coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
Why ignore the highlighted words?
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
The "abomination" hadn't been fulfilled yet.
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The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
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Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
The "abomination" hadn't been fulfilled yet.
sooda
Veteran Member
Hannukah is a celebration of the rededication of the Temple after it was defiled by Antiochus IV.. They had destroyed all the oil except one vial and that one vial lasted 8 days. So while YOU don't recognize the Abomination of Desolation during the Maccabean Revolt, they do.
Are you going to dismiss their history because of some Scofield crap?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Weak. And you do recognize the Didache as an actual document. You inferred that it was "imaginary." And we don't need the Didache to celebrate the first day of the week as "the Lord's Day," although the passage in question is highly compelling.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I don't have to go by the Bible since it is better for me to go by Jesus. You are worshiping a dead book. I worship the living God.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I follow the requirement by worshiping on Sunday.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe legalists follow their own minds and will. It was legalists who crucified Jesus because they didn't see the Bible prophecies the way He did.
sooda
Veteran Member
Most Christians celebrate the Resurrection on Sunday, but I am not sure that its an important distinction.
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
The word of God is very much alive:
Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick (living, alive), and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
Again, it is non-sequitur (and straw man and red herring, to continue to bring it up) to speak about the "resurrection", or about "worship", as the topic is about "the Lord's day". Christians (and yea, all) are to worship JEHOVAH Elohiym, 24/7/365. That the resurrection of Jesus is upon the "first [day] of the week" is not the question of the OP, neither is it in question. That Jesus was resurrected on "the first [day] of the week" does not anywhere make that day "the Lord's day" in scripture. Luke's gospel, as well as the book of Acts, both written years after the ascension of Jesus Christ, relate that the "first [day] of the week" is simply a number, as it was from the beginning" in relation to the culmination of the 7 days of the week, being the 7th day, the sabbath of the LORD thy God in every single case.
What is the Lord's day? Let the Bible speak:
The "Lord's day" according to scripture, is the 7th day, the sabbath day of the Lord.
Genesis 2:1-3,4 - 'the seventh day', 'God', 'day', 'the LORD God' [… God [the LORD] … day …]
Exodus 16:23 - "the LORD", "to morrow [the seventh day] is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD' [... the LORD ... [day] ...]
Exodus 16:25 - 'to day [the seventh day]; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day' [... the LORD ... day]
Exodus 20:8-11 - 'the sabbath day', 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God', 'sabbath day' [... the LORD ... day ...]
Exodus 31:15 - 'the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD ... the sabbath day' [... the LORD ... day]
Exodus 35:2,3 - 'the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD', 'the sabbath day' [… the LORD … day …]
Leviticus 23:3 - 'the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD'
Deuteronomy 5:12,14 – 'the LORD', 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God' [… the LORD … day …]
Psalms 92:1 - 'A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day. It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD'
Isaiah 56:6 - 'Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath [day] from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant' (context new covenant) [... the LORD ... sabbath [day] ...]
Isaiah 58:13 - 'the sabbath ... my [the LORD's] holy day ... the holy [day] of the Lord' [... [the LORD's] ... day]
Isaiah 66:22,23 – 'the LORD', 'one sabbath [day] to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD' [… the LORD … [day] …]
Jeremiah 17:21 - 'saith the LORD... on the sabbath day' [... the LORD ... day]
Matthew 12:8 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day' [... the ... Lord ... day]
Mark 2:28 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day' [... the ... Lord ... day]
Luke 6:5 - 'the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath [day]' [... the ... Lord ... [day]]
Revelation 1:10 - 'the Lord's day'
There is no such thing as 'Sunday sacredness' in all of Scripture, except as a Mark of the Beast (Daniel 7:25).
