Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
He may not answer you. He posts rarely here. He prefers not to stir up discord I gather. What he said has started to stir up discord, and he may want to stop here.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The List Of Prophecies The Baháʼu'lláh Claimed To Have Fulfilled
- Thread starter Jimmy
- Start date
It is entirely fair for the OP to defend himself against the insinuation even if the individual in question wasn't certain that the insinuation he was making was true in my view.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The title of this thread is:
The List Of Prophecies The Baháʼu'lláh Claimed To Have Fulfilled
The only prophecies that Baha'u'llah claimed to have fulfilled are the prophecies for the return of Christ.All the others listed below are what Baha'is have claimed about Baha'u'llah.
Baha'is make lots of claims but I don't buy all of them.
Christianity - The return of Jesus Christ
Islam - The return of the Mahdi
Hinduism - The reincarnation of Krishna.
Buddhism - The coming of the fifth Buddha
Judaism - The most great law is come
Zoroastrianism - The coming of the world saver Saoshyant
None of this is relevant to the fact a person is entitled to defend themselves against insinuations made in my view, perhaps you meant to respond to the OP instead of me?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Sorry, I haven't been following that conversation.
Yes, I was responding to the OP.
Can you provide some source for this story?
Pete in Panama
Well-Known Member
Hello there, I'm glad you're seeing me now! My preference is to keep in touch w/ so many good people here that I know. The trick is to keep good feelings and not get sucked into bad feelings...
Pete in Panama
Well-Known Member
Ah, my bad! What I should have said for better clarity was "That's absolutely true, we're all on our own path. Of course you've been very polite and I've never felt that you've been unseemly, but for the sake of expanding on the things we agree on can we also say that a personal taste preference for antagonizing and inflicting harm on others is a bad thing?
What epistemology do you follow to decide that you buy and what you don’t?
ciao
- viole
Pete in Panama
Well-Known Member
Actually that seems like a fair question, iow "how do you decide which to buy and not buy" but that's only if we want to eschew obfuscation. My interest would be in looking at that list of claims and suggest that we don't have to fixate on what we don't like, but rather we can explore what we do like.
Only problem there is that some folks really prefer dwelling on what they don't like.
It may be of interest to know what Baha'u'llah and the central figures of the (Haifa based) Baha'i community have said about himself and his fore-runner the Bab (please note I consider all the following claims dubious);
Baha'u'llah said of himself, "This is the One Whom the heart of the world remembereth and is promised in the Books of God, the Mighty, the All-Wise' 1
Baha'u'llah has explicitly identified the Torah, Gospel, and Quran as Books of God according to my understanding as well as claiming to fulfill Zoraostrian prophecy, so lets take a look at what he has said about them.
Baha'u'llah has claimed form the Old Testament to be the "Lord of Hosts";
"Say: O concourse of the rulers and of the learned and the wise! The Promised Day is come and the Lord of Hosts hath appeared" 2
Since it is not disputed that Baha'u'llah claimed to be the return of Christ I'll not tire the reader further on this point.
Baha'u'llah claimed his fore-runner the Bab to be both the Mihdi (since this is not disputed I'll not tire the reader with quotes regarding this) and the return of John;
"O followers of the Son! We have once again sent John unto you, and He, verily, hath cried out in the wilderness of the Bayán: O peoples of the world! Cleanse your eyes!" 3
Baha'u'llah claimed to be the one who fulfillled the verse in the Quran;
'And in the mighty Qur’án: “What can such expect but that God should come down to them overshadowed with clouds?”' 4
Baha'u'llah claimed to be the Shah Bahram promised to the Zoroastrians;
'The fourth question: “Our Books have announced that Sháh Bahrám will come, invested with manifold signs, to guide the people aright….”
O friend! Whatsoever hath been announced in the Books hath been revealed and made clear.' 5
Then there is what Abdul Baha said;
"Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, Muḥammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh are one in spirit and reality." 6
And Shoghi Effendi put his word in;
"To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the “Everlasting Father,” the “Lord of Hosts” come down “with ten thousands of saints”; to Christendom Christ returned “in the glory of the Father,” to Shí’ah Islám the return of the Imám Ḥusayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the “Spirit of God” (Jesus Christ); to the Zoroastrians the promised Sháh-Bahrám; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha." 7
'He alone is meant by the prophecy attributed to Gautama Buddha Himself, that “a Buddha named Maitreye, the Buddha of universal fellowship” should, in the fullness of time, arise and reveal “His boundless glory.” To Him the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the “Most Great Spirit,” the “Tenth Avatar,” the “Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna.”' 8
1 Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 27-30
2 Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 238-240
3 Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 54-67
4 Bahá'í Reference Library - Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, Pages 101-120
5 Bahá'í Reference Library - The Tabernacle of Unity, Pages 57-65
6 Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Pages 197-203
7 Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103
8 Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103
Baha'u'llah said of himself, "This is the One Whom the heart of the world remembereth and is promised in the Books of God, the Mighty, the All-Wise' 1
Baha'u'llah has explicitly identified the Torah, Gospel, and Quran as Books of God according to my understanding as well as claiming to fulfill Zoraostrian prophecy, so lets take a look at what he has said about them.
