the lunar tetrad (or 4 blood moons)

[John 5:46]

A very interesting thing will begin to appear in the heavens next month. It’s known as a lunar tetrad, where a series of 4 total lunar eclipses occur exactly 6 months (6 full moons) apart. In simple terms, the earth will see a total eclipse of the moon every 6 months for the next 2 years. What’s more, each lunar eclipse will occur on the 1st day of Unleavened Bread (Passover for those who follow Judaism) and on the 1st day of Sukkot (Tabernacles) for 2014 and 2015. (April 15, Oct 10, April 4 & Sept 28, respectively.)

Even more interesting, the last 2 lunar tetrads marked the fulfillment of 2 key Biblical prophecies. One lunar tetrad occurred during the years of 1949-50, right after our brother Judah returned to the Land and re-established the nation of Israel after nearly 2,000 yrs in dispersion.

Another lunar tetrad occurred in the years 1967-68 during which the 6-Day War brought Jerusalem under the control of Judah for the 1st time in almost 2,000 yrs.

A pattern seems to be emerging within this (our) generation. In 1948 we got the Land, in 1967 we got the Holy City. Now, is it possible that sometime during this coming lunar tetrad we finally get possession of the Temple Mount AND see the Altar of the Lord re-established?

While at the time of this post, there isn't enough evidence to prove that this year or even next year will be the start of the Great Tribulation, but these heavenly signs cannot be dismissed as coincidence either. Passover/Unleavened Bread holds a very powerful element in what the Jewish people call the "Final Redemption" and what many Messianics know as the "Greater Exodus." A future Passover is prophesied to be the start for a future escape for the saints in the days of the Great Tribulation. Sukkot (the Feast of Tabernacles) also teaches how the Tribulation saints will leave their homes to escape, survive and endure, living in temporary dwellings, just as our fathers did on their journey from Egypt to the Promised Land.

Watching..... waiting..... preparing.......

 

[anotherglenda]

Hi John 5:46, thank you for the interesting information about the coming eclipses. I had no idea. Will be interesting to see what they indicate.

Just wondering why you equate lunar eclipses to blood moons? (simply because during severe bushfires here, the smoke can cause the day to be black and the night to have a blood red moon ... quite disturbing to view ... and NT seems to discuss similar unpleasant phenomenon: ACTS 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: REV 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

NT seems to indicate that the 1st wipe-out was by flood but the next will be by fire 2PET 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
If the earth shakes before the sky burns, sounds possibly like a nuclear holocaust rather than bushfires or eclipses maybe?

 

[John 5:46]

Just wondering why you equate lunar eclipses to blood moons? (simply because during severe bushfires here, the smoke can cause the day to be black and the night to have a blood red moon…

Good morning anotherglenda. I kinda thought it was strange, too!
A true Blood Moon (or Hunter Moon) occurs every year after the Harvest Moon. Why they decided to call them all “Blood” moons is beyond me. Maybe they thought it would get people's attention... I know it got mine! And yours! So I figured if that's what they want to call it, fine. And who knows? It might be like you say – there’ll be lots of smoke or something making the moon appear red? I just don’t know. We'll have to wait and see!

…... quite disturbing to view... and NT seems to discuss similar unpleasant phenomenon: ACTS 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: REV 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Yes, we’ll see truly wondrous signs in the heavens. Most of the world will be terrified, but WE must be strong and courageous, trusting and believing that our King will continue to be faithful to His word – in that He will deliver us with a strong hand and an outstretched arm with signs and great wonders. That He will make a distinction between us and the world, just as He did with our fathers in Egypt. Only this time, we’re supposed to learn from the mistakes our forefathers made. And instead of only 2 making it to the Promised Land from the generation that left Egypt the 1st time (Joshua and Caleb), many will walk into the Kingdom this 2nd time as one nation with one voice! This is so exciting, I’m literally BURSTING at the seams! All the prophets including Abraham longed to see what we might soon get to see!

2PET 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

If the earth shakes before the sky burns, sounds possibly like a nuclear holocaust rather than bushfires or eclipses maybe?

(Not sure why your quote was broken up into 2??? but anyway....) It’ll be far greater than just a nuclear holocaust. This event in 2 Pete 3:12-13 ties in with Isaiah 65:17 and Revelation 21:1 I hope you'll take the time to read all of Isaiah 65 and 66 but notice these verses in particular:

Isaiah 65:17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.”

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

These Scriptures, along with the detailed account of what "Kingdom Life" will be like as detailed in Ezekiel chapters 40-48, suggests that it occurs sometime after the 1,000-yr reign. But since even the angels don’t know when this happens, it stands to reason that we (created lower than them) won’t know either.

 

[anotherglenda]

Good morning anotherglenda. I kinda thought it was strange, too!
A true Blood Moon (or Hunter Moon) occurs every year after the Harvest Moon. Why they decided to call them all “Blood” moons is beyond me. Maybe they thought it would get people's attention... I know it got mine! And yours! So I figured if that's what they want to call it, fine. And who knows? It might be like you say – there’ll be lots of smoke or something making the moon appear red? I just don’t know. We'll have to wait and see!

Good morning John 5:46
Thank you for enlightening me further. Aus doesn't always have identical terminology to other English-speaking nations, so I learn new things even by hearing/reading different terms & I appreciate learning new things thank you.

I had never heard of a Hunter or Harvest moon, so your comments induced me to look them up & I found these terms and also found they are more modern than scripture, so I suspect they aren't what the bible refers to regarding blood moons? I found a picture of a northern hemisphere 'blood moon' & appreciated the reddish appearance, but if you see a bushfire moon, you'll see the difference in it being deep blood red which is truly discomforting to view in real life (because you know it indicates great destruction and living things suffering horror & burning) eg at this link: BushFire Moon

A few years back, 1/3 of Victoria was burning at the same time & all you could do was cry when you saw the moon ... people & animals died horrifically and even animals which didn't burn to death were hopefully humanely killed asap. Stock which walk on super-heated burned earth suffer from their hooves melting so they hobble on raw bones & forest animals were charred but still alive etc. Totally heart-breaking. When plants and surface earth burn in extreme bushfires, you end up with pink dust which doesn't support life. (less extreme fires actually rejuvenate native plant life which relies on fires to germinate hard seeds)

Yes, we’ll see truly wondrous signs in the heavens. Most of the world will be terrified, but WE must be strong and courageous, trusting and believing that our King will continue to be faithful to His word – in that He will deliver us with a strong hand and an outstretched arm with signs and great wonders.

I feel great & dreadful concern because, with a passion, I absolutely HATE suffering. I HATE seeing the suffering of the world. It breaks my heart daily. God created this world & we all came from Adam & Eve so we are related to everyone & their weaknesses & suffering are ours. MAL 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? ...

I absolutely HATE seeing the unacceptable acts & effects of violence, abuse, racism, sexism, disdain, selfishness, tyranny, materialism, greed etc. The world is a worsening mess & it's heart-breaking. I wish the evil would stop & my only joy is that God promises that one day in His timing the peaceable meek & humble will inherit the earth. I may not live to see it, but I know it will happen because God says so & God is Truth.