Additionally, further references in the Greek are [every single 'first [day] of the week' text, as each text clearly shows that the first day is simply a number, with no special association or designation, other than it is simply one day toward the culmination of the week, being the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God]:
Genesis 1:5 (Masoretes Hebrew) יום אחד׃ (Transliterated) yôm echäd f
Matthew 28:1(a) - (Koine Greek) οψε δε σαββατων (Transliterated) oye de sabbatwn
Matthew 28:1(b) - (Koine Greek) εις μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) eiV mian sabbatwn
Mark 16:2 - (Koine Greek) και λιαν πρωι της μιας σαββατων (Transliterated) kai lian prwi ths mias sabbatwn
Mark 16:9 - (Koine Greek) αναστας δε πρωι πρωτη σαββατου (Transliterated) anastas de prwi prwth sabbatou
Luke 24:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn
John 20:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn
John 20:19 - (Koine Greek) τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th mia twn sabbatwn
Acts 20:7 - (Koine Greek) εν δε τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) en de th mia twn sabbatwn
1 Corinthians 16:2 - (Koine Greek) κατα μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) kata mian sabbatwn
That the Sabbath [of the Lord thy God], [being] the 7th day, is always the culmination of the week in God's Created order and is always referred to as such in all of scripture.
Therefore, every single “first [day] of the week” text upholds the 7th Day Sabbath, and is undeniable evidence of its continued existence and prominence.
The body of believers may gather on any and every day with no injunction anywhere found in scripture against such, and in truth they met "daily", "continually", etc (Mat 26:55; Mar 14:49; Luk 22:53, 24:33,36; Acts 19:9) and likewise among the followers of Jesus Christ (Luk 24:51,53; Acts 1:3,9, 2:46-47, 5:42, 6:1, 16:5, 17:11,17; Heb 3:13, etc). Yet, even in all that, none of that alters the 7th day, as it is always the memorial of God's rest from the foundation of the world (Heb 4).
We can begin to look at the so-called 'first [day] of the week' texts and see what is really happening therein, and whether Christ Jesus only met with the disciples on that day, or rather on many days, before and after His resurrection.
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
Most Christians are ignorant (without knowledge) of what the Bible says in regards honouring the resurrection of Jesus:
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
sooda
Veteran Member
Elohim were the children of EL in the Canaanite pantheon.
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
So, legalists, have a self-made law, a self-made right-doing, a self-made interpretation of God's words. So it is today. They turn away from God's Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) and substitute (put into the place of) their own law, their own vain tradition, so crucifying Christ Jesus afresh.
The others are simply licentious. Two sides of the same disobedient coin.
To keep the commandments of God is to Love (John 14:15; Exodus 30:6). Obedience to God, by His grace, is love. It is neither legalism, nor licentiousness (both of which transgresses God's Law, in differing ways; [1] Apostasy, [2] Rebellion).
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
The "Lord's Day" was and is a reference to Sunday worship in the early Church and beyond. The shift from a Shabbat observance gradually took place during the 2nd century, and it was done in recognition of Jesus' resurrection.
Unless one is Jewish, Shabbat observance is not required since it is part of Jewish Law, as the 613 Commandments in Torah are for them, thus not required of Gentiles.
Also, the "mark of the beast" has nothing to do with the Lord's Day, so if someone is teaching you that it is, let me recommend you find another teacher.
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
Untrue:
Additional history of the Sabbath in scripture and the so-called ECF (the easily confused fellows):
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
Untrue, more:
Additional history of the Sabbath in scripture and the so-called ECF (the easily confused fellows):
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
Ok. I know how some like ordered lists, so hear goes:
[1.] To begin with, there is not a single place in all the TaNaKh, neither the portion thereof, the Torah (Gen-Deut) where God, Moses, Joshua, or any person of heaven above, or on this earth below, state on biblical record that there are exactly '613' 'mitzvot'. For the New Testament minded (Matt-Rev), the same applies also. Again, absent. Jesus, as a final example (for the New Testament minded), did not once enumerate the 'mitzvot' of the Torah for us in such fashion, to '613' or any other such number.
[2.] The enumeration of '613' is a Rabbincal, yea even after a Talmudical, fashioning or calculation or enumeration. No one has to take my word for this, it is said as much on the very site so kindly provided to us (it has been provided so many times, I lost count):
"... Below is a list of the 613 mitzvot (commandments). It is based primarily on the list compiled by Rambam in the Mishneh Torah, but I have consulted other sources as well. As I said in the page on halakhah, Rambam's list is probably the most widely accepted list, but it is not the only one. The order is my own, as are the explanations of how some rules are derived from some biblical passages. ..." - Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
As a side note:
The RaMBaM (whom I have read on numerous occasions, with others, such as RaMBaN, Pirke, etc) is actually, Ra(bbi) M(oses) Ba(ni) M(aimon), aka Maimonides, of the 12th cent Morocco & Egypt (during the Almoravid (Muslim) empire, and died under the Ayyubid sultanate) - Link
[3.] RaMBaM's listing isn't the only one. There are other listings, by other Rabbis, all several thousand years removed from Moses or Joshua, and the website provided demonstrates the accuracy of this point.
