"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[3rdAngel]

Soapy, I am starting to like you more. I also think the earth, either all or part of creation. will be populated by people who have gained eternal life. I see nothing about any of them "going to heaven" which is what most people hope to do. They would be better off trying to get to the glorious paradise that the earth will be.

It is actually both (heaven and earth). At the second coming Gods saints will meet Jesus in the air and reign with Jesus in heaven as kings and priests in judgement on the wicked for 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years, the new Jerusalem (city of God) will come down from heaven with Gods' people and judgement will be executed on the wicked after the second resurrection. When all the wicked have been destroyed God will make the new heavens and the new earth and this will be our final resting place with Jesus on the new earth. The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Jeremiah 4:23-26; Ezekiel 28:18, 19; Malachi 4:1; 1 Corinthians 6:2, 3; Revelation 20; 21:1-5.)

Take Care.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

1802 posts. Thank you @Soapy and @3rdAngel (and thank God we don't have a greasy 4th).

 

[CG Didymus]

Another one that has joined in a discussion thread and taken the wrong line on what a particular person (aka: me, in this case) was saying.

I am, in fact, not expressing a ‘7th day’ Jewish Sabbath. I was not quoting those verses for that reason. You might like to read my previous posts to get the point I was making - but, in fact, that wouldn’t do any good. It’s best to just not make accusations or make pointed remarks at someone when they are not making out something that you very wrongly accuse them of doing.

You know what, you're absolutely right. I quoted those things from your post, but I was asking the question to 3rdAngel. It was 3rdAngel, not you, that I was "accusing" of believing those things. Fortunately, he understood that and answered it. Sorry about that.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

It is actually both (heaven and earth). At the second coming Gods saints will meet Jesus in the air and reign with Jesus in heaven as kings and priests in judgement on the wicked for 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years, the new Jerusalem (city of God) will come down from heaven with Gods' people and judgement will be executed on the wicked after the second resurrection. When all the wicked have been destroyed God will make the new heavens and the new earth and this will be our final resting place with Jesus on the new earth. The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Jeremiah 4:23-26; Ezekiel 28:18, 19; Malachi 4:1; 1 Corinthians 6:2, 3; Revelation 20; 21:1-5.)

Take Care.

Thanks Angel. This all sounds great. But no one has given the verse that says anything about people being in heaven.Can you help? Just name the verse that says people will reign in HEAVEN. Really should be pretty easy don't you think?

 

[3rdAngel]

You know what, you're absolutely right. I quoted those things from your post, but I was asking the question to 3rdAngel. It was 3rdAngel, not you, that I was "accusing" of believing those things. Fortunately, he understood that and answered it. Sorry about that.

Hi GCD, I was not sure who you were asking though to be honest as your post was address to @Soapy and not me. I answered it anyways as I thought the questions were good ones and knew the answer to them from the scriptures as shown in the linked post. Your post and questions were answered with a detailed scripture response provided in post # 1787 linked.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

Thanks Angel. This all sounds great. But no one has given the verse that says anything about people being in heaven.Can you help? Just name the verse that says people will reign in HEAVEN. Really should be pretty easy don't you think?

As posted above God's saints will be caught up in the air to be with Jesus at the second coming and then reign with Christ for 1000 years in heaven passing judgement on the wicked dead according to the scriptures and at the end of the 1000 years will come down to earth in the new Jerusalem to live on the new earth.

• 1Thessalonians 4: 13-18 13, But I would not have you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning them which are asleep, that you sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.14, For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15, For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17, THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD. 18, Why comfort one another with these words.

The scriptures teach at the second coming the righteous dead will be raised back to life and the living and the wicked dead will be caught up in the air to be with the Lord. At this time we will put on immortality and be given new heavenly bodies to reign as kings and priests

• 1 Corinthians 15:50-57 50, Now this I say, brothers, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; NEITHER DOES CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION. 51, Behold, I show you a mystery; WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP, BUT WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED 52, IN A MOMENT, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, AND THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED. 53, FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, AND THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY. 54, So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55, O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory? 56, The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57, But thanks be to God, which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Flesh and blood of this world cannot enter into Gods' kingdom. Gods people will be given new bodies at the second coming when we meet the Lord in the air before we go to heaven to reign with Christ for 1000 years.

• John 14:1-4 1, Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me. 2, IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE ARE MANY MANSIONS: IF IT WERE NOT SO, I WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU. I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU. 3, AND IF I GO AND PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU, I WILL COME AGAIN, AND RECEIVE YOU TO MYSELF; THAT WHERE I AM, THERE YOU MAY BE ALSO. 4, And where I go you know, and the way you know.

