The Lord's Prayer...What are we Praying For?

[Deeje]

It is interesting that Christians pray for god’s will to be done in one prayer, and in another prayer ask him to bend to their will and change the course of events in their favor.

That is an astute observation....and one that I agree with. So what do you think that means?

 

[2ndpillar]

What is God's Kingdom? Does it have one path leading to it, or many?
And what do you see as "God's plan" for planet Earth and its inhabitants?

For sure we need the help of God's spirit to stay on a cramped and narrow road.....but in what way do you believe that it is cramped and narrow?

The path to "life" is not "cramped", it is simply "narrow", as in that one must "keep the commandments" to walk on it (Matthew 19:17), and "few" walk on that path. As for "God's plan", Joel 3 gives a good synopsis. You get the valley of judgment, where the nations are judged, and then you get "Jerusalem will be holy", and the "mountains will drip with sweet wine, and the hills will flow with milk", and the "brooks of Judah will flow with water".

 

[Deeje]

There are two forms of this prayer found in the Gospels and of the two Luke's is considerably shorter than Matthew's. The form found in the Didache is longer than MT's by a doxology at the end, which you refer to. So the question, which is original? Most believe that it would be difficult to conceive of Luke daring to leave out petitions from a longer form since the prayer is Jesus' own. More likely is the probability that Matthew added the doxology.

Many Protestants would be surprised to learn that the doxology was added later to a Prayer that they believe are the words of Jesus. No one really knows when or by whom this addition occurred. As a result, hundreds of millions of religious people in Christendom have for centuries recited the prayer with the addition of those unauthorized words as a conclusion. It seems as if they have never stopped to think of how at the beginning of the prayer they could recite the words “Thy kingdom come” and then in the conclusion of their prayer say: “Thine is the kingdom.” If the kingdom was already God’s, why should they pray in the same prayer: “Thy kingdom come”?

What do Catholics think God's Kingdom is? What are they praying for?

 

[Jollybear]

I think the "our father prayer" is a good summary of the entire bible.

"OUR father." Meaning God is the source of everyone and everything.

"Who is in heaven" this dont mean hes not on earth, it just means God fills all space and matter and transcends it.

"Hollowed be your name", this means God is just, loving, mercyful all combined. It also means we respect him.

"Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as its done in heaven" this means wer asking for what goes on in the angelic realm of heaven, where everyone obeys the golden rule, that this come on earth. This would make heaven on earth. Utopia.

"Give us this day our daily bread" means food, work, shelter, our basic needs.

"And forgive us our debts as we forgive our debters" this is a part of the golden rule. If we break the golden rule, and we want forgiveness, but wer not willing to forgive others there selfishness, then should God forgive us?

"And lead us not into temptation" this is saying dont put yourself in the position or situation that will cause you to be tempted. Dont try to fight temptation. Remove oneself from it.

"But deliver us from evil" and he does that by our focus on him, not on fighting temptation.

"For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever" the whole universe is his kingdom. We give him credit. We dont credit "nothing" or "chance".

 

[Deeje]

If God's name is "hollowed", one might think about the 3rd commandment, and not take it in vane. Now if one believes they are "released" from that "Law" (Romans 7:6), then they would be among the "deceived" (Revelation 13:14), and feel that they can take the name of God in vain to their own detriment.

OK, let's examine that.....How does one sanctify a name that they never use? Why did the Jews stop using God's name? Where did they get the notion that is was somehow too sacred to be uttered? Do we have any of the Bible writers indicating such a thing when they used the divine name almost 7,000 times in the Hebrew scriptures?