Despite hating evil, I don't wish evil beings to suffer because I HATE needless suffering ... I simply wish they would disappear from the face of the earth or die quickly & as painlessly as possible. eg a previous neighbour's pit bull terrorized the neighbourhood (me especially as it came on my property daily) & I wanted it dead eg shot or painless fatal medication ... but a couple of weeks ago the owners tied it on a rope near a vine which it subsequently got caught in & slowly choked to death & I was truly incredibly sorry for it because it couldn't help being a vicious creature & nothing beneficial was achieved for it or anyone by its needless slow suffering.

That He will make a distinction between us and the world, just as He did with our fathers in Egypt. Only this time, we’re supposed to learn from the mistakes our forefathers made.

Agreed. For God to make a distinction this time, we need to be distinct on a personal level too & not be like Egypt/the world. We need to be lights in the darkness as instructed by God through Jesus.

And instead of only 2 making it to the Promised Land from the generation that left Egypt the 1st time (Joshua and Caleb), many will walk into the Kingdom this 2nd time as one nation with one voice! This is so exciting, I’m literally BURSTING at the seams! All the prophets including Abraham longed to see what we might soon get to see!

It certainly will be wonderful when the peaceable meek survive & follow & praise the One God in unity. I'm aging so may not get to see it, but knowing it will happen is enough for my joy and gratitude to God.

It’ll be far greater than just a nuclear holocaust. This event in 2 Pete 3:12-13 ties in with Isaiah 65:17 and Revelation 21:1 I hope you'll take the time to read all of Isaiah 65 and 66 but notice these verses in particular:

Isaiah 65:17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.”

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

These Scriptures, along with the detailed account of what "Kingdom Life" will be like as detailed in Ezekiel chapters 40-48, suggests that it occurs sometime after the 1,000-yr reign. But since even the angels don’t know when this happens, it stands to reason that we (created lower than them) won’t know either.

Thank you for this & I just re-read Isaiah 65 and 66 as you suggested and it was a blessing thank you ... I love this: Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Isa 11 is worth reading too for similar joy, also Isa 2:2-4 & Mic 4:1-4

Oh how good when there will be peace & no more harm to living beings or the earth ... not even any more Exxon Valdez-type disasters etc.

In the interim I'm hugely grateful that while I yet live that just this past week God has enabled my escape to a more peaceable residence on the outskirts of a different rural town. I wake to cows mooing & birds singing rather than neighbours arguing. May God be hugely praised

blessings John 5:46

 

[Patience]

A very interesting thing will begin to appear in the heavens next month. It’s known as a lunar tetrad, where a series of 4 total lunar eclipses occur exactly 6 months (6 full moons) apart. In simple terms, the earth will see a total eclipse of the moon every 6 months for the next 2 years. What’s more, each lunar eclipse will occur on the 1st day of Unleavened Bread (Passover for those who follow Judaism) and on the 1st day of Sukkot (Tabernacles) for 2014 and 2015. (April 15, Oct 10, April 4 & Sept 28, respectively.)

Even more interesting, the last 2 lunar tetrads marked the fulfillment of 2 key Biblical prophecies. One lunar tetrad occurred during the years of 1949-50, right after our brother Judah returned to the Land and re-established the nation of Israel after nearly 2,000 yrs in dispersion.

Another lunar tetrad occurred in the years 1967-68 during which the 6-Day War brought Jerusalem under the control of Judah for the 1st time in almost 2,000 yrs.

A pattern seems to be emerging within this (our) generation. In 1948 we got the Land, in 1967 we got the Holy City. Now, is it possible that sometime during this coming lunar tetrad we finally get possession of the Temple Mount AND see the Altar of the Lord re-established?

While at the time of this post, there isn't enough evidence to prove that this year or even next year will be the start of the Great Tribulation, but these heavenly signs cannot be dismissed as coincidence either. Passover/Unleavened Bread holds a very powerful element in what the Jewish people call the "Final Redemption" and what many Messianics know as the "Greater Exodus." A future Passover is prophesied to be the start for a future escape for the saints in the days of the Great Tribulation. Sukkot (the Feast of Tabernacles) also teaches how the Tribulation saints will leave their homes to escape, survive and endure, living in temporary dwellings, just as our fathers did on their journey from Egypt to the Promised Land.

Watching..... waiting..... preparing.......

I keep hearing about this and I find it very fascinating. I really need to start researching this more as well as biblical prophesies, it is very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[John 5:46]

Aus doesn't always have identical terminology to other English-speaking nations, so I learn new things even by hearing/reading different terms & I appreciate learning new things thank you.

Is "Aus" short for Austria or Australia? It's truly amazing how the pronounciation and meaning of words can change so dramatically from one region to the next. Even more so from one continent to the next!

I had never heard of a Hunter or Harvest moon, so your comments induced me to look them up & I found these terms and also found they are more modern than scripture, so I suspect they aren't what the bible refers to regarding blood moons?

Several years ago I read an in-depth study on the star constellations and how their original Hebrew names and meanings tell the complete redemptive plan of God… truly “written in the stars.” Of course, these meanings have long since been profaned with pagan mythologies. I know that each full moon of the year has a name, (ie Hunter’s, Harvest and Blood) but just like the constellations have been profaned, it isn’t a great stretch for me to assume that the names and meanings of the moons have also been profaned. I sure wish I had the time to dive into this study… but I just don’t. Maybe if the fancy strikes you, you can study on this…. But you HAVE to tell me what you discover!!!! :yes:

I feel great & dreadful concern because, with a passion, I absolutely HATE suffering. I HATE seeing the suffering of the world. It breaks my heart daily.

There isn’t one decent person who likes to see suffering. But suffering isn’t the problem, but rather suffering is a curse brought about by sin. Instead of hating the curse (which is a physical manifestation of spiritual depravity) hate what caused the suffering to begin with! Ps 97:10 “You who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the souls of His saints; He delivers them out of the hand of the wicked.

God created this world & we all came from Adam & Eve so we are related to everyone & their weaknesses & suffering are ours. MAL 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? ...

I understand where you’re going with this statement but that isn’t what Mal 2:10 is saying. Verse 1 of this chapter identifies who Malachi is admonishing: the Levites (the sons of Aaron, the priests.) He’s telling them in verse 8 the exact same thing Yeshua (Jesus) told them in Mark 7:7-8.

Also, Malachi is referring to our “father” Abraham, not Adam. (In fact, Scripture never identifies Adam as our father.) But this can easily be taken out of its context when one dismisses the 2nd half of Mal 2:10 which continues with “…Why do we deal treacherously with one another By profaning the covenant of the fathers?
The Covenant he's talking about here is the one in which our forefathers became betrothed to the Lord by saying, "All that the Lord has said we will do!" (see Ex 19:8 and Ex 24:7) This is better known as the Marriage Covenant detailed for us beginning in Ex 19 where God and the people exchanged their vows at Mount Sinai.

Despite hating evil, I don't wish evil beings to suffer because I HATE needless suffering ... I simply wish they would disappear from the face of the earth or die quickly & as painlessly as possible.

