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The Left And Obama Is/Was Always About Giving Jobs To Foreigners And Illegals And Not US Citizens

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
It started with Obama and the MSM. I've never seen America this split (short of the Civil War). I don't think the chasm will be brought together anytime soon unless a common enemy attacks us.
It did not start 8 years ago.
I am old enough to remember better. It has been growing for most of my adult life, about 40 years. But it really seemed to take off in the late 90's. That's when Gingrich and the Contract with America and all that made partisan politics more important than the good of the country. It isn't that Democrats have never done that, of course they have. But the GOP was always out in front of that race.

To get back to your OP. There was already a steady stream of undocumented workers and factories going overseas in 2000. But they became a flood during the Bush administration. Illegal immigrants fell under Obama. Not because he was any magician, but the Republican Recession of 2007/8 caused a drop in employment and the illegal workers lost a lot of jobs and left. So your premise in the OP is demonstrably wrong.
It isn't Obama or leftists who want to give jobs to nonUSA citizens. It's capitalists. They don't want to pay an American $20/hr when somebody else will do it cheaper. And since American consumers will buy the cheapest option, even if it costs American jobs, producers will keep giving the jobs to foreign workers.

Trump is not going to change that. Quite the contrary, it would be very "bad for business" if he did. So I see less reason for Trump and the Republican dominated Capitol Hill to do it than for Obama to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (which he didn't do either) .
Tom
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Wow, 3 Breitbart links, a Fox link and a Dallas morning link. What do normal news outlets say about this?

Usually if journalistic outlets aren't covering a story, something is up. Sounds to me like GOP media is playing the race card as usual.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
It started with Obama and the MSM. I've never seen America this split (short of the Civil War). I don't think the chasm will be brought together anytime soon unless a common enemy attacks us.
There's nothing wrong with normal news outlets. Just because GOP media tells you that you should never listen to anyone but them, doesn't mean they're being honest.

They gotcha. The only reason Fox, Rush and the rest of GOP media even talk about the 'MSM" is to control the message. They don't want you exposed to additional information that could interfere with their agenda.

Do you know what propaganda is? The GOP is targeting vulnerable Americans on purpose. Don't you care?

Do you understand what propaganda is? To avoid being manipulated by propaganda, you must first learn to recognize it.

Savvy propagandists, Miller and his colleagues realized, draw their power in large part from the fact that their targets are not aware that propaganda is being used on them. In this way, propaganda is not a magic show but a con. A mind that is not trained to detect and neutralize propaganda is a gullible mind, ripe for the swindle.
The Con of Propaganda
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Wow, 3 Breitbart links, a Fox link and a Dallas morning link. What do normal news outlets say about this?

Usually if journalistic outlets aren't covering a story, something is up. Sounds to me like GOP media is playing the race card as usual.
What's a normal news outlet?
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Or bring back the business that had to go off shore because of restrictive taxation and unnecessary regulations. We are already seeing this happening, thank you very much.

To "bring back" those companies would require doing away with "unnecessary regulations" like the minimum wage, insurance regulations and workers compensation among other things. We would have to see wages fall to $4 an hour.

This notion that the reason companies are moving manufacturing to China or Cambodia is taxation is laughable.

Now taxation might make company headquarters move offshore. But even that is exaggerated. Yes, our corporate rate (35%) is high, but our effective rate (27.1%) is essentially average among advanced nations. I think it would be more effective to simplify it and set the rate at 27%. It would reduce the cost of business while keeping revenue at roughly the same level.

But the reality is that some companies will always go where they can for the lowest rate. We cannot set our rate based upon the lowest rate in the world or we would be bankrupt.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Or bring back the business that had to go off shore because of restrictive taxation and unnecessary regulations. We are already seeing this happening, thank you very much.
You do realize that immigration and work permit regulations are regulations, don't you?

"We need to make it easier for American companies to do business... but we need to take away their ability to hire for jobs they have difficulty filling, and we need to undermine the treaties that make it easier and cheaper for them to import their raw materials and export their goods to foreign markets!"
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Businesses want cheap labor. Both Democrats and Republicans are beholden to big business. If you want jobs to go to Americans, then you're gonna need to hold big business's feet to the fire. They are gonna have to be willing to pay their workforce more.

That's why we have to have Republicans and independents who will do this. Obama sold this country out in order to pave the way for globalization. As an example, we have a huge lithium-ion battery production plant for Elon Musk's Tesla motors in Nevada. While it provides a lot of jobs, it may become the most dangerous production plant on the planet. Other evil people to watch out for are George Soros, Peter Lewis, Mark Zuckerberg, Richard Branson, Reed Hastings, Bill Gates, even Michael Moore, i.e. the liberal rich. Money is still money, but where it goes is different today.
 

McBell

Unbound
These kind of stories have become the norm. The rich leftists, keep hiring foreigners and illegals because they work for far cheaper than US workers. These workers take money from here and go back to their own countries. It's no wonder the US isn't #1 anymore. We can never elect a Democrat to office again.

Federal 'OPT' Program Rewards Companies Which Hired 400,000 Foreign College Grads in 2016

Foreign Work Visas are Cheap Labor. So What's New?