The law said not to "take God's name in vain".....what did that mean? Did it mean not to ever say it in case you did?
The Jews were not a very good example of the need to sanctify God's name because their conduct often brought reproach on the God they served.
They were want to make frivolous oaths in God's name and then not honoring them, thus taking God's name in vain...using it in a worthless way. Rather than to stop using God's name in such an inappropriate way, they just refrained from using it altogether, thus they thought that they were safe from breaking that law. That's how we came to lose its correct pronunciation. But Jesus said he had come to "make God's name known to his disciples. (John 17:6; 26)

As for the kingdom of heaven at hand, it is at hand now, and consist of doing God's will, and retaining His power and Spirit, and requires doing God's will in the here and now.

The Kingdom has been "at hand" all along.... something that is within the reach of all of us.....as soon as a person becomes a disciple of Jesus Christ, he has entered a doorway to the Kingdom, and the promises that go with Christ's rulership are assured as long as one does not stray from the path.

The "kingdom" to come, is a the door (Matthew 24:33). God feeds' and clothes those who have found "His kingdom" at hand, and "His righteousness". Others, those among the walking dead, will need to keep their 9 to 6 job, or marry someone who has an income, or suck on the tit of the beast. If one hasn't learned how to do the will of God, they are in for a hairy ride.

Jesus said..... “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:43-48 NASB)

God does not withhold good even from the wicked. People need to be informed about their spiritual condition and helped to see that there is hope in what God promises for the future. No human can deliver what God has pledged to give. He doesn't bully people into submission....and neither should we.

We are in the world but not part of it....that is what it means to be a disciple of Christ.

 

[Deeje]

The path to "life" is not "cramped", it is simply "narrow", as in that one must "keep the commandments" to walk on it (Matthew 19:17), and "few" walk on that path. As for "God's plan", Joel 3 gives a good synopsis. You get the valley of judgment, where the nations are judged, and then you get "Jerusalem will be holy", and the "mountains will drip with sweet wine, and the hills will flow with milk", and the "brooks of Judah will flow with water".

You see, when you go off on these sorts of tangents, people turn off. You have lost them by your condemnation without explaining why they are condemned.

What does any of that mean to the average person? It is just religious mumbo-jumbo.

Jesus said that the road to life is accessed by a narrow gate, and that the way after entry is cramped, meaning that there is not a lot of room to move.
We do need to keep to the teachings of Jesus if we want to stay on that road and qualify for everlasting life....but unless you find the gate, you are not on the right road to begin with.

The broad road doesn't have a gate because everyone else is on it......the fact that the gate is narrow, means that it could be easy to miss if we are on a multi-lane highway traveling at speed. But we have to find the exit ramp, or our destination will not be the one we seek. (Matthew 7:13-14)

 

[Deeje]

Thank you for your contribution.

I think the "our father prayer" is a good summary of the entire bible.

This was Jesus teaching us how to pray. So many people today are not taught how to have a conversation with God. They have prayer books and rosary beads and ritual repetitions in church, but is that what we need to talk to God? Is that what Jesus taught us by means of this prayer?

"OUR father." Meaning God is the source of everyone and everything.

Yes...Jesus didn't say MY Father, but OUR Father.....that makes us all one family. But like all families, there are those who don't want to follow the rules. There are consequences for such ones.

"Who is in heaven" this dont mean hes not on earth, it just means God fills all space and matter and transcends it.

Actually the Bible gives heaven as the dwelling place of God, (1 Kings 8:30) so the belief that he is 'omnipresent' is not supported in the Bible. His other quality, "Omniscience" means "all knowing", but just because he knows what is going on everywhere, doesn't mean that he has to be everywhere.

"Hollowed be your name", this means God is just, loving, merciful all combined. It also means we respect him.

If you "hallow" something, you make it sacred....sanctified.....holy. God has a name. It is the only name that he gave to identify himself to his people.

Psalm 83:18 (KJV) ...." That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth."

"Jehovah" is the English translation of the Hebrew YHWH, the pronunciation of which was lost by the Jews' decision to stop saying it.

It has been transliterated using "Yahweh" as something close to the original name. All that aside, Jesus said he had come to make God's name known to his disciples, (John 17:6; 26) so obviously when he prayed the model prayer, God's name was of the utmost importance, since his name was tied up with his Godship and reputation. It was the first thing Jesus mentioned.

"Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as its done in heaven" this means wer asking for what goes on in the angelic realm of heaven, where everyone obeys the golden rule, that this come on earth. This would make heaven on earth. Utopia.

It means that we long to see God's will being done on earth as it is in heaven, just as Jesus did. His sacrifice was going to bring that about.

But we see in the beginning that things were not always good in heaven. Satan was a rebellious angel who managed to take a third of the other angels into rebellion with him. As free willed creatures like us they had that choice. But Jesus knew what his mission would accomplish.....heaven would be cleaned up first, when satan and his hordes would be evicted (Revelation 12:7-12) and then God would clean up the earth, resulting in a "new earth" ruled by a "new heavens". (2 Peter 3:13) Only then would God's will be done in both realms. (Ephesians 1:8-10)

"Give us this day our daily bread" means food, work, shelter, our basic needs.

Yes, bread was a staple. Not exactly something to hold a banquet with, but it meant a sustainable life, not necessarily with any luxuries. It was basic needs.

"And forgive us our debts as we forgive our debters" this is a part of the golden rule. If we break the golden rule, and we want forgiveness, but wer not willing to forgive others there selfishness, then should God forgive us?

This is very important because God's forgiveness of us rests solely on our ability to forgive others. We will reap what we sow. Golden rule.

"And lead us not into temptation" this is saying dont put yourself in the position or situation that will cause you to be tempted. Dont try to fight temptation. Remove oneself from it.

The devil had the audacity to tempt the perfect son of God, which would have been three sinless notches on his belt......the fact that Jesus was 100% human meant that Adam could have withstood the temptation given to him too. So if we think that the devil cannot overreach us as imperfect and sinful, then we are kidding ourselves....so yes, the best way to resist temptation is to stay right out of harm's way.

"But deliver us from evil" and he does that by our focus on him, not on fighting temptation.

There is a chain reaction that James beings to our attention....

" Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death." (James 1:13-15 NASB)

Every action begins with our thoughts.....this is saying to identify what the first step in that chain is, and stop it right there. God will not bring the temptation, but neither will he prevent them. It is up to us to resist them by nipping things in the bud.

"For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever" the whole universe is his kingdom. We give him credit. We dont credit "nothing" or "chance".

This is actually not part of the Lord's Prayer...it was a later addition only used by Protestants.

But we certainly give God the glory and honor he deserves.

 

[Jollybear]

Thank you for your contribution.



This was Jesus teaching us how to pray. So many people today are not taught how to have a conversation with God. They have prayer books and rosary beads and ritual repetitions in church, but is that what we need to talk to God? Is that what Jesus taught us by means of this prayer?



Yes...Jesus didn't say MY Father, but OUR Father.....that makes us all one family. But like all families, there are those who don't want to follow the rules. There are consequences for such ones.



Actually the Bible gives heaven as the dwelling place of God, (1 Kings 8:30) so the belief that he is 'omnipresent' is not supported in the Bible. His other quality, "Omniscience" means "all knowing", but just because he knows what is going on everywhere, doesn't mean that he has to be everywhere.



If you "hallow" something, you make it sacred....sanctified.....holy. God has a name. It is the only name that he gave to identify himself to his people.

Psalm 83:18 (KJV) ...." That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth."

"Jehovah" is the English translation of the Hebrew YHWH, the pronunciation of which was lost by the Jews' decision to stop saying it.

It has been transliterated using "Yahweh" as something close to the original name. All that aside, Jesus said he had come to make God's name known to his disciples, (John 17:6; 26) so obviously when he prayed the model prayer, God's name was of the utmost importance, since his name was tied up with his Godship and reputation. It was the first thing Jesus mentioned.



It means that we long to see God's will being done on earth as it is in heaven, just as Jesus did. His sacrifice was going to bring that about.