[4.] RaMBaM's order of listing isn't the only one. There are other orderings, by other Rabbis and persons non-Rabbi (scholars, etc), and again, the very website provided, demonstrates this by stating it out as matters of fact, and in personal ordered listing preferred instead to RaMBaM's (example 2 orders at least on the face of it).
[5.] RaMBaM's explanation for the listing and ordering thereof is not the only one. There are explanations, just as there are other listings and orderings by other Rabbis, etc. (generally, not exclusively, following after RaMBaM, (thus post 12th cent), possible just more easily accessible)
[6.] The '613' number is for some calculated on Gematraic principles, with differing reasons or starting points by differing Rabbis, and for this reason, some disagree that it should be said number, for instance:
"... I disagree there are 613 Mitzvot because the explanation for the number is based on gematria, however the gematria of the Torah is not Standard ( Long preview of 'The Genesis Wheel: & other hermeneutical essays'. ). Instead of the letters Shin and Tav having the value of 300 and 400, they are valued at 3 and 4, and using this most secret gematria the number of Mitzvot would be 217 (31 × 7). However 613 is discovered with this gematria in the opening verses of Genesis so it is still a very significant gematria number.
We first get the idea of 613 mitzvot from Rabbi Simlai:
From Makkot 24a:
"דרש רבי שמלאי שש מאות ושלש עשרה מצות נאמרו לו למשה שלש מאות וששים וחמש לאוין כמנין ימות החמה ומאתים וארבעים ושמונה עשה כנגד איבריו של אדם אמר רב המנונא מאי קרא (דברים לג, ד) תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה תורה בגימטריא שית מאה וחד סרי הוי אנכי ולא יהיה לך מפי הגבורה שמענום
§ Rabbi Simlai taught: There were 613 mitzvot stated to Moses in the Torah, consisting of 365 prohibitions corresponding to the number of days in the solar year, and 248 positive mitzvot corresponding to the number of a person’s limbs. Rav Hamnuna said: What is the verse that alludes to this? It is written: “Moses commanded to us the Torah, an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob” (Deuteronomy 34:4). The word Torah, in terms of its numerical value [gimatriyya], is 611, the number of mitzvot that were received and taught by Moses our teacher. In addition, there are two mitzvot: “I am the Lord your God” and: “You shall have no other gods” (Exodus 20:2, 3), the first two of the Ten Commandments, that we heard from the mouth of the Almighty, for a total of 613."[1]
However the word תורה is valued at 215; Tav:4 + Vav:6 + Resh:200 + Heh:5 = 215. So if we add the two for the first two commandments the people heard at Sinai: 215 + 2 = 217.
Regarding the number of צִיצִית which is supposed to equal the number of Mitzvot:
Rashi "וזכרתם את כל מצות ה'. שֶׁמִּנְיַן גִּימַטְרִיָּא שֶׁל צִיצִית שֵׁשׁ מֵאוֹת, וּשְׁמוֹנָה חוּטִין וַחֲמִשָּׁה קְשָׁרִים הֲרֵי תרי"ג (תנחומא): You will remember all of Adonoy’s commandments. As the numerical value of צִיצִית is 600, and the eight threads and five knots equal 613."[2]
צִיצִית = 204
plus 8 threads and 5 knots = 217.