I guess I look at things a bit differently. I am in such awe of my King to know that He loved me so much that He humbled Himself and willingly suffered a horrible death on the cross… for me! He loves me so much that He shed His precious blood for me that not only covered my willful/defiant sin, but also opened the door to allow me to enter into His everlasting Covenants, grafting me into the tribes of His sheep and adopting me into His family. And all I had to do was accept His gift. I was lost, defiled and deserving of everlasting fire. But He plucked me out of that darkness and set me in His perfect light. I have been purified (cleansed) and sanctified (set apart) by His Blood of the Covenant and now I walk in the Torah (Instruction) of my God, so that I may be an acceptable living sacrifice unto Him. (Rom 12:1)

So when I see the wicked delighting themselves in cursing and blaspheming not only the name of my King but also His Blood that was shed for me, yes it breaks my heart! I’ve cried for them until there’s no tears left in my eyes! And when the tears are gone I get angry because they act in contempt and defiance toward my Rock, my Redeemer, my Life and my God. They abuse, neglect, act violently, are selfish, racist and sexist because they disdain and abhor my God.
Yet I take great comfort in knowing that God Himself will repay them, measure for measure. Their deeds shall not go unpunished. The Lord will avenge His name, His Blood, His Covenants and His people upon the heads of every single one of His enemies. Therefore, I will rejoice when my King triumphs over them as foretold in Zeph 3:14-15 Sing, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O Israel! Be glad and rejoice with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem! The Lord has taken away your judgments, He has cast out your enemy. The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst; You shall see disaster no more.

 

[John 5:46]

I keep hearing about this and I find it very fascinating. I really need to start researching this more as well as biblical prophesies, it is very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I'm glad this thread was helpful to you. Please share with us any info I missed... there's ALWAYS more to learn!

 

[anotherglenda]

Is "Aus" short for Austria or Australia? It's truly amazing how the pronounciation and meaning of words can change so dramatically from one region to the next. Even more so from one continent to the next!

Hi John 5:46, Aus is abbreviation for Australia. Yes it is amazing about different terminology eg 'ringer' here is a respected head sheep-shearer, yet I've learned 'ringer' in USA can mean con-artist. Totally different meanings

Several years ago I read an in-depth study on the star constellations and how their original Hebrew names and meanings tell the complete redemptive plan of God… truly “written in the stars.” Of course, these meanings have long since been profaned with pagan mythologies. I know that each full moon of the year has a name, (ie Hunter’s, Harvest and Blood) but just like the constellations have been profaned, it isn’t a great stretch for me to assume that the names and meanings of the moons have also been profaned. I sure wish I had the time to dive into this study… but I just don’t. Maybe if the fancy strikes you, you can study on this…. But you HAVE to tell me what you discover!!!! :yes:

Sadly I also lack time at present, but if I ever have the time I'd gladly study & share that topic

There isn’t one decent person who likes to see suffering. But suffering isn’t the problem, but rather suffering is a curse brought about by sin. Instead of hating the curse (which is a physical manifestation of spiritual depravity) hate what caused the suffering to begin with! Ps 97:10 “You who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the souls of His saints; He delivers them out of the hand of the wicked.

I do hate the evil which causes the suffering, as I said in my previous reply to you:

I absolutely HATE seeing the unacceptable acts & effects of violence, abuse, racism, sexism, disdain, selfishness, tyranny, materialism, greed etc. The world is a worsening mess & it's heart-breaking. I wish the evil would stop & my only joy is that God promises that one day in His timing the peaceable meek & humble will inherit the earth. I may not live to see it, but I know it will happen because God says so & God is Truth.

Despite hating evil, I don't wish evil beings to suffer because I HATE needless suffering ... I simply wish they would disappear from the face of the earth or die quickly & as painlessly as possible.

I understand where you’re going with this statement but that isn’t what Mal 2:10 is saying. Verse 1 of this chapter identifies who Malachi is admonishing: the Levites (the sons of Aaron, the priests.) He’s telling them in verse 8 the exact same thing Yeshua (Jesus) told them in Mark 7:7-8.

Also, Malachi is referring to our “father” Abraham, not Adam.

I accept your correction about Malachi admonishing the Levites.
However, the verse clearly specifies that God is being referred to as our Father/Creator ... just like Jesus referred to God as 'Father' and discussed Eden ... MK 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
Later the Malachi verse refers to multiple fathers (ie forefathers) regarding covenant ... but those forefathers aren't being referred to as the initial Creator/Father as per the start of the verse: Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

(In fact, Scripture never identifies Adam as our father.)

I suppose that depends on personal understanding since the geneology of Jesus traces back to Adam as an initial forefather:
LK 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

But this can easily be taken out of its context when one dismisses the 2nd half of Mal 2:10 which continues with “…Why do we deal treacherously with one another By profaning the covenant of the fathers?
The Covenant he's talking about here is the one in which our forefathers became betrothed to the Lord by saying, "All that the Lord has said we will do!" (see Ex 19:8 and Ex 24:7) This is better known as the Marriage Covenant detailed for us beginning in Ex 19 where God and the people exchanged their vows at Mount Sinai.

I have no problem with the covenant of the fathers, but this does not make those fathers the Creator/Father/God mentioned at the start of the verse. Surely people don't consider that those fathers performed creation?

I guess I look at things a bit differently. I am in such awe of my King to know that He loved me so much that He humbled Himself and willingly suffered a horrible death on the cross… for me! He loves me so much that He shed His precious blood for me that not only covered my willful/defiant sin, but also opened the door to allow me to enter into His everlasting Covenants, grafting me into the tribes of His sheep and adopting me into His family. And all I had to do was accept His gift. I was lost, defiled and deserving of everlasting fire. But He plucked me out of that darkness and set me in His perfect light. I have been purified (cleansed) and sanctified (set apart) by His Blood of the Covenant and now I walk in the Torah (Instruction) of my God, so that I may be an acceptable living sacrifice unto Him. (Rom 12:1)

So when I see the wicked delighting themselves in cursing and blaspheming not only the name of my King but also His Blood that was shed for me, yes it breaks my heart! I’ve cried for them until there’s no tears left in my eyes! And when the tears are gone I get angry because they act in contempt and defiance toward my Rock, my Redeemer, my Life and my God. They abuse, neglect, act violently, are selfish, racist and sexist because they disdain and abhor my God.
Yet I take great comfort in knowing that God Himself will repay them, measure for measure. Their deeds shall not go unpunished. The Lord will avenge His name, His Blood, His Covenants and His people upon the heads of every single one of His enemies. Therefore, I will rejoice when my King triumphs over them as foretold in Zeph 3:14-15 Sing, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O Israel! Be glad and rejoice with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem! The Lord has taken away your judgments, He has cast out your enemy. The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst; You shall see disaster no more.

I don't see that Zeph verse promoting any concept that God will be thrilled with harming wicked people. God actually says the exact opposite that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked.
EZEK 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Jesus says he finds it forgiveable if people blaspheme his name, so if Jesus is willing to forgive this, then why shouldn't you honour his words? Jesus also tells us to love our enemies and desiring their harm is not loving. Surely if we were once rebellious disobedient enemies of God and have been undeservedly patiently & mercifully considered & forgiven by Him then we can pass that merciful blessing on? God loves & values each person enough to create them & give them the breath of life, so how can we devalue what God values so highly? How can we be justified in desiring harm on another, which harm we deserve save for God's patient mercy? I wouldn't wish harm on my worst enemy ... in God's patience I want them to finally recognise & embrace truth/God & live. God is love. God sends rain on the just and the unjust. The teachings of Jesus don't promote desiring the harm of another human. The real enemy we are to hate is evil/wickedness ... including & especially our own ... not hate other humans. We will be judged as we judge others. We will be forgiven as we forgive others.

 

[John 5:46]

My granddaughter is visiting us until Sunday, so please understand and forgive my delay in responding until then....