But we see in the beginning that hings were not always good in heaven. Satan was a rebellious angel who managed to take a third of the other angels into rebellion with him. As free willed creatures like us they had that choice. But Jesus knew what his mission would accomplish.....heaven would be cleaned up first, when satan and his hordes would be evicted (Revelation 12:7-12) and then God would clean up the earth, resulting in a "new earth" ruled by a "new heavens". (2 Peter 3:13) Only then would God's will be done in both realms. (Ephesians 1:8-10)



Yes, bread was a staple. Not exactly something to hold a banquet with, but it meant a sustainable life, not necessarily with any luxuries. It was basic needs.



This is very important because God's forgiveness of us rests solely on our ability to forgive others. We will reap what we sow. Golden rule.



The devil had the audacity to tempt the perfect son of God, which would have been three sinless notches on his belt......the fact that Jesus was 100% human meant that Adam could have withstood the temptation given to him too. So if we think that the devil cannot overreach us as imperfect and sinful, then we are kidding ourselves....so yes, the best way to resist temptation is to stay right out of harm's way.



There is a chain reaction that James beings to our attention....

" Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death." (James 1:13-15 NASB)

Every action begins with our thoughts.....this is saying to identify what the first step in that chain is, and stop it right there. God will not bring the temptation, but neither will he prevent them. It is up to us to resist them by nipping things in the bud.



This is actually not part of the Lord's Prayer...it was a later addition only used by Protestants.

But we certainly give God the glory and honor he deserves.

I agree with everything you said. The only thing i dont, is the omnipresent part. Is God transcend space? Is he infinite or finite?

 

[loverofhumanity]

As a child I never really knew the enormous significance of this prayer.

In my humble opinion, it is a prayer asking that God establish a godly kingdom on earth that is founded on His Will which is love for all.

I believe the Father being addressed here is a reference to Christ returning in the glory of the Father Whom I understand to be Baha’u’llah Who brought a new system of governance which we believe is the Kingdom of God with the Universal House of Justice as it’s head based on God’d Laws not mans.

This new kingdom is established on the slopes of mount Carmel which is an extremely significant place in Biblical prophesy. It says in the Bible that God shall feed His flock from the midst of Carmel which I believe is another clear reference to the Universal House of Justice.

These are just my own personal beliefs as a Baha’i from my own research.

 

[Deeje]

I agree with everything you said. The only thing i dont, is the omnipresent part. Is God transcend space? Is he infinite or finite?

Where will I find God's omnipresence in the Bible though? God is a spirit, but that is all we know of his form. We know "who" he is because the Bible tells us so much about him, but "what" God is, we have no idea. He is said to be surrounded by other spirit beings who all seem to have a body, albeit an invisible one. They are only seen in visions, sometimes with wings, sometimes they materialize human form. I doubt they need actual wings to fly though. The wings may have only been to convey flight to a people who only saw birds do that.

God is seen in visions as sitting on a throne, but is it a real throne or the spiritual equivalent? In the book of Ezekiel, God is seen on some sort of celestial vehicle that Ezekiel was having a lot of difficulty describing in human terms. It was moving at the command of God's spirit. (Ezekiel ch 1)

However you picture it...it must have been awe inspiring.

We have so much more to learn about this God and I believe that he will give us forever to learn it. Once we are done with sin, our minds will be able to develop more in keeping with the perfect creatures God designed us to be.

 

[Thief]

So many church goers pray the Lord's Prayer (The Our Father) rountinely in their church service, but how many actually understand what the words mean?

Matthew 6:7-13

7 “And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

9 “Pray, then, in this way:

‘Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10 ‘Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. 11 ‘Give us this day our daily bread. 12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [ For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’ ] (NASB)

For those who were raised in Protestant churches, the closing words in brackets are not part of the original Prayer, but were added later. Some might be surprised about that.