You can check the sums on this gematria calculator which uses the correct gematria of the Torah; Shematria
Vilna Gaon in Orot Hagra also disagreed that 613 was the correct number, saying;
It definitely cannot be said that only 613, and no more, come under the category of mitzvot. For if so, there are only three mitzvot from Bereishi.t until Bo, and many portions of the Torah contain no mitzvot. That is not plausible… The mitzvot are thus multitudinous beyond enumeration… ..." - Are there really 613 Mitzvot? : Gematria
We first get the idea of 613 mitzvot from Rabbi Simlai:
From Makkot 24a:
"דרש רבי שמלאי שש מאות ושלש עשרה מצות נאמרו לו למשה שלש מאות וששים וחמש לאוין כמנין ימות החמה ומאתים וארבעים ושמונה עשה כנגד איבריו של אדם אמר רב המנונא מאי קרא (דברים לג, ד) תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה תורה בגימטריא שית מאה וחד סרי הוי אנכי ולא יהיה לך מפי הגבורה שמענום
§ Rabbi Simlai taught: There were 613 mitzvot stated to Moses in the Torah, consisting of 365 prohibitions corresponding to the number of days in the solar year, and 248 positive mitzvot corresponding to the number of a person’s limbs. Rav Hamnuna said: What is the verse that alludes to this? It is written: “Moses commanded to us the Torah, an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob” (Deuteronomy 34:4). The word Torah, in terms of its numerical value [gimatriyya], is 611, the number of mitzvot that were received and taught by Moses our teacher. In addition, there are two mitzvot: “I am the Lord your God” and: “You shall have no other gods” (Exodus 20:2, 3), the first two of the Ten Commandments, that we heard from the mouth of the Almighty, for a total of 613."[1]
However the word תורה is valued at 215; Tav:4 + Vav:6 + Resh:200 + Heh:5 = 215. So if we add the two for the first two commandments the people heard at Sinai: 215 + 2 = 217.
Regarding the number of צִיצִית which is supposed to equal the number of Mitzvot:
Rashi "וזכרתם את כל מצות ה'. שֶׁמִּנְיַן גִּימַטְרִיָּא שֶׁל צִיצִית שֵׁשׁ מֵאוֹת, וּשְׁמוֹנָה חוּטִין וַחֲמִשָּׁה קְשָׁרִים הֲרֵי תרי"ג (תנחומא): You will remember all of Adonoy’s commandments. As the numerical value of צִיצִית is 600, and the eight threads and five knots equal 613."[2]
צִיצִית = 204
plus 8 threads and 5 knots = 217.
You can check the sums on this gematria calculator which uses the correct gematria of the Torah; Shematria
Vilna Gaon in Orot Hagra also disagreed that 613 was the correct number, saying;
It definitely cannot be said that only 613, and no more, come under the category of mitzvot. For if so, there are only three mitzvot from Bereishi.t until Bo, and many portions of the Torah contain no mitzvot. That is not plausible… The mitzvot are thus multitudinous beyond enumeration… ..." - Are there really 613 Mitzvot? : Gematria
[7.] Moses specifically said by inspiration of God, that what God spoke and wrote at Mt. Sinai with His own voice and finger from Heaven were "the ten commandments". God came down upon Mt. Sinai in awesome majesty, with the whole mountain covered in the fire of the presence of the Holy Angels of God, so that none but those whom God called up were able to come near.
Exo_34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Deu_4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deu_10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.
Deu_4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deu_10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.
In each place the Hebrew word "[1697] dabar" is used, as the Ten Commandments are not merely laws or commands, but individual promises of God each that He would perform in those who would walk in His covenant. More on that later as needful.
[8.] The "ten commandments" that God spake in Person to all the people without the mediator Moses, were a complete Law, nothing further being added unto them, except later as to be written in a scroll/book through a mediator (Moses):
Deu_5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
[9.] The "ten commandments" were written by God's own finger originally on sapphire stone and which second set was placed into the "pattern" Ark of the Covenant in the earthly tabernacle (Exodus 25:16,21).
[10.] The other precepts, statutes, laws, commands, ordinances, etc were all given by God through the mediator Moses, to be written by Moses' hand, and placed not inside of the Ark, but to be placed in the side of the Ark:
Deu_31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
So, while important, God makes distinction, by several means. The many other things which God gave fall under the umbrella of the Ten Commandments:
Psa_119:96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.
and as such '613' probably wouldn't even come close to the depth of God's Ten Commandments, which are the expansion of His perfect character of Love, which itself is expressed in the greatest (Deuteronomy 6:5) and second greatest commandments (Leviticus 19:17-18) (both of whose contexts are the Ten Commandments, see Deut. 5, etc).
So, while important, God makes distinction, by several means. The many other things which God gave fall under the umbrella of the Ten Commandments:
Psa_119:96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.
and as such '613' probably wouldn't even come close to the depth of God's Ten Commandments, which are the expansion of His perfect character of Love, which itself is expressed in the greatest (Deuteronomy 6:5) and second greatest commandments (Leviticus 19:17-18) (both of whose contexts are the Ten Commandments, see Deut. 5, etc).