The saints will the judging the wicked with Jesus in heaven for 1000 years..

• Daniel 7:22 22, UNTIL THE ANCIENT OF DAYS CAME, AND JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN TO THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH; AND THE TIME CAME THAT THE SAINTS POSSESSED THE KINGDOM.

• 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 2, DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD? AND IF THE WORLD SHALL BE JUDGED BY YOU, ARE YOU UNWORTHY TO JUDGE THE SMALLEST MATTERS. 3, KNOW YOU NOT THAT WE SHALL JUDGE ANGELS? how much more things that pertain to this life?

After the 1000 years of judgement with Christ in Heaven the saints come down in the new Jerusalem and Christ will raise the wicked dead to life to receive their judgement and the new heavens and the new earth will be made and the saints shall reign and life in the new heavens and the new earth.

• Revelation 20:6-9 6, BLESSED AND HOLY IS HE THAT HAS PART IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION: ON SUCH THE SECOND DEATH HAS NO POWER, BUT THEY SHALL BE PRIESTS OF GOD AND OF CHRIST, AND SHALL REIGN WITH HIM A THOUSAND YEARS. 7, AND WHEN THE THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED, SATAN SHALL BE LOOSED OUT OF HIS PRISON, 8, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.9, AND THEY WENT UP ON THE BREADTH OF THE EARTH, AND COMPASSED THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS ABOUT, AND THE BELOVED CITY: AND FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN, AND DEVOURED THEM.

• Revelation 21:2-8 2, And I JOHN SAW THE HOLY CITY, NEW JERUSALEM, COMING DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN, PREPARED AS A BRIDE ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND. 3, And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, BEHOLD, THE TABERNACLE OF GOD IS WITH MEN, AND HE WILL DWELL WITH THEM, AND THEY SHALL BE HIS PEOPLE, AND GOD HIMSELF SHALL BE WITH THEM, AND BE THEIR GOD. 4, And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5, And he that sat on the throne said, BEHOLD, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW. AND HE SAID TO ME, WRITE: FOR THESE WORDS ARE TRUE AND FAITHFUL. 6, And he said to me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to him that is thirsty of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7, HE THAT OVERCOMES SHALL INHERIT ALL THINGS; AND I WILL BE HIS GOD, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. 8, But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So you see, Gods saints at the second coming will go to be with Jesus in heaven to reign with Christ 1000 years in judgement of the wicked. Their final living place however, is the new earth after the 1000 year millennium in Heaven. As shown from the scriptures above, the resurrection of the righteous dead, they and the living saints are caught up "to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:17). Then Christ will fulfill the promise He made just before He left this world: "'I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also'" (John 14:2, 3). Jesus described the place to which He will take His followers as "'My Father's house,'" where there are "'many mansions,'" or dwelling places (John 14:2). Here Jesus refers to the New Jerusalem, which does not come to this earth until the end of the millennium. At the Second Advent, then, when the righteous "meet the Lord in the air," their destination is heaven—not the earth that they have just left. Christ does not establish His kingdom of glory on the earth at this time. He does that at the end of the millennium (1000 years of judgment).

Take Care.

 

[samtonga43]

Try to reason rationally. There usually is a reason for rudeness. People that are constantly losing an argument quite often use rudeness because the alternative is to admit that one is wrong. You have been losing from the start here. Clearly you do not want to own up to that. Hence for you it eould be a bad idea.

Yes, I have noticed that people that (sic) are constantly losing an argument quite often use rudeness because the alternative is to admit that one is wrong. But you know, SZ, even though you have been losing from the start here, it’s OK to be wrong. Acknowledging our deficiencies is a grown-up thing to do.

No, you simply pretend the evidence does not exist.

No pretence on my part. It doesn’t exist. There is no evidence that I think it is a bad idea to be polite.

But keep trying, SZ; I’m enjoying your pretend ‘evidence’.

 

[samtonga43]

Another logical fail. Does everything have to be painfully explained to you? If a person can only state "it is obvious" in a situation where evidence is needed, even though it has been explained to them why evidence is needed it is a rather good sign that there is no such evidence.

I disagree. Evidence is not needed in certain circumstances, SZ. For example:
Blue is a color.
All living Scottish people have brains.
A bachelor is an unmarried man

 

[samtonga43]

Do you think that you are fooling anyone? You use smileys to insult others. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

SZ, We use smileys because they are available, in this forum, to express our reactions. Some of your statements cause me to mentally roll my eyes because they are irrational (your statements, not my eyes. ).