So....what does the Lord's Prayer mean, and did Jesus actually tell us to repeat that prayer?
What was he telling us to pray for? Is the order of our requests important?

let me point out two items overlooked in congregation......

first.....the followers of the Carpenter waited to the last possible moment to ask......
Teach us to pray

second.....and MORE important
when you recite the Lord's Prayer you are declaring yourself as a child of God

Our Father........?

your Father?
my Father?

brothers are we?

heaven hears when you say this
so to the devil behind you

 

[Thief]

Being a Gentile, meaningless repetition is what I do.

and it is written somewhere......
Do not pray in repetition as do the heathens
they only believe their many words are heard

 

[2ndpillar]

Jesus said that the road to life is accessed by a narrow gate, and that the way after entry is cramped, meaning that there is not a lot of room to move.

It would be nice if you would let me know what bible you are quoting from. My NASB says "narrow", and I couldn't find any that say cramped. A "narrow" "way" with "few" on it, would not be considered "cramped". On the other hand, a "broad way" would have space for 38,000 different sects. (Matthew 7:13)

New American Standard Bible Matthew 7:14
"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

[2ndpillar]

Do we have any of the Bible writers indicating such a thing when they used the divine nake almost 7,000 times in the Hebrew scriptures?

The "bible writers", the prophets, were anointed by God, and spoke for God. How does God take his own name in vain?

 

[Deeje]

As a child I never really knew the enormous significance of this prayer.

Me either. I prayed this prayer in Sunday School and in church but I never had a clue what it was that I was praying for.

In my humble opinion, it is a prayer asking that God establish a godly kingdom on earth that is founded on His Will which is love for all.

It is actually the completion of his purpose in putting mankind on this earth in the first place. It is only by means of this Kingdom that God's will can be "done on earth as it is in heaven".

I believe the Father being addressed here is a reference to Christ returning in the glory of the Father Whom I understand to be Baha’u’llah Who brought a new system of governance which we believe is the Kingdom of God with the Universal House of Justice as it’s head based on God’d Laws not mans.

I find that hard to correlate with the blessing that the Kingdom was going to bring to this earth. In the Revelation, the apostle John saw Christ with his "bride" bringing the blessings of the Kingdom to mankind like a tent spread over them. Being invited into one's tent in Bible times was to provide for those guests and to protect them.

He said...."I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:2-4)

The rulership of the Kingdom was to bring about freedom from fear, sorrow, mourning, pain and death. How do Baha'i's see this as fulfilled in Baha’u’llah? Did the world change significantly with the presence of this man? Hardly anyone knows anything about him. Yet the return of Christ was to affect the whole world.
When Christ was to come again, it was as a victorious King, ridding the earth of his enemies and establishing his Kingdom over this earth. In the Revelation, Christ's rule over the earth begins with binding and abyssing of the devil and his hordes, ridding the world of their evil influence (John 5:19; Revelation 12:7-12; 1) This has not yet happened.

This new kingdom is established on the slopes of mount Carmel which is an extremely significant place in Biblical prophesy. It says in the Bible that God shall feed His flock from the midst of Carmel which I believe is another clear reference to the Universal House of Justice.

Perhaps to Baha'i it means that, but not to JW's as Christians. Mt Carmel was the location of the decisive test of the Baal prophets and Elijah. But I see no real significance in the scriptures for this mountain. Perhaps you can site the scripture you had in mind?

These are just my own personal beliefs as a Baha’i from my own research.

Thank you for your contribution. It is good to get all these thoughts.

 

[Thief]

I was informed in early school years.....what each line meant and the expectations that follow

the prayer is then ......a hook

it goes in your ear......out of your mouth

you will never be allowed a plea of ignorance
you have been told

having made recital......your performance is expected

 

[Thief]

and He said.......I shall make you fishers of men

now you know

 

[Deeje]

It would be nice if you would let me know what bible you are quoting from. My NASB says "narrow", and I couldn't find any that say cramped. A "narrow" "way" with "few" on it, would not be considered "cramped". On the other hand, a "broad way" would have space for 38,000 different sects. (Matthew 7:13)

New American Standard Bible Matthew 7:14
"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Are you the kind of person who just sticks to one Bible translation? Better to check out others to see how they are rendered. It broadens you view somewhat.