White ex-employee at Infosys in Plano files suit, claims company favored workers from India | Technology | Dallas News

NY Times Praises Ohio Farmers Using Illegal Immigrant Workforce

New York Mayor Hides 500,000 Illegals, Vows to Ignore Immigration Laws - Breitbart
I find it rather interesting that well over 90% of what you post, the exact opposite is true.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
These kind of stories have become the norm. The rich leftists, keep hiring foreigners and illegals because they work for far cheaper than US workers. These workers take money from here and go back to their own countries. It's no wonder the US isn't #1 anymore. We can never elect a Democrat to office again.

Federal 'OPT' Program Rewards Companies Which Hired 400,000 Foreign College Grads in 2016

Foreign Work Visas are Cheap Labor. So What's New?

White ex-employee at Infosys in Plano files suit, claims company favored workers from India | Technology | Dallas News

NY Times Praises Ohio Farmers Using Illegal Immigrant Workforce

New York Mayor Hides 500,000 Illegals, Vows to Ignore Immigration Laws - Breitbart

Do you believe U.S. citizens should be prohibited from working anywhere except the U.S.?
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
GOP just making up stories now since they don't have anything substantial to complain about?

My thinking is the more the liberals complain, the better the US economy and life in the US is. It would be great if some of populations from California and its politicians move north to Canada or even Mexico. If the extra height solar wall works, then Canada may implement.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Do you believe U.S. citizens should be prohibited from working anywhere except the U.S.?

Do you? I don't believe in giving rewards for hiring foreign graduates. There are too many loopholes to this process. This is different than in the past when immigrants moved to this country and made it their home. Today's immigrants take unfair advantage and send their money home. Thus, it's the ugly illegal immigrants.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Do you? I don't believe in giving rewards for hiring foreign graduates. There are too many loopholes to this process. This is different than in the past when immigrants moved to this country and made it their home. Today's immigrants take unfair advantage and send their money home. Thus, it's the ugly illegal immigrants.
Immigrants have always sent money home.

And historically, a significant proportion of the immigrants who came to North America did so with the plan of working for a while to make their fortune and then move back home. Many did just that.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Do you? I don't believe in giving rewards for hiring foreign graduates. There are too many loopholes to this process. This is different than in the past when immigrants moved to this country and made it their home. Today's immigrants take unfair advantage and send their money home. Thus, it's the ugly illegal immigrants.

Not all immigrants are illegal. I thought you were addressing all immigration.

What I wanted to know was:
If you think people from other countries should not be allowed to work in the U.S., should that be reciprocal and all other countries prevent citizens of the U.S. from working in those counties? The door swings both ways. As to your comment about immigrants sending money home, do you feel U.S. citizens now working abroad should be prohibited from sending their money back to the U.S.?
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Not all immigrants are illegal. I thought you were addressing all immigration.

What I wanted to know was:
If you think people from other countries should not be allowed to work in the U.S., should that be reciprocal and all other countries prevent citizens of the U.S. from working in those counties? The door swings both ways. As to your comment about immigrants sending money home, do you feel U.S. citizens now working abroad should be prohibited from sending their money back to the U.S.?

No, I'm just referring to illegal immigrants. We want to control the flow. Not just let anyone in in order to win elections.

Maybe DJT can convince people of the benefits of having a solar wall.

the-panels-on-the-proposed-wall-would-be-offset-to-avoid-casting-shadows-as-solar-panels-are-usually-installed-on-roofs-not-walls-the-panels-on-the-roof-would-move-to-track-the-sun.jpg


I don't think a solar panel wall is feasible as it takes a lot of maintenance to keep it operable. The panels are expensive, get dirty and need to be replaced. There is new technology of solar tiles with lower cost. If any new techonology can overcome the dirt and lasts for some time, then it may be feasible.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
No, I'm just referring to illegal immigrants. We want to control the flow. Not just let anyone in in order to win elections.

Maybe DJT can convince people of the benefits of having a solar wall.

the-panels-on-the-proposed-wall-would-be-offset-to-avoid-casting-shadows-as-solar-panels-are-usually-installed-on-roofs-not-walls-the-panels-on-the-roof-would-move-to-track-the-sun.jpg


I don't think a solar panel wall is feasible as it takes a lot of maintenance to keep it operable. The panels are expensive, get dirty and need to be replaced. There is new technology of solar tiles with lower cost. If any new techonology can overcome the dirt and lasts for some time, then it may be feasible.

Well, I have been at odds with you on a number of subjects, but I generally agree with you on immigration. I discount the remark about winning elections, but that is a separate discussion.

In short, I am totally for immigration, but I am for control of that immigration. I think a wall is ineffective and costly, but I have no ready answers, either.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Well, I have been at odds with you on a number of subjects, but I generally agree with you on immigration. I discount the remark about winning elections, but that is a separate discussion.

In short, I am totally for immigration, but I am for control of that immigration. I think a wall is ineffective and costly, but I have no ready answers, either.

That's because there is not one.

There are problems that cannot be solved only minimized. And these types of problems suffer from the rule of diminishing returns. We already spend a fortune on border security. Our borders are more secure than ever (we spend more, have more tech on the border, and have vastly more agents working the border). So at this point there is no answer that solves the problem. We need to be asking a different question. The question is how much money is worthwhile to spend on the border.

If money is no object, as I've stated before, we should just invade Mexico. It would take us 20 minutes, and we could decimate the cartels all in one swoop. And if those Canadians start looking at us funny...
 
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