The Koran calls it Israel, and says G-d gave it to the Jewish people

[ppɐʇɹnɯ]

Why are the Arabs defying "Allah"?

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Why are you being an obvious troll?

 

[ppɐʇɹnɯ]

Why can't you answer a simple question?

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Ok.

We are not defying Allah.

 

[beenie]

nom nom nom
the troll is being fed

 

[Eliot Wild]

Well, I don't know anything about "trolls", but it seems to me this is a fairly relevant topic of debate and discussion for a religious forum.

Right now the country where I live is spending enormous amounts of tax dollars fighting a war against terrorism which is targetted mainly at Islamic religious terrorists. Islamic terrorists have in turn targeted the United States government and innocent citizens for attacks because of, among other reasons, my government's support of Israel.

So, I am curious: Does the Koran recognize a legitimate Jewish state, a.k.a. Israel? If so, why do many Muslims oppose or refuse to recognize the Jewish state of Israel? And why do some muslims oppose such a state so forcefully that they are willing to murder innocent civilians of a totally different country in retaliation of their government's support of Israel?

And believe me, I ain't no freakin' troll. I'm just a curious member who'd appreciate a response containing more thought and substance than name-calling.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Not being a troll here- doesn't the Quran say in surah Banai Israel that in the last days Allah will gather the Jews back into the land of Israel?

 

[beenie]

but does Allah specify where Israel is? i'm honestly not sure, not trying to be snarky.

and my reply to murtadd is based not only on this thread. sorry, won't happen again.

 

[beenie]

Well, I don't know anything about "trolls", but it seems to me this is a fairly relevant topic of debate and discussion for a religious forum.

Right now the country where I live is spending enormous amounts of tax dollars fighting a war against terrorism which is targetted mainly at Islamic religious terrorists. Islamic terrorists have in turn targeted the United States government and innocent citizens for attacks because of, among other reasons, my government's support of Israel.

So, I am curious: Does the Koran recognize a legitimate Jewish state, a.k.a. Israel? If so, why do many Muslims oppose or refuse to recognize the Jewish state of Israel? And why do some muslims oppose such a state so forcefully that they are willing to murder innocent civilians of a totally different country in retaliation of their government's support of Israel?

And believe me, I ain't no freakin' troll. I'm just a curious member who'd appreciate a response containing more thought and substance than name-calling.

i apologize; my comment was uncalled for and was not directed at you or the topic.

 

[Eliot Wild]

i apologize; my comment was uncalled for and was not directed at you or the topic.

Ahh, you're cool. I wasn't directing my comments at you anyway. And besides, I'm certainly not the Adjudicator of the Boards to say what is or isn't an appropriate reply. As far as I'm concerned, really, people can post whatever they want. It's just that some responses are better than others.

And really, I don't know. Maybe the OP was from a 'troll'. However, I honestly don't know. And I certainly don't know anything about Islam. That's one of the reasons I come here--to learn. It just seems to me my government is wasting money and demonizing good Muslims, maybe, in an attempt to justify it's "War on Terrorism".

I was just curious. Also, I will add, you deserve frubals just for making an apology. That is certainly rare around here. But in this case, it is not really needed.

 

[beenie]

thank you, and to be honest, i agree with you. even AS a muslim, i'm learning more and more about Islam and its people as well. we're all on a learning curve.

i do hope someone who knows will come and explain the mention of Israel and where it's location is as stated in the Qur'an. i'll see if i can find anything in the meantime.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I'll get the verses for you SShainu.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

"To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"
"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."
"We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."
[Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104]
​

 

[MathewJames]

When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."

​

​

above verse also reads:

"But when the latter promise came, We brought you rolled up.'

The rolling up of the Isrealites is meant that they would make way for another people.

 

[beenie]

Thank you Proud2BeGay.
My question was does the Qur'an specify where the land of Israel will be at the time the Qur'an is referring to, as in where geographically. Then reason I ask is because even some orthodox Jewish don't believe in the current state of Israel. Maybe it's in a different location?

 

[Caladan]

T. Then reason I ask is because even some orthodox Jewish don't believe in the current state of Israel. Maybe it's in a different location?

Really? how many are 'some'? I've seen Muslims use these ultra orthodox groups, which are very small and distinct groups over and over again, as if it is a beacon of triumph that Jews support them. while in reality these are by far the MOST alienated members of the Jewish society, so fringe and small, they seem like complete aliens to modern Jews and Israelis. they hold some of the most antagonistic religious beliefs, and are literally living in ghettos in Israel.
All Jews and Israelis know where Israel is. modern Israel is filled with Jewish archaeology, from the ancient synagogues of the Golan Heights and Galilee, to Jerusalem which has remnants of the Temple, to Massada- the legendary final stand off of Jewish rebels and Roman legionnaires.
if you want to claim that Israel is maybe located on Mars, Antarctica, Poland, or Alaska. I'd love to see the archaeological record you can supply.

 

[SLAMH]

First, I think people here are missing the time-line.

Second, does this give the right for Jewish to come and kick the inhabitants out of their land ?

Third, if it is like this, I think then the white and black in America has no right to be there, the white in Africa, the Indians and Arabs in Tanzania, some of the Africans in Arabian Peninsula, All of those should be kicked out.

You just can't come after Hundreds of years to evacuate people by force out of their lands.

 

[Rakhel]

That group of "Orthodox" Jews is a very small group, that only an even smaller group listen to, anyways.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Thank you Proud2BeGay.
My question was does the Qur'an specify where the land of Israel will be at the time the Qur'an is referring to, as in where geographically. Then reason I ask is because even some orthodox Jewish don't believe in the current state of Israel. Maybe it's in a different location?

Those "some orthodox" can be confined within the ranks of the Satmar Chassidim. Nothing stated by the Satmar rebbe or any rabbis within the Satmar world have any bearing on Chassidim at large, and much less than no bearing on the larger Jewish people. I could counter-argue that some orthodox rabbis declare it one's religious duty as a Jew to settle all of Eretz Yisrael(both sides of the Jordan River, y'all). Those are the Belz Chassidim.

EDIT:
Who to listen to? Who...to...listen...to...?
It is my guess that one will listen to the ones who agree with their preconceived notions and cater to their personal prejudices.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

First, I think people here are missing the time-line.

Second, does this give the right for Jewish to come and kick the inhabitants out of their land ?

Third, if it is like this, I think then the white and black in America has no right to be there, the white in Africa, the Indians and Arabs in Tanzania, some of the Africans in Arabian Peninsula, All of those should be kicked out.

You just can't come after Hundreds of years to evacuate people by force out of their lands.

[/indent]above verse also reads:

"But when the latter promise came, We brought you rolled up.'

The rolling up of the Isrealites is meant that they would make way for another people.

You know, timelines are irrelevant when it comes to prophecy. Ask anyone who believes a prophecy will come true. Further, when we were given the land initially, it was occupied by another people. What do you think Am Yisrael did to them then? I can assure you, we didn't hand out kittens.