Baha'u'llah has claimed form the Old Testament to be the "Lord of Hosts";
"Say: O concourse of the rulers and of the learned and the wise! The Promised Day is come and the Lord of Hosts hath appeared" 2
Since it is not disputed that Baha'u'llah claimed to be the return of Christ I'll not tire the reader further on this point.
Baha'u'llah claimed his fore-runner the Bab to be both the Mihdi (since this is not disputed I'll not tire the reader with quotes regarding this) and the return of John;
"O followers of the Son! We have once again sent John unto you, and He, verily, hath cried out in the wilderness of the Bayán: O peoples of the world! Cleanse your eyes!" 3
Baha'u'llah claimed to be the one who fulfillled the verse in the Quran;
'And in the mighty Qur’án: “What can such expect but that God should come down to them overshadowed with clouds?”' 4
Baha'u'llah claimed to be the Shah Bahram promised to the Zoroastrians;
'The fourth question: “Our Books have announced that Sháh Bahrám will come, invested with manifold signs, to guide the people aright….”
O friend! Whatsoever hath been announced in the Books hath been revealed and made clear.' 5
Then there is what Abdul Baha said;
"Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, Muḥammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh are one in spirit and reality." 6
And Shoghi Effendi put his word in;
"To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the “Everlasting Father,” the “Lord of Hosts” come down “with ten thousands of saints”; to Christendom Christ returned “in the glory of the Father,” to Shí’ah Islám the return of the Imám Ḥusayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the “Spirit of God” (Jesus Christ); to the Zoroastrians the promised Sháh-Bahrám; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha." 7
'He alone is meant by the prophecy attributed to Gautama Buddha Himself, that “a Buddha named Maitreye, the Buddha of universal fellowship” should, in the fullness of time, arise and reveal “His boundless glory.” To Him the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the “Most Great Spirit,” the “Tenth Avatar,” the “Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna.”' 8
1 Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 27-30
2 Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 238-240
3 Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 54-67
4 Bahá'í Reference Library - Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, Pages 101-120
5 Bahá'í Reference Library - The Tabernacle of Unity, Pages 57-65
6 Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Pages 197-203
7 Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103
8 Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
For Baha'is does it matter that the prophecies don't fit? No. They can easily make anything fit. Here's a Baha'i that says it is better that they don't fit, yet... the claim is that Baha'u'llah is the fulfillment of the prophecies about Kalki.
Given these limitations, which are rather profound, the claim that Baha’u’llah is the fulfillment of the Kalki prophecies must be qualified and nuanced. The fact that Baha’u’llah did not literally fulfill the Kalki prophecies is actually for the better—because it means no war, no bloodshed, the advent of new spiritual teachings and new social laws, best suited for this day and age.
So, can a "true" believer in the Baha'i Faith "discard" Kalki? No, unless they disregard what Shoghi Effendi said. But what a mess they created for themselves trying to show how their prophet fulfilled all the prophecies from all the religions about the coming of the "promised one."
I would personally offer that the only foolishness is from people that post such OP's to negate the Message of Baha'u'llah and its relevance to the age we live in.
The OP tries to draw a conclusion based on a very superficial look at a world embracing Message.
Regards Tony
I see the issue is the same literal interpretation of the prophecies. We see the same type of prophecies in all scriptures. Examples as slaying with the sword, this is not a literal sword. Coming and riding a white horse is a Biblical prophecy as well.
The overall narrative of conquering evil and replacing it with a New world is what all these prophecies are leading us to.
Kalki
There is no doubt Baha'u'llah fulfilled all that Shoghi Effendi recorded in "God Passes By", a wonderful testomony to the Bab, Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Sure. It is all fulfilled... just not literally. Which means anybody can make up any whacked out symbolic interpretation they want.
But... maybe I'm wrong... give me the Baha'i interpretation of the prophesies about Kalki. Let's see how Baha'is make them fit.