The last post is the WINNER!

[Revoltingest]

High taxes are neither bad nor good. They're bad when the money is wasted. They're good when used for positive goals. Too often here they're used to give goodies to business and thus wasted.

Amending my post: I'm in favor of getting rid of every single deduction but one that eliminates taxes for those below the poverty line. Businesses would pay a gross receipts tax at a much lower rate and that's it. Individuals would pay based on money received with no gimmicks such as capital gains having a lower rate again at a lower rate.

If something should be supported, then the government should use other means to do so rather than gimmicking the tax code.

High taxes are always bad.....to those of us who have to pay them.
The more government has, the more they waste.
(They never gives "goodies" to any of my businesses.)

Capital gains tax is simply not understood by 99.98% of people.
What you call a "gimmick" is really a poor compromise to address the following....
- A high rate means assets have a high transfer cost, so they often become stagnant, ie, an owner is discouraged from selling to a buyer who could put it to better use.
- Rates aren't indexed for inflation, so generally much of the taxable gain is on phantom income, ie, the increase in devalued dollars (due to inflation) for a given economic value.
Example: You buy a building for $1M. Suppose inflation is 7%. You sell 10 years later for $2M. Adjusted for inflation, you made no profit, but you pay tax on $1M.
In general, most appreciation of real estate is simply due to loss of value of the dollar.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Now that we've expressed our feelings, we can tie this up. Its gone on for too long. Game over.

 

[Revoltingest]

Game restarted.

 

[sun rise]

High taxes are always bad.....to those of us who have to pay them.
The more government has, the more they waste.
(They never gives "goodies" to any of my businesses.)

Capital gains tax is simply not understood by 99.98% of people.
What you call a "gimmick" is really a poor compromise to address the following....
- A high rate means assets have a high transfer cost, so they often become stagnant, ie, an owner is discouraged from selling to a buyer who could put it to better use.
- Rates aren't indexed for inflation, so generally much of the taxable gain is on phantom income, ie, the increase in devalued dollars (due to inflation) for a given economic value.
Example: You buy a building for $1M. Suppose inflation is 7%. You sell 10 years later for $2M. Adjusted for inflation, you made no profit, but you pay tax on $1M.
In general, most appreciation of real estate is simply due to loss of value of the dollar.

For many capital gains is a way for wealthy people to sit on their butts doing nothing productive and having their income taxed at a much lower rate than the poor slob who works hard for low wages. It's ultimately fundamentally unfair and devalues hard work.

If you eliminate capital gains you put a bomb in the inflationary society because people will insist that the value of money is not gimmicked.

 

[Revoltingest]

For many capital gains is a way for wealthy people to sit on their butts doing nothing productive and having their income taxed at a much lower rate than the poor slob who works hard for low wages. It's ultimately fundamentally unfair and devalues hard work.
If you eliminate capital gains you put a bomb in the inflationary society because people will insist that the value of money is not gimmicked.

So it's really about class envy, eh?
Those who don't got just want to take from those that do.
Gov already taxes income generated by investments.
Capital gains is mostly a tax upon wealth.
How?
By government's devaluing currency each year, selling an investment results in more dollars needed to represent the same economic value.
Because there's no indexing for inflation, & most of the gain is phantom, it taxes equity rather than economic gain..
But if punishing investors is your real goal, then it doesn't do all that you want.
You only get the ones who sell their assets, & thereby realize their gain.
The ones who don't sell escape the capital gains tax entirely.
As for your "slob", he pays income tax in the same year the money is earned, so almost none of it is on inflated amounts.

 

[atanu]

Ignorant economist

 

[Revoltingest]

Ignorant economist

Well, you shouldn't be so rough on him.
Few people outside of investors who understand the theory behind the time value of money understand how it all works.
So it's up to us to explain with civility & friendly condescension.

 

[atanu]

My goal is to be rough on every one, most on the capitalists.

 

[Revoltingest]

My goal is to be rough on every one, most on the capitalists.

We have broad shoulders, & we're used to it.
And I live to entertain.

Now don't take this to harshly......you're not that rough.
You're just too friendly.

 

[atanu]

We have broad shoulders, & we're used to it.
And I live to entertain.

Now don't take this to harshly......you're not that rough.
You're just too friendly.

I am just more slithery and more supple.

 

[atanu]

Now don't take this to harshly......you're not that rough.
You're just too friendly.

Now now. Should that not be "too harshly"?

 

[Revoltingest]

Now now. Should that not be "too harshly"?

Yipes!
I hate it when misspellification happens!

 

[atanu]

You are a perfectionist. And perfectionists cannot win. You know that. Don't you?

 

[Revoltingest]

You are a perfectionist. And perfectionists cannot win. You know that. Don't you?

If I admitted that I couldn't win, then that very act would cause me to win.
Hey, I just won!

 

[sun rise]

So it's really about class envy, eh?
Those who don't got just want to take from those that do.
Gov already taxes income generated by investments.
Capital gains is mostly a tax upon wealth.
How?
By government's devaluing currency each year, selling an investment results in more dollars needed to represent the same economic value.
Because there's no indexing for inflation, & most of the gain is phantom, it taxes equity rather than economic gain..
But if punishing investors is your real goal, then it doesn't do all that you want.
You only get the ones who sell their assets, & thereby realize their gain.
The ones who don't sell escape the capital gains tax entirely.
As for your "slob", he pays income tax in the same year the money is earned, so almost none of it is on inflated amounts.

No, it's about the Declaration of Independence which said that EVERYONE is created equal and is entitled to pursue happiness and what needs to happen when government gets in the way. When the tax code screws those on the bottom and gives breaks to those on the top, then the fundamental right to equal treatment is violated and things need to change. It's about removing unjust and unequal treatment from the tax code so that everyone is equally able to do the best they can and get rewarded for it.

 

[atanu]

If I admitted that I couldn't win, then that very act would cause me to win.
Hey, I just won!

But you did not admit. How could you win? Then we are going to impose a 'Capitalist tax' on you. That will be double blow.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, it's about the Declaration of Independence which said that EVERYONE is created equal and is entitled to pursue happiness and what needs to happen when government gets in the way. When the tax code screws those on the bottom and gives breaks to those on the top, then the fundamental right to equal treatment is violated and things need to change. It's about removing unjust and unequal treatment from the tax code so that everyone is equally able to do the best they can and get rewarded for it.

The framers & I have a different definition of equality, ie, it's not about equality of results.
The tax code screws people at both the bottom & upper levels.
It won't be fixed by instituting punitive measures against successful folk.
The law of unintended consequences will rear its ugly head.

 

[Revoltingest]

But you did not admit. How could you win? Then we are going to impose a 'Capitalist tax' on you. That will be double blow.

Oooooo....another post to quote...for a double win!
I'm a "capitalist tax" resister.

 

[atanu]

There is no tax for winning.

 

[Brickjectivity]

We're going to need another genius be born and get interested in Economics. We've had a few already, and they have helped. The game keeps changing though. Its always changing. So far there's always somebody who has near zero chance to thrive, so we haven't really arrived at our goal of everyone having a chance. Its a tough problem to crack.