Hi John 5:46, Aus is abbreviation for Australia. Yes it is amazing about different terminology eg 'ringer' here is a respected head sheep-shearer, yet I've learned 'ringer' in USA can mean con-artist.

Hmmmm. That must be a big city definition, cuz this country gal hasn’t heard that definition of a ringer before!

However, the verse clearly specifies that God is being referred to as our Father/Creator ... just like Jesus referred to God as 'Father' and discussed Eden ... MK 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

I see now the source of our differing opinions. You’re looking at Mal 2:10 as if it is asking one question in 2 different ways to which there is only one answer. I see 2 separate questions each with a different answer. By breaking it down into 2 separate and distinct questions with their corresponding answers actually strengthens the bond that unites the people because there is not just one common denominator between us, but multiple “ties that bind” us into one nation. And we as a nation cannot exist without one OR the other.
Question #1 - Have we not all one father? Yes. We all share the same patriarch (father) Abraham and we all look forward to the same heritage and the same promises God gave to him and his seed.
Question #2 - Has not one God created us? Yes. We were all created by the same God. So why do we treat one another so badly if we’re supposed to be so closely tied to each other?
(Something else to consider: Of the 5 different translations I use, only the NKJV capitalizes “father” in this verse.)

I suppose that depends on personal understanding since the geneology of Jesus traces back to Adam as an initial forefather:

LK 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Everyone’s genealogy traces back to Adam, yes. But our heritage of promise and our inheritance comes thru our father Abraham, the father of many nations. Yes, I am a descendant of Adam, but my father is Abraham.

I have no problem with the covenant of the fathers, but this does not make those fathers the Creator/Father/God mentioned at the start of the verse. Surely people don't consider that those fathers performed creation?

I hope I explained well enough that the answer to this question is no longer needed. But just in case… no it doesn’t make our fathers at Sinai “the Creator/Father/God.” It does however, make them the created nation as promised to our father Abraham.

I don't see that Zeph verse promoting any concept that God will be thrilled with harming wicked people. God actually says the exact opposite that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

EZEK 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

And when the wicked refuse to repent and turn from their evil ways, what then? He may not enjoy it, but He will do it. And when He does, He commands us to rejoice at their demise!
Deut 32:43 "Rejoice, O nations, with His people; For He will avenge the blood of His servants, And will render vengeance on His adversaries, And will atone for His land and His people."
Ps 58:9-10“Before your pots can feel the burning thorns, He shall take them (the wicked) away as with a whirlwind, As in His living and burning wrath. The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance; He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked,
Rev 18:19-20 "And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth , for in one hour she has been laid waste!' "Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced judgment for you against her."

We sang the Song of Moses at the Red Sea rejoicing over Pharaoh and his army (Ex 15) and the Tribulation Saints will ALSO sing the Song of Moses (Rev 15:3) rejoicing over the destruction of the future Pharaoh and his army.

Jesus says he finds it forgiveable if people blaspheme his name, so if Jesus is willing to forgive this, then why shouldn't you honour his words?

Forgiveness can only be attained by repentance. If one doesn’t repent for what they’ve done, there can be no forgiveness. Luke 17:3-4 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him."
Those upon whom He will render His vengeance upon will never repent. Because they won’t repent and turn from their wickedness, God will not forgive them. It is these we shall rejoice over when their destruction comes.

Jesus also tells us to love our enemies and desiring their harm is not loving.

You misunderstand me. I don’t desire anyone to be harmed. What I desire is for everyone to repent and to know and love my King. I pray every day for that to happen. But I know not everyone will submit to Him. And when that Day comes I will rejoice at the victory of my King over His enemies.

Surely if we were once rebellious disobedient enemies of God and have been undeservedly patiently & mercifully considered & forgiven by Him then we can pass that merciful blessing on?

And we certainly aren't any better than they are. But we have done something they have not: we confessed our wickedness to Him with our lips, we have asked for His forgiveness and then we changed our actions so as to become obedient to Him and His commandments. In other words, we repented. And now we are in Covenant with the Creator, covered by the Blood of the Lamb, and sealed by the Spirit. And we pass our blessing on to those around us by being an example (a light) to show our enemies that they can have the same blessings and hope that we do. And all they have to do is reach out and accept the same gift of salvation and deliverance that we have, submit to His authority, repent of their wickedness and walk in obedience... just like we do.

 

[anotherglenda]

My granddaughter is visiting us until Sunday, so please understand and forgive my delay in responding until then....

We have a blessing in common. One of my granddaughters is visiting me this weekend too

I see now the source of our differing opinions. You’re looking at Mal 2:10 as if it is asking one question in 2 different ways to which there is only one answer. I see 2 separate questions each with a different answer.

Thank you for clarifying that and yes you are right about me seeing it as 2 ways of asking same question, just like Jesus discussed Father and God in the same sentence JN 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
God as Father was understood JN 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

By breaking it down into 2 separate and distinct questions with their corresponding answers actually strengthens the bond that unites the people because there is not just one common denominator between us, but multiple “ties that bind” us into one nation. And we as a nation cannot exist without one OR the other.
Question #1 - Have we not all one father? Yes. We all share the same patriarch (father) Abraham and we all look forward to the same heritage and the same promises God gave to him and his seed.
Question #2 - Has not one God created us? Yes. We were all created by the same God. So why do we treat one another so badly if we’re supposed to be so closely tied to each other?
(Something else to consider: Of the 5 different translations I use, only the NKJV capitalizes “father” in this verse.)

Thank you for helping me understand where you are coming from.
I appreciate how you see things gives a double bond, however, there is no mention of Abraham in the verse, so assuming Abraham is being discussed is a very personal assumption.

Something else to seriously consider is that scripture was written in Hebrew which uses ALL capital letters ONLY and English translators pick & choose when to use upper or lower case letters which is why some translations use F eg CEV, ESV etc while others use f ... better if English scripture was also written in ALL capitals so there was less confusion ... except then English translators would have to find a different way to hide God's Name ... coz currently they use ALL capitals in the replacement word 'LORD' for 'YaHoVaH' and use lower case 'lord', sometimes with a capital 'L' to indicate Not-YaHoVaH.

Everyone’s genealogy traces back to Adam, yes. But our heritage of promise and our inheritance comes thru our father Abraham, the father of many nations. Yes, I am a descendant of Adam, but my father is Abraham.

Jesus said: MT 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
so my Father/father is God.

And when the wicked refuse to repent and turn from their evil ways, what then?

Jesus said of his unrepentant tormentors 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do' and we are to follow Jesus. Jesus didn't rejoice at pending vengeance yet Jesus didn't sin in not rejoicing. Joseph mercifully initially considered secretly putting away Mary rather than seek Mosaic justice, not because he was a rebellious anti-law sinner, but because he was a merciful righteous man. Mercy is greater than judgment. JAS 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

He may not enjoy it, but He will do it. And when He does, He commands us to rejoice at their demise!
Deut 32:43 ...
Ps 58:9-10 ...
...

I accept and respect that you prefer the option of rejoicing over vengeance. Jesus, Joseph & James were aware of God's commands yet they didn't rejoice at pending judgment but instead prioritized mercy and grieved at the pending judgment.

We sang the Song of Moses at the Red Sea rejoicing over Pharaoh and his army (Ex 15) and the Tribulation Saints will ALSO sing the Song of Moses (Rev 15:3) rejoicing over the destruction of the future Pharaoh and his army.