I hope you’re not considering reporting me for abusing a smiley, SZ. You do know that a smiley has no embedded thoughts or feelings, don’t you? It is an emoji; to say that emojis cannot be abused is an axiom (see previous post).

 

[samtonga43]

No, there is plenty of evidence that you believe it is a bad idea to be polite. Your continual rudeness even after being corrected is evidence of that.

Sorry, won’t work. Here’s why…
1. I am not continually rude
2. Even if I were continually rude, that is not evidence that I believe it is a bad idea to be polite.

Also, as I’ve said before, I do not take instruction on politeness from you. That would be ridiculous.

You might not understand the concept of evidence.

After this little exchange, it should be obvious that while I do understand the concept of evidence, you do not.

 

[samtonga43]

To be honest here sis. I do not see that you have been rude anywhere in your responses

God bless

Thanks for this, 3rdAngel. I am of the opinion that SZ's definition of rudeness is not the same as most people's.

I hope you had a Christmas filled with the joy and the peace of Christ.

"All the Christmas presents in the world are worth
nothing without the presence of Christ."​

 

[Soapy]

Soapy, I am starting to like you more. I also think the earth, either all or part of creation. will be populated by people who have gained eternal life. I see nothing about any of them "going to heaven" which is what most people hope to do. They would be better off trying to get to the glorious paradise that the earth will be.

Thank you for the complements.

Regarding ‘going to Heaven’, I must emphasise that these are ‘The Elect’, only. The elect are those who were pre-chosen by God from before the foundation of creation. The initial set of people were the ones Jesus referred to here:

• “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. …. While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.“ (John 17: 6,7 … 12)
  
• “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them .… Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.” (John 17:13 … 24)

So, again, it is only the ELECT who will be where Jesus is “In Heaven” ruling over creation with the Elect, who will be as kings and priests over creation. This is the structure that will replace the angels who are currently set in ruling stations over creation headed over by almighty God:

• ‘For the world to come will by no means be subject to angels” (Hebrew 2:5)

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, I have noticed that people that (sic) are constantly losing an argument quite often use rudeness because the alternative is to admit that one is wrong. But you know, SZ, even though you have been losing from the start here, it’s OK to be wrong. Acknowledging our deficiencies is a grown-up thing to do.

No pretence on my part. It doesn’t exist. There is no evidence that I think it is a bad idea to be polite.

But keep trying, SZ; I’m enjoying your pretend ‘evidence’.

Sorry, but your own prejudice apparently blinds you. When one is continually rude. When it is shown that that even goes against one's claimed religious beliefs and is still rude, then that does indicate that they think that being rude is a good idea.

Tell me, why else would you continue to be rude? I will note that in this post even though you got your claims very very wrong, you were at least polite. When the OP has to continually run away because he was not able to answer questions indicates that he knows that he has lost. He never did deal with the problem of the basis of his beliefs. He can't afford to.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, won’t work. Here’s why…
1. I am not continually rude
2. Even if I were continually rude, that is not evidence that I believe it is a bad idea to be polite.

Also, as I’ve said before, I do not take instruction on politeness from you. That would be ridiculous.


After this little exchange, it should be obvious that while I do understand the concept of evidence, you do not.

You were rude for an extremely extended period of time. And yes, that supported my claim.

Why do you think that your continued rudeness is not evidence of you thinking that it is a bad idea to be polite?

 

[Subduction Zone]

SZ, We use smileys because they are available, in this forum, to express our reactions. Some of your statements cause me to mentally roll my eyes because they are irrational (your statements, not my eyes. ).

I hope you’re not considering reporting me for abusing a smiley, SZ. You do know that a smiley has no embedded thoughts or feelings, don’t you? It is an emoji; to say that emojis cannot be abused is an axiom (see previous post).

Yes, but using them to insult others is being rude. They are usually meant to be more for self deprecation than attack. You use then to attack. You have been on the internet long enough to know which is which.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I disagree. Evidence is not needed in certain circumstances, SZ. For example:
Blue is a color.
All living Scottish people have brains.
A bachelor is an unmarried man

Yes, there are times when a evidence is not needed, But that only occurs when everyone agrees on a point. Your first and last ones fail very badly because they are true because they are defined that way. The last one is true because of a simple logical argument. When everyone agrees on a point evidence is not needed. But we do not agree on your claims. Therefore evidence is needed from them. Please note with your three examples providing evidence for them would be dead easy. If someone demanded evidence you could give it to them. You were never able to do that with any of your accusations of "assumptions". And please note, the one that we are discussing amounts to a difference in reasoning. You may not agree with the reasoning that I used, but it is still not an assumption since there was reasoning behind the claim.

