself when you get there but all of God's ways and means are not going to be revealed to you. There will still be some mysteries.

You have been talking about consciousness without self? You have. That's called an animal. So you want to be an animal?

You don't like the idea of the heirarchy of ascendance and angels? You don't have to.

I don't like the idea of man having a divine nature? We have a divine soul but the soul is not making our decisions or telling me what to do, my imperfect mind is doing that based on years of experience. That's why the experience is so important.

Only my awakening will show me the real me? True, but the real me is still "me".

 

[Super Universe]

What on earth are you talking about? Who is it that is teaching this 'True God Theory', and why only a 'theory', and not 'True God Reality'? Are these angel scientists teaching the course?

So, according to you, even 'God' who is real, is just another illusion, and so perhaps EVERYTHING is illusory and there is no such thing as 'reality'. But if you are any kind of thinker, you will realize the problem with this, and that is that for an illusion to exist, something real has to be behind it, because an illusion is just a false image of the real. Without the real as background or source, there cannot be an illusion, but I am not so certain you understand this.

“We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.”

Kalu Rinpoche

Who is teaching this true God Theory? The angels are.

Why do I call it a "theory"? Because each individual determines whether they want to believe in something or not. You could have all the evidence in the universe about something like aliens but I guarantee that there are people who will not listen to it. They will run. There are Jews who will never accept Jesus. There are satanists who will never accept that God is good and Lucifer is the bad rebel angel. It's all theory to a being until it's accepted.

I did not say that God is just another illusion. What I said was there is no way for you to know for sure that heaven isn't just another illusion. The universe will be explained to you by angels. God will be explained to you by the angels but the angels don't know everything about God. They still don't even know his name.

For an illusion to exist something real has to be behind it? Maybe the only real thing in existence is a God conciousness that is imagining everything, the universe, the many ascending levels, and heaven.

 

[Fool]

Someone at RF reminded me recently that the Kingdom of Heaven is within

Luke 17:21
King James Bible
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

That is a beautiful reality to meditate on, but what does it mean? When I think of a Kingdom I think of a civilization. Surely it doesn't mean we have a bunch of Angels, structures, and departed souls living within us does it?

Each of us is a corpuscle in the body of the Absolute and so all of our members within us are systems of some order to the body.

if God is Love, then the Kingdom of Love is within our ability to manifest.


He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

 

[Auggxv]

Someone at RF reminded me recently that the Kingdom of Heaven is within

Luke 17:21
King James Bible
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

That is a beautiful reality to meditate on, but what does it mean? When I think of a Kingdom I think of a civilization. Surely it doesn't mean we have a bunch of Angels, structures, and departed souls living within us does it?

You are a spirit entrapped within a body confined to this world. The Kingdom of Heaven is the Spirit realm.

 

[Windwalker]

You are a spirit entrapped within a body confined to this world. The Kingdom of Heaven is the Spirit realm.

This reminds of something I heard once I liked. We think of ourselves as humans on a spiritual journey, but in reality we are Spirit on a human journey.

 

[godnotgod]

You are a spirit entrapped within a body confined to this world. The Kingdom of Heaven is the Spirit realm.

As long as you continue to think that way, you will never be free. You are creating a duality that does not actually exist, a duality which is at war with itself. St. Paul had a devil of a time with this. There is no separate 'spiritual realm' and 'human realm'; there is only one world, and this is it.

You yourself are that which is the Spirit, playing itself as human, while pretending not to be the Spirit, in the cosmic game of Hide and Seek.