The 'future Pharaoh & his army' are current. Our huge enemies are personal sins which try to keep us in bondage & distant from God. That's what Jesus came to save us from. I certainly rejoice at such enemies being overcome! God hates sin rather than hate humans. God didn't hate Egyptians and commanded us not to hate them either
DEUT 23:7, IS 19:25
Laws on stone aren't as great as laws in soft hearts Jer 31:31-34

Forgiveness can only be attained by repentance.

The person suffering palsy didn't repent: MT 9:2, MT 9:5

Sometimes people sin in ignorance & they are still guilty, however a priest can atone for and gain forgiveness for them NUM 15:28, LK 23:34

If one doesn’t repent for what they’ve done, there can be no forgiveness. Luke 17:3-4

This discusses a normal Jewish concept of people sinning against each other & needing to seek remedy by apologising and rectifying wrongs, much like Jesus discussing the need to fix human relationship damage before assuming to have prayer relationship with God
Mat 5:23-24

Those upon whom He will render His vengeance upon will never repent. Because they won’t repent and turn from their wickedness, God will not forgive them. It is these we shall rejoice over when their destruction comes.

Some will rejoice, and like Jesus, some will grieve.

You misunderstand me. I don’t desire anyone to be harmed.

I certainly did misunderstand you because I assumed the snippet below from an earlier post indicated that you would 'take great comfort' in their punishment from God's vengeance, which in Aus indicates you enjoyed the concept of their demise since 'taking comfort' here means appreciation/enjoyment or does it mean something different there?:

Yet I take great comfort in knowing that God Himself will repay them, measure for measure. Their deeds shall not go unpunished. The Lord will avenge His name, His Blood, His Covenants and His people upon the heads of every single one of His enemies.

What I desire is for everyone to repent and to know and love my King. I pray every day for that to happen.

we agree as per snippet from my previous reply

I wouldn't wish harm on my worst enemy ... in God's patience I want them to finally recognise & embrace truth/God & live. God is love.

But I know not everyone will submit to Him. And when that Day comes I will rejoice at the victory of my King over His enemies.

I grieve at their detrimental current choices & will grieve if they persist making detrimental choices. No rejoicing over sad choices now or in future. We differ on whether to grieve or rejoice.

And we certainly aren't any better than they are. But we have done something they have not: we confessed our wickedness to Him with our lips, we have asked for His forgiveness and then we changed our actions so as to become obedient to Him and His commandments. In other words, we repented. And now we are in Covenant with the Creator, covered by the Blood of the Lamb, and sealed by the Spirit. And we pass our blessing on to those around us by being an example (a light) to show our enemies that they can have the same blessings and hope that we do. And all they have to do is reach out and accept the same gift of salvation and deliverance that we have, submit to His authority, repent of their wickedness and walk in obedience... just like we do.

It is right to repent & live obediently, but there is much more to being 'lights' & even/especially in difficult situations it involves humble merciful behaviour from soft hearts filled with empathy since we have been in their errant shoes:
MIC 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
MT 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
1JN 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[John 5:46]

Thank you for clarifying that and yes you are right about me seeing it as 2 ways of asking same question, just like Jesus discussed Father and God in the same sentence...

Jesus also said, “I and My Father are one," (Jn 10:30) which is a DEEP statement when viewed from a Hebrew perspective. Yes the NT says a lot about the Father/Son relationship of God, but Moses and the Prophets teach even more! Example: the Hebrew word for “stone” is “eben,” which is a contraction using the words “ab” (meaning "father" - as in AB-raham: "father of many nations") and “ben” (meaning “son” – as in BEN-jamin: SON of My Right Hand.”) Eben is Strong’s #68 and is used in the most interesting places. It's used in Deut 4:13, Ps 118:22, Isa 28:16 and in 100's of other places.

I appreciate how you see things gives a double bond, however, there is no mention of Abraham in the verse, so assuming Abraham is being discussed is a very personal assumption.

There is no need for Abraham’s name to be used here because it was written to Israel (Mal 1:1.) And they knew who they are, where they came from, and the covenant God made with their father, Abraham. So, there wasn’t a need for Malachi to specifically mention Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It’s no different for us Americans to talk about our “forefathers” without ever saying “George Washington” or “James Madison.” It’s assumed that we already know who they are.

Something else to seriously consider is that scripture was written in Hebrew which uses ALL capital letters ONLY and English translators pick & choose when to use upper or lower case letters….

You might be confusing the modern block Hebrew script with its earlier Paleo-Hebrew form which both are picture language. Neither of them has capital letters.

Jesus said: MT 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Yet the Apostles, filled with the Spirit of the Lord, still referred to Abraham as their father. (see Acts 3:13, 7:2 & 32, Rom 4:1 & 12, James 2:21) Instead, perhaps Jesus is merely continuing the context of the subject at hand… that the scribes and Pharisees were abusing their “office” by embellishing in the “perks” of honorable position and titles that they did not deserve?
Let's back up 8 verses to Mat 23:1-2 "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying:The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. The “seat of Moses” is a raised platform found in every synagogue (even today) where the 5 Books of Moses (Genesis-Deut) is read aloud to the people. While on this platform, the reader may only read the text; he may not give his own personal opinion.
V 3- “Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, (while in the Seat of Moses) that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. The scribes and Pharisees didn’t “practice what they preached” and Jesus called them hypocrites because they "preferred the traditions of men above the Law of God." They claimed Abraham as their father but Jesus replied, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham." (John 8:39) The works of Abraham are given in Gen 26:5 “…Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." Meaning Abraham observed the Law 400 yrs before it was given at Mt. Sinai.

Jesus said of his unrepentant tormentors 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do' and we are to follow Jesus.

His tormentors were ignorant of what they were doing, not unrepentant. Hence, “they know not what they do.”

I accept and respect that you prefer the option of rejoicing over vengeance.

Had I known this subject would spark such controversy between us, I would’ve kept my big mouth shut! Forgive me, but I just felt you were discouraged over the cruelty and wickedness running rampant in our days. I was only trying to offer comfort by reminding you of the hope we have in Him: that He will overcome! But being comforted by the thought isn’t the same as rejoicing in it. As I said earlier, the rejoicing comes after the fact, not before and certainly not during! We Hebrews rehearse that Terrible Day every year on Yom Kippur by fasting, praying and afflicting ourselves in all humility because we know “it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God” (Heb 10:31.) Yet 5 days later, we rejoice before the Lord for 7 days at the Feast of Tabernacles, which Zech 14 says is the 1st thing we will do in the Kingdom.

Laws on stone aren't as great as laws in soft hearts Jer 31:31-34.

The Lord has been leading me on a very intensive study on ancient middle-eastern covenants. One thing I learned is that stone (eben = “father/son” as noted above) is used not only as a memorial, but also to stand as an eternal witness between the parties involved in a covenant. Stone is eternal, just like salt.

The person suffering palsy didn't repent: MT 9:2, MT 9:5.

Mark 2:3-5 gives more detail of this account and the determination of this man and those who brought him testify that he was repentant. Just because dialogue is not recorded doesn’t mean it didn’t take place. Besides, this event is recorded only to prove the authority and the power of Messiah (Jesus) to forgive sin and heal flesh.

Sometimes people sin in ignorance & they are still guilty, however a priest can atone for and gain forgiveness for them NUM 15:28, LK 23:34.

Yet their guilt is not counted against them until they know their error. And when they do realize it, they confess their sin and seek His forgiveness at the Altar.