At best you could say "your reasoning is incorrect for your conclusion'.

 

[3rdAngel]

Sorry, won’t work. Here’s why…
1. I am not continually rude
2. Even if I were continually rude, that is not evidence that I believe it is a bad idea to be polite.

Also, as I’ve said before, I do not take instruction on politeness from you. That would be ridiculous.


After this little exchange, it should be obvious that while I do understand the concept of evidence, you do not.

I do no think you have been rude or impolite at all and seen no evidence of this at all. I think Matthew 5:11 is applicable here sis. Seems like you are being blessed to me

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

As posted above God's saints will be caught up in the air to be with Jesus at the second coming and then reign with Christ for 1000 years in heaven passing judgement on the wicked dead according to the scriptures and at the end of the 1000 years will come down to earth in the new Jerusalem to live on the new earth.

• 1Thessalonians 4: 13-18 13, But I would not have you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning them which are asleep, that you sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.14, For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15, For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17, THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD. 18, Why comfort one another with these words.

The scriptures teach at the second coming the righteous dead will be raised back to life and the living and the wicked dead will be caught up in the air to be with the Lord. At this time we will put on immortality and be given new heavenly bodies to reign as kings and priests

• 1 Corinthians 15:50-57 50, Now this I say, brothers, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; NEITHER DOES CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION. 51, Behold, I show you a mystery; WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP, BUT WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED 52, IN A MOMENT, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, AND THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED. 53, FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, AND THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY. 54, So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55, O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory? 56, The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57, But thanks be to God, which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Flesh and blood of this world cannot enter into Gods' kingdom. Gods people will be given new bodies at the second coming when we meet the Lord in the air before we go to heaven to reign with Christ for 1000 years.

• John 14:1-4 1, Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me. 2, IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE ARE MANY MANSIONS: IF IT WERE NOT SO, I WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU. I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU. 3, AND IF I GO AND PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU, I WILL COME AGAIN, AND RECEIVE YOU TO MYSELF; THAT WHERE I AM, THERE YOU MAY BE ALSO. 4, And where I go you know, and the way you know.

The saints will the judging the wicked with Jesus in heaven for 1000 years..

• Daniel 7:22 22, UNTIL THE ANCIENT OF DAYS CAME, AND JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN TO THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH; AND THE TIME CAME THAT THE SAINTS POSSESSED THE KINGDOM.

• 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 2, DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD? AND IF THE WORLD SHALL BE JUDGED BY YOU, ARE YOU UNWORTHY TO JUDGE THE SMALLEST MATTERS. 3, KNOW YOU NOT THAT WE SHALL JUDGE ANGELS? how much more things that pertain to this life?

After the 1000 years of judgement with Christ in Heaven the saints come down in the new Jerusalem and Christ will raise the wicked dead to life to receive their judgement and the new heavens and the new earth will be made and the saints shall reign and life in the new heavens and the new earth.

• Revelation 20:6-9 6, BLESSED AND HOLY IS HE THAT HAS PART IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION: ON SUCH THE SECOND DEATH HAS NO POWER, BUT THEY SHALL BE PRIESTS OF GOD AND OF CHRIST, AND SHALL REIGN WITH HIM A THOUSAND YEARS. 7, AND WHEN THE THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED, SATAN SHALL BE LOOSED OUT OF HIS PRISON, 8, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.9, AND THEY WENT UP ON THE BREADTH OF THE EARTH, AND COMPASSED THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS ABOUT, AND THE BELOVED CITY: AND FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN, AND DEVOURED THEM.

• Revelation 21:2-8 2, And I JOHN SAW THE HOLY CITY, NEW JERUSALEM, COMING DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN, PREPARED AS A BRIDE ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND. 3, And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, BEHOLD, THE TABERNACLE OF GOD IS WITH MEN, AND HE WILL DWELL WITH THEM, AND THEY SHALL BE HIS PEOPLE, AND GOD HIMSELF SHALL BE WITH THEM, AND BE THEIR GOD. 4, And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5, And he that sat on the throne said, BEHOLD, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW. AND HE SAID TO ME, WRITE: FOR THESE WORDS ARE TRUE AND FAITHFUL. 6, And he said to me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to him that is thirsty of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7, HE THAT OVERCOMES SHALL INHERIT ALL THINGS; AND I WILL BE HIS GOD, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. 8, But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So you see, Gods saints at the second coming will go to be with Jesus in heaven to reign with Christ 1000 years in judgement of the wicked. Their final living place however, is the new earth after the 1000 year millennium in Heaven. As shown from the scriptures above, the resurrection of the righteous dead, they and the living saints are caught up "to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:17). Then Christ will fulfill the promise He made just before He left this world: "'I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also'" (John 14:2, 3). Jesus described the place to which He will take His followers as "'My Father's house,'" where there are "'many mansions,'" or dwelling places (John 14:2). Here Jesus refers to the New Jerusalem, which does not come to this earth until the end of the millennium. At the Second Advent, then, when the righteous "meet the Lord in the air," their destination is heaven—not the earth that they have just left. Christ does not establish His kingdom of glory on the earth at this time. He does that at the end of the millennium (1000 years of judgment).