Perhaps the Greek interlinear will help...

13 “ Enter eiserchomai through dia the ho narrow stenos gate pylē. For hoti wide platys is the ho gate pylē and kai easy eurychōros the ho way hodos that ho leads apagō to eis · ho destruction apōleia, and kai many polys are eimi those ho who enter eiserchomai through dia it autos. 14 How tis narrow stenos is the ho gate pylē and kai difficult thlibō the ho way hodos that ho leads apagō to eis · ho life zōē, and kai few oligos are eimi those ho who find heuriskō it autos!


Holman.....13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it. 14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it."

ESV.....13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."

ISV.....13 “Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the road is spacious that leads to destruction, and many people are entering by it. 14 How narrow is the gate and how constricted is the road that leads to life, and there aren’t many people who find it!”


CSB..."13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it. 14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it."

How many other versions would you like?

What about Strongs?

““Enter G1525 through G1223 the narrow G4728 gate; G4439 for the gate G4439 is wide G4116 and the way G3598 is broad G2149 that leads G520 to destruction, G684 and there G1510 are many G4183 who enter G1525 through G1223 it. For the gate G4439 is small G4728 and the way G3598 is narrow G2346 that leads G520 to life, G2222 and there G1510 are few G3641 who find G2147 it."

It means to be hard pressed or afflicted....

Matthew 7:13 (NASB)

 

[Deeje]

The "bible writers", the prophets, were anointed by God, and spoke for God. How does God take his own name in vain?

What?

The Bible writers used God's name freely and frequently. King David in the Psalms addressed his God by name many times, so did God ever command that his name not be uttered? Show me where? If it was customary to read the scriptures in their synagogues, why would God not want his name to be heard in his own House of Worship.

Exodus 3:15
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.

טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר: (Complete Tanach)

Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 3 (Parshah Shemot)

You can see that in English the divine name is missing, substituted with a title "The Lord God"....but in the Hebrew you can see the divine name written in the text. This was to be God's name "forever"....how God was to be mentioned in every generation. What happened to that?

Taking God's name in vain was treating it with disrespect. Something the faithful ones of old never did. Removing God's name from their speech did not remove the disrespect that the Jews gave to their God by their serial disobedience and repeated excursions into false worship. Need I say more?

 

[Deeje]

let me point out two items overlooked in congregation......

May I point out just a couple of things here...?

first.....the followers of the Carpenter waited to the last possible moment to ask......
Teach us to pray

First of all Jesus had quit being a Carpenter before he underwent baptism for his new role as Messiah.
He was not known as "The Carpenter" but as "the Carpenter's son". Just FYI.

Secondly, the Sermon on the Mount (of which the Lord's Prayer is a part) was given quite early in Jesus' ministry.

second.....and MORE important
when you recite the Lord's Prayer you are declaring yourself as a child of God

Our Father........?

your Father?
my Father?

brothers are we?

heaven hears when you say this
so to the devil behind you

I have to agree here if I understand you correctly. Jesus was teaching his disciples to pray, and by extension, all of his disciples to come.

Does that mean then that all who utter that prayer are automatically included in Christ's family? Jesus answers that question.....

Matthew 7:21-23 answers....“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

So not everyone who acknowledges Jesus as their "Lord" will be accepted. "Many" claim to have all these things that they did "in his name" to prove their discipleship....but Jesus does not accept them. He said only those "doing the will of his Father" would be accepted as his true disciples. That means that "many" will be rejected as "goats" who thought they were "sheep". When he says "I never knew you"...."never" means "not ever".

Food for thought.