This discusses a normal Jewish concept of people sinning against each other & needing to seek remedy by apologising and rectifying wrongs, much like Jesus discussing the need to fix human relationship damage before assuming to have prayer relationship with God

The Church adopted this idea from Judaism, and both are in error. Let’s say a man steals a car and wrecks it. No apology will remedy the fact that the victim no longer has transportation. The only thing that will "rectify the wrong" for the victim is the thief to replace the car, and then pay him 1/5 of its original value for for the owner's “pain and suffering” caused by the loss. This Instruction is found in Num 5:5-7 If you do something wrong to another person, you have been unfaithful to the Lord. When you realize your guilt, you must confess your sin, pay in full for what you did wrong, add one-fifth to it, and give it to the person who was wronged.
But that’s only half of it. Notice it says that when we sin against each other, we are also being “unfaithful to the Lord.” Once atonement (meaning “at one with”) has been achieved with the car’s owner, now the thief has to atone (“become one with”) God at His Altar. This is the same thing Jesus taught in Matt 5:23-24.

I certainly did misunderstand you because I assumed the snippet below from an earlier post indicated that you would 'take great comfort' in their punishment from God's vengeance, which in Aus indicates you enjoyed the concept of their demise since 'taking comfort' here means appreciation/enjoyment or does it mean something different there?

Hmmm. I didn’t realize that in Aussie “comfort” and “enjoyment” meant the same thing. Webster's Dictionary defines them as:
Comfort: consolation in time of trouble or worry; solace; peace
Enjoy: to have a good time; to take pleasure or satisfaction in

 

[anotherglenda]

Hmmm. I didn’t realize that in Aussie “comfort” and “enjoyment” meant the same thing. Webster's Dictionary defines them as:
Comfort: consolation in time of trouble or worry; solace; peace
Enjoy: to have a good time; to take pleasure or satisfaction in

I see a source of some misunderstanding.
The term 'take comfort' is considered here as an entire term instead of 2 unrelated individual words ie 'take' + 'comfort', which considered separately can mean something entirely different, which would also require defining the meaning of the single word 'take'.
The entire term 'take comfort' is considered here in the same way as a thesaurus describes that entire term eg Take comfort Synonyms, Take comfort Antonyms | Thesaurus.com
which means 'enjoy, relish, wallow, derive pleasure, revel' etc.
I honestly thought you were 'taking comfort' in that way at the concept of wicked people suffering. I'm truly glad I was wrong. Thank you for clarifying that.

Had I known this subject would spark such controversy between us, I would’ve kept my big mouth shut! Forgive me, but I just felt you were discouraged over the cruelty and wickedness running rampant in our days. I was only trying to offer comfort by reminding you of the hope we have in Him: that He will overcome!

Thank you so much for your kindness. Now that I understand better, I truly appreciate your efforts to console. Please forgive me for previously not understanding and thus responding ignorantly.

But being comforted by the thought isn’t the same as rejoicing in it.

Now I understand how you mean this and agree.

As I said earlier, the rejoicing comes after the fact, not before and certainly not during!

I can only rejoice at the destruction of my own sins & the ceasing of others from theirs. I don't like the suffering of living things so I couldn't rejoice at others suffering, yet I don't object to speedy death but I do object to torture since it requires cruelty.

We Hebrews rehearse that Terrible Day every year on Yom Kippur by fasting, praying and afflicting ourselves in all humility because we know “it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God” (Heb 10:31.) Yet 5 days later, we rejoice before the Lord for 7 days at the Feast of Tabernacles, which Zech 14 says is the 1st thing we will do in the Kingdom.

It is a blessing that God promotes rejoicing soon after Yom Kippur

There is no need for Abraham’s name to be used here because it was written to Israel (Mal 1:1.) And they knew who they are, where they came from, and the covenant God made with their father, Abraham. So, there wasn’t a need for Malachi to specifically mention Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It’s no different for us Americans to talk about our “forefathers” without ever saying “George Washington” or “James Madison.” It’s assumed that we already know who they are.

Americans & Aussies may understand this differently because Aussies don't necessarily recognise possible forefathers of this nation.
Reading scripture at face value without cultural preconceived notions, One God created us, including the righteous & the wicked. God didn't only create the forefathers of the nation of Israel. God even called non-Israelite Cyrus His Chosen and Cyrus wasn't forefathered by Abraham. I find it's safest to not make assumptions or read into things what is not written, since that would be adding to scripture. I appreciate your assumptions arising from a background of national forefathers and I'm grateful you explained that too thank you.

You might be confusing the modern block Hebrew script with its earlier Paleo-Hebrew form which both are picture language. Neither of them has capital letters.

Well if one form of the original writings was all block letters, and a different form of the original writings was all lower case, then maybe English translators should choose to write their translation in either all upper or all lower case, rather than simply choose which words to start with a capital and which not to. English doesn't do justice to originals, yet we can glean enough from our poor translations to live on and I'm grateful God mercifully enabled this.

Let's back up 8 verses to Mat 23:1-2 "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying:The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. The “seat of Moses” is a raised platform found in every synagogue (even today) where the 5 Books of Moses (Genesis-Deut) is read aloud to the people. While on this platform, the reader may only read the text; he may not give his own personal opinion.
V 3- “Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, (while in the Seat of Moses) that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

That's very informative thank you.

The Lord has been leading me on a very intensive study on ancient middle-eastern covenants. One thing I learned is that stone (eben = “father/son” as noted above) is used not only as a memorial, but also to stand as an eternal witness between the parties involved in a covenant. Stone is eternal, just like salt.

Stone may be considered somewhat eternal until it slowly erodes under weathering, but God says he doesn't want our hearts to be stoney & instead wants them swapped for flesh. Salt can also lose saltiness, which Jesus warned against.

 

[John 5:46]

I am so very sorry for not responding sooner. I haven't forgotten you or blown you off, but things have gotten crazy BUSY around here!

Americans & Aussies may understand this differently because Aussies don't necessarily recognise possible forefathers of this nation.

You’re right. Australians don’t have the advantage we Americans do of having “national fathers” and clinging to the ideals of what they envisioned their new country to be like. In fact, we (the U.S.) are in great distress as a nation right now because a lot of “progressive” left-wing ding-bats want to do away with those ideals expressed in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. But can you not at least grasp the concept of national forefathers?

Reading scripture at face value without cultural preconceived notions…..

…Was the very same mistake I made for most of my life! Since I was raised under the Greek/Roman culture of the U.S., I approached the Scriptures with my own “preconceived cultural ideas” according to my “western” mindset. But I finally realized that the Scriptures weren’t written to the western culture, but rather to those living in the middle-east. And I have learned that their culture is vastly different than the culture I was raised in. Something that seems insignificant to us Greeks, means volumes to them. Just look at the 2 of us, Glenda! While we share the same western culture and speak the same language, even our cultures and word definitions differ tremendously! So, just as Isaiah 46:8-10 instructs me, I am learning the “former things of old…” (because I cannot “remember the former things of old…”) I’m learning how the ancients in the middle-east viewed things, and especially how they entered into covenants with each other.

Well if one form of the original writings was all block letters, and a different form of the original writings was all lower case, then maybe English translators should choose to write their translation in either all upper or all lower case, rather than simply choose which words to start with a capital and which not to.