Take Care.

Just two comments for now. I Thes 4:17 says that we will be caught up in the clouds with Jesus. Clouds are near earth not heaven. Nothing about anyone going to heaven. John 14 says Jesus will come back and receive us. When he comes back he will be on earth, not heaven. Again nothing about anyone going toheaven. Just people being with Jesus on earth and in the clouds above earth. Anything about anyone being in heaven is man's ideas, not the Bible.

 

[3rdAngel]

Just two comments for now. I Thes 4:17 says that we will be caught up in the clouds with Jesus. Clouds are near earth not heaven. Nothing about anyone going to heaven. John 14 says Jesus will come back and receive us. When he comes back he will be on earth, not heaven. Again nothing about anyone going toheaven. Just people being with Jesus on earth and in the clouds above earth. Anything about anyone being in heaven is man's ideas, not the Bible.

Your objections here are pretty easy to answer if you look at all the scriptures in the post you are quoting from. For example 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 shows that both the living and dead in Christ that are raised to life at the second coming, are all caught up in the clouds to be with Christ. If they were going to stay on the earth at this time there would be no point in us meeting Jesus in the clouds and be taken away from the earth to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus would simply come down to the earth but that does not happen. Secondly flesh and blood can live on the earth. According to 1 Corinthians 15:50-57 we will put on new heavenly bodies to reign with Christ as kings and priests. John 14:1-4 also is in harmony here and tells us that Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us so that where he is (heaven with the father) when he comes again (second coming) he will receive us to himself so that where he is we may also be with him. Notice how all scriptures are in agreement with each other. John 14:1-4 is in agreement with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 of Jesus coming to receive us unto himself by greeting us in the clouds of heaven, giving us new heavenly bodies to take us all to be with him in the places he has prepared for us in His fathers house (heaven - the fathers house is in heaven). The other scriptures from Revelation 20:6-9; Revelation 21:2-8 and Daniel 7:22 all tell us what we will be doing for 1000 years in heaven and that we will be participating with Jesus in the judgement of the wicked. After the 1000 year millennium we will be returning to the earth in the new Jerusalem. After judgement of the wicked and the new heavens and earth are made we will then be living in the new earth with God.

Take Care.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Your objections here are pretty easy to answer if you look at all the scriptures in the post you are quoting from. For example 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 shows that both the living and dead in Christ that are raised to life at the second coming, are all caught up in the clouds to be with Christ. If they were going to stay on the earth at this time there would be no point in us meeting Jesus in the clouds and be taken away from the earth to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus would simply come down to the earth but that does not happen. Secondly flesh and blood can live on the earth. According to 1 Corinthians 15:50-57 we will put on new heavenly bodies to reign with Christ as kings and priests. John 14:1-4 also is in harmony here and tells us that Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us so that where he is (heaven with the father) when he comes again (second coming) he will receive us to himself so that where he is we may also be with him. Notice how all scriptures are in agreement with each other. John 14:1-4 is in agreement with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 of Jesus coming to receive us unto himself by greeting us in the clouds of heaven, giving us new heavenly bodies to take us all to be with him in the places he has prepared for us in His fathers house (heaven - the fathers house is in heaven). The other scriptures from Revelation 20:6-9; Revelation 21:2-8 and Daniel 7:22 all tell us what we will be doing for 1000 years in heaven and that we will be participating with Jesus in the judgement of the wicked. After the 1000 year millennium we will be returning to the earth in the new Jerusalem. After judgement of the wicked and the new heavens and earth are makde we will then be living in the new earth.

Take Care.

I am sure this is what you believe because it is what you have been taught. But the verses do not say anything about heaven. They say Jesus is coming back to earth and we will be with him (on earth). I am sure you will not change your beliefs because of this. But NOTHING in the Bible uses the word "heaven" and says anyone has gone or will go there. Thanks for your answers though. They are what most people believe. No one has ever been able to give me one verse with the word "heaven" that says someone went there. And I feel sure you cannot do it either.