[11.] The '613' enumeration only considers material within the texts of the Torah (Gen-Deut), and not any other material from the Nevi'im or Ketuvim, as if God somehow stopped talking and giving commands through men, priests or prophets or kings, see Isaiah 8:20 (Law and Testimony)
[12.] Even from a basic search of scripture, the Torah itself makes differences between words:
Gen 26:5 KJB Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Gen 26:5 KJB Str. BecauseH6118 thatH834 AbrahamH85 obeyedH8085 my voice,H6963 and keptH8104 my charge,H4931 my commandments,H4687 my statutes,H2708 and my laws.H8451
Gen 26:5 HOT עקב אשׁר־שׁמע אברהם בקלי וישׁמר משׁמרתי מצותי חקותי ותורתי׃
Gen 26:5 HOT Str. עקבH6118 אשׁרH834 שׁמעH8085 אברהםH85 בקליH6963 וישׁמרH8104 משׁמרתיH4931 מצותיH4687 חקותיH2708 ותורתי׃H8451 (apologies for how this posts, not much can be done about that, I used highligher to mark the beginning and ending, so while the sentence reads left to right, each individual word correctly reads right to left)
Gen 26:5 HOT Translit. ëqev ásher-shäma av'rähäm B'qoliy waYish'mor mish'mar'Tiy mitz'wotay chuQôtay w'tôrotäy
Gen 26:5 KJB Str. BecauseH6118 thatH834 AbrahamH85 obeyedH8085 my voice,H6963 and keptH8104 my charge,H4931 my commandments,H4687 my statutes,H2708 and my laws.H8451
Gen 26:5 HOT עקב אשׁר־שׁמע אברהם בקלי וישׁמר משׁמרתי מצותי חקותי ותורתי׃
Gen 26:5 HOT Str. עקבH6118 אשׁרH834 שׁמעH8085 אברהםH85 בקליH6963 וישׁמרH8104 משׁמרתיH4931 מצותיH4687 חקותיH2708 ותורתי׃H8451 (apologies for how this posts, not much can be done about that, I used highligher to mark the beginning and ending, so while the sentence reads left to right, each individual word correctly reads right to left)
Gen 26:5 HOT Translit. ëqev ásher-shäma av'rähäm B'qoliy waYish'mor mish'mar'Tiy mitz'wotay chuQôtay w'tôrotäy
Notice the distinction made between H4687 (mitzvot) and H8451 (torah), which is again found in Exodus 16:28,
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
This should suffice for now.
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sooda
Veteran Member
The so-called “mark of the beast” is presumed by most scholars to allude to the coins of the Roman Empire that bore the image of the emperor.
Antiochus also had a coin struck with his image. The Jews hated to use these coins with graven images on them.
Rare coin from King Antiochus’s rule discovered in ...
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Rare-coin-from-King-Antiochuss-rule-discovered-in...
Dec 20, 2016 · Antiochus was a reviled king who made draconian decrees, sparking the Maccabean revolt that led to the victory of the Maccabees and the reclamation of the Temple.
The coin was found near the Hasmonean walls that cut through the center of the citadel’s courtyard,...
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
Consider:
Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Notice the explicit reference to the "commandments of God" in relation to "him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." which is a direct citation from Exodus 20:11, and other texts related to it. The seal of God is connected to keeping God's commandments, as God is the Creator, and thus Re-Creator (Redeemer), and so the mark of the Beast (creature), is a counterfeit sign of obedience to its demands.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Hello Soda, (emphsis mine in red above) your reading into the scriptures again what the scriptures are not saying. Where does it say in those scriptures when you shall see the abomination of desolation "AGAIN" Can you see the peoblem your having now?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Your assertion of what I posted as being "untrue" is untrue. [continued below]
And if you were to go back to Exodus and read what happens after Jesus comes down Mt. Sinai with the first 10 Commandments, keep reading. Moses makes it clear that these are for the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews. At no point does he, or any prophet in the Tanakh, state that these are for Gentiles.
Also, do you keep kosher? If not, you have defeated your own assertion -- unless you're picking & choosing which Laws to observe that is.
And if you have any doubt about this, go to Judaism 101 and ask those steeped in Jewish Law which is correct.
BTW, please stop the cutting & pasting that which includes things we're not even talking about. Please stick to the subject and not try to impress us with incessant word-salad.
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