In this case, it’s not the fault of the translators. It’s a different mindset. The Hebrew language is an excellent example of what I was saying above… that Greeks do things differently than Hebrews do. Greeks capitalize names, places, and the beginning of sentences; Hebrews don’t. Although, in many places of the Hebrew text there ARE enlarged letters, and small letters, and even some letters are written backwards! There are also many scribal marks in the Hebrew (the “jots and tittles” Jesus talked about in Matt 5:18) that are not carried over into any other languages. Yet ALL 3 of the above are used to signify that a deeper meaning is being expressed in the passages.

English doesn't do justice to originals, yet we can glean enough from our poor translations to live on and I'm grateful God mercifully enabled this.

The sad truth is, there isn’t a single translation in any language that gives us the entire Word of God. A BUNCH of it is completely left out. And then some words (and even phrases) are added into the translations, to “help” with the “flow” of the verse. But more often than not, these additions are more harmful than good because they change the context of what’s really being said. But at least the KJV and NKJV put these additions in italics so the reader knows it’s not in the original text. But it’s hard to blame the translators because they simply didn’t understand the Hebrew language, and its nuances, nor the concepts of the middle-eastern culture, or their mindset.

Stone may be considered somewhat eternal until it slowly erodes under weathering….

That’s the way the Greek/Roman culture views stone, NOT the way Mesopotamians view stone. As I explained in my last post, “stone” in Hebrew is literally “father/son.” And I guarantee that neither one of Them will “slowly erode under weathering.”

…. but God says he doesn't want our hearts to be stoney & instead wants them swapped for flesh.

The Hebrew language and Scriptures not only teaches that God is THE stone, and THE Rock of our Salvation, but also that a person with a “heart of stone” places their own wants and desires over and above the Living God. A stony heart refuses to submit to His instructions, and will instead “pick and choose” which ones he/she wants to follow, and then discard the rest. By doing so, that person declares that he/she is above God.
In contrast, having a heart of flesh means a person desires to be obedient to their King in every aspect of their life, even if they don’t understand its meaning or if they don’t like doing it. That’s how you “love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your strength.” And how you “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. This is the physical act of walking out our faith.

Salt can also lose saltiness, which Jesus warned against.

"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. First of all, salt cannot “lose” its saltiness. But it can be MIXED with other elements to override its flavor. That’s what Messiah is teaching in this passage. We are supposed to be set apart (different) from the rest of the world. Our seasoning must be pure and not “watered-down” so that we are distinct from other people. Yet there is a HUGE multitude of believers out there who blend in so perfectly with unbelievers that you can’t tell them apart. They are unsalted… bland and tasteless. The warning Messiah gives us is that the unsalted “are worthless and will be thrown down and trampled.” Pretty scary stuff, especially in light of Mat 7:21-23 where we see many call upon the name of the Lord and can even do miracles in His name, but the Lord will cast them away from Him because they were without law. They were not seasoned with the SALT of the Torah (law.)

 

[anotherglenda]

I am so very sorry for not responding sooner. I haven't forgotten you or blown you off, but things have gotten crazy BUSY around here!

Greetings John 5:46
Please don't be sorry since there is no offence. I empathise with crazy busy since we are in same boat Truly thanking God for sabbath rest!

You’re right. Australians don’t have the advantage we Americans do of having “national fathers” ... But can you not at least grasp the concept of national forefathers?
…Was the very same mistake I made for most of my life! Since I was raised under the Greek/Roman culture of the U.S., I approached the Scriptures with my own “preconceived cultural ideas” according to my “western” mindset. But I finally realized that the Scriptures weren’t written to the western culture, but rather to those living in the middle-east. And I have learned that their culture is vastly different than the culture I was raised in. Something that seems insignificant to us Greeks, means volumes to them. Just look at the 2 of us, Glenda! While we share the same western culture and speak the same language, even our cultures and word definitions differ tremendously!

Yes I can grasp the concept of national forefathers, but can you grasp the concept that 'blood moon' considerations in the westernised USA are not the same as the Middle Eastern scriptural concept of 'blood moon' which includes 'vapour of smoke' in Acts 2. Coming from regional Aus, that description fits a serious fire ... that's personal observation in witnessing such events and not coloured by some western culture words.

So, just as Isaiah 46:8-10 instructs me, I am learning the “former things of old…” (because I cannot “remember the former things of old…”) I’m learning how the ancients in the middle-east viewed things, and especially how they entered into covenants with each other.

We are in the same boat in this too

In this case, it’s not the fault of the translators. It’s a different mindset.... But it’s hard to blame the translators because they simply didn’t understand the Hebrew language, and its nuances, nor the concepts of the middle-eastern culture, or their mindset.

Often the translators from Hebrew to Greek, were Jews who recognised there was no alternative language equivalent to Hebrew words (eg LXX). Our English translations/transliterations are even further removed from original sources. Unless we are incredible ancient language experts, we can never hope to have the skills at understanding nuances like the original translators had. Sadly some later scribes translated into English errantly according to their own preconceived ideas & agendas.

The sad truth is, there isn’t a single translation in any language that gives us the entire Word of God. A BUNCH of it is completely left out. And then some words (and even phrases) are added into the translations, to “help” with the “flow” of the verse. But more often than not, these additions are more harmful than good because they change the context of what’s really being said. But at least the KJV and NKJV put these additions in italics so the reader knows it’s not in the original text.

Agreed about additions, omissions & modifications. Some may be innocent & some may not.

That’s the way the Greek/Roman culture views stone, NOT the way Mesopotamians view stone. As I explained in my last post, “stone” in Hebrew is literally “father/son.” And I guarantee that neither one of Them will “slowly erode under weathering.”

The word 'stone' may 'literally' involve father/son ... however, God is not a 'literal' stone. Peter was a human and not a 'literal' stone even if he was given that as a 'name'. It's worth remembering that the 'literal' stones of the decalogue (errantly translated into English as '10 commandments' which 10 'sayings/statements' actually involve more than 10 'commandments') were smashed to pieces so we can see that literal stones aren't permanent. The 2nd decalogue on stones at Ex 34 is totally different to the original decalogue of Ex 20 which was smashed. At Deut 5, Moses reminds the people of God's eternal Words which had been said and then written on those temporary stones, even if they weren't the stones & writings which ended up in the ark. It's not the 'literal' non-eternal stones which matter. Stones do literally smash & weather, while God's Words are eternal.

"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. First of all, salt cannot “lose” its saltiness. But it can be MIXED with other elements to override its flavor. That’s what Messiah is teaching in this passage.

I was actually referring to MK 9:50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

That verse has Jesus referring to salt losing its saltiness, which is a chemistry possibility
For this to happen it would need to be diluted ... water down the vibrant gospel self-sacrificing lifestyle ... or like in electrolysis, suffer de-naturing current which splits the closely paired atoms apart ... have salt of peace with one another (not split apart like salt under elecrolysis which causes salt to lose its saltiness)

 

[John 5:46]

Please don't be sorry since there is no offence. I empathise with crazy busy since we are in same boat Truly thanking God for sabbath rest!

Good morning anotherglenda! It seems that the closer we get to Passover, the crazier things get!
Forgive me, but aside from mentioning the Sabbath, I don’t get the impression you’re Messianic. I’m a little confused ……

…can you grasp the concept that 'blood moon' considerations in the westernised USA are not the same as the Middle Eastern scriptural concept of 'blood moon' which includes 'vapour of smoke' in Acts 2.

Which is why I stated earlier that I didn’t understand why this coming lunar tetrad was named “blood moons,” except perhaps to get peoples’ attention. And I believe that the event spoken of in Acts 2 is NOT the lunar tetrad.

Unless we are incredible ancient language experts, we can never hope to have the skills at understanding nuances like the original translators had.

Which is why I’m learning Hebrew. That way, I don’t get misled by the mistakes of man, whether they are intentional or not. But I think you're being too hard on yourself. It doesn't take an "incredible ancient language expert" to learn it. I'm just a red-neck cowgirl and I'm getting it.

The 2nd decalogue on stones at Ex 34 is totally different to the original decalogue of Ex 20 which was smashed.

Why do you think they are “totally different?”

That verse has Jesus referring to salt losing its saltiness, which is a chemistry possibility

So what do you think the difference is between a salted believer and an unsalted believer?

 

[anotherglenda]

Good morning anotherglenda! It seems that the closer we get to Passover, the crazier things get!

Good evening John 5:46
We have agreement about things getting crazier as Passover/Unleavened approaches. I've discovered I need new glasses to read the tiny writing on food items to see what the ingredients are ... plus trying to fit tasks & appointments in before the festival can be tricky. Whatever has to wait a week is fine with me though coz I'm looking forward to it & not long now by Karaite calendar ... 3 more nights.

Forgive me, but aside from mentioning the Sabbath, I don’t get the impression you’re Messianic. I’m a little confused ……

I'm a serious disciple/student of Jewish Jesus, who I believed embraced and promoted Karaite/Scriptural Judaism rather than 'traditions' and promoted mercy over judgment as per scriptural prophets. Others can judge me as messianic or not as per a different thread where others are welcome to pigeon-hole a classification for me if they desire. Since my beliefs are similar to Zardoz, the messianic section of forum is roughly where I belong according to very broad forum description.

Which is why I’m learning Hebrew. That way, I don’t get misled by the mistakes of man, whether they are intentional or not. But I think you're being too hard on yourself. It doesn't take an "incredible ancient language expert" to learn it. I'm just a red-neck cowgirl and I'm getting it.

I use multiple translations & always check the original word meanings in an attempt to overcome possible translator agendas, but I'll never be an expert & that's ok .... as long as I get the sense & context & clarity I'm happy & often there are key words which clarify other texts eg when Jesus discussed seed parables & their relationship with each other ... and he clarified that if you don't get one then you'll misunderstand the rest ... like many people fail to recognise the parable about the wheat & tares is a related seed parable where seeds are words and Satan is the father of lies while God is the Father of Truth (Jesus didn't suddenly go around planting humans ... he planted God's Truth ie Words and it is lies which will be ripped up, not humans).

Why do you think they are “totally different?”

Because they are.
The only statement in the 2nd decalogue which overlaps with the original decalogue is about the weekly sabbath.
You said previously that God is leading you to intensively study ancient covenants

The Lord has been leading me on a very intensive study on ancient middle-eastern covenants.

The 2 different covenant decalogues are well worth deep personal research rather than seek 2nd-hand opinions which often involve theories which lack scriptural support.
I've come to a consideration about the 2 different decalogues which possibility I haven't read anywhere else. If we totally ignore traditional preconceived notions & focus on scripture alone with fresh eyes, we can read clearly that the stones were written on BOTH their sides ... the inside AND the outside ... this is not how diagrams depict the stones. Since Ex 34 says totally different things to Ex 20, it is possible that Ex 34 may be telling us what was written on the reverse side of the original stones since we don't need another repeat of what was written on the upper side everyone already knows well.
Please intensively study Ex 34 for yourself & notice the differences and share your considerations.

 

[John 5:46]

Shabbat shalom anotherglenda! Whew, even on Shabbat the day goes by so quickly! I’m having to use another computer for awhile until I can get my new internet data card for my laptop. I've had a doozie of a time trying to remember my password as my computer is smarter than I am- it remembers all that stuff for me! I can’t wait to get mine back! We had an awesome Seder Sunday night, and then we were treated to a spectacular view of the eclipse on Monday! We were worried a passing storm system would block our view, so we kept praying for a break in the clouds. When the alarm went off at 1 a.m., we were thrilled to find not a single cloud was is the sky! Truly a blessing! And yes, it was blood red... with no smoke!

I'm a serious disciple/student of Jewish Jesus, who I believed embraced and promoted Karaite/Scriptural Judaism rather than 'traditions' and promoted mercy over judgment as per scriptural prophets. Others can judge me as messianic or not as per a different thread where others are welcome to pigeon-hole a classification for me if they desire. Since my beliefs are similar to Zardoz, the messianic section of forum is roughly where I belong according to very broad forum description.

I’ve heard of these Karaite and Zardoz groups, but I confess I don’t know much about them, other than their names. Back when I was a Christian, it took me a long time to realize that there isn’t a “Pentecostal” gate leading into the New Jerusalem. Nor is there a Baptist, Catholic, Pharisee, Saducee, Zardoz or even Kararite gate. Since I don’t know yet which tribe I belong to, I’m real careful to not label myself as anything other than just a grafted-in Messianic believer. I think labels are the way the body of believers are distanced and isolated from each other. That’s not a good thing to do because that’s how we lose our way ....by not being unified with one accord. Not to mention the discord that is sown between fellow brethren just because one “belongs” to one group and one “belongs” to another group. But this is just my humble opinion and I’m not asking anyone to agree or disagree with it.

... like many people fail to recognise the parable about the wheat & tares is a related seed parable where seeds are words and Satan is the father of lies while God is the Father of Truth (Jesus didn't suddenly go around planting humans ... he planted God's Truth ie Words and it is lies which will be ripped up, not humans).

Hmmm. That’s an interesting theory. But you might want to consider what Yeshua said in Matt 13:38 concerning the identity of these seeds. But it's only a suggestion.

Please intensively study Ex 34 for yourself & notice the differences and share your considerations.

The 10 Commandments given in Ex 20 were heard by all the people standing at the base of the mountain. If you recall, this event scared them so badly that they begged God not to say anything else to them because they believed it would kill them. They wanted Moses to ascend the mountain, hear what God had to say, and then descend the mountain and tell them what God spoke. (It's a GREAT definition of who the Messiah would be: One who ascends and descends.) In verse 1 of Ex 34 we find that God is talking only to Moses here -meaning while he was up on the mountain. Therefore, Ex 34 is not a retelling of the 10 Commandments; but Deut 5 is.

 

[anotherglenda]

Shabbat shalom anotherglenda! ...Truly a blessing! And yes, it was blood red... with no smoke!

Happy last day Unleavened to you John 5:46. I’m glad you have internet access and also got to enjoy a nice Sunday seder plus view a blood moon over the Americas which didn’t happen in Israel since it wasn’t in path of this eclipse (or some future ones). Mars was notably stunning & worth a look though.

​

I’ve heard of these Karaite and Zardoz groups, but I confess I don’t know much about them, other than their names. ...I think labels are the way the body of believers are distanced and isolated from each other. That’s not a good thing to do because that’s how we lose our way ....by not being unified with one accord. Not to mention the discord that is sown between fellow brethren just because one “belongs” to one group and one “belongs” to another group. But this is just my humble opinion and I’m not asking anyone to agree or disagree with it.

Zardoz is a moderator on this board who fits the Messianic section. He is a well-researched Israelite fluent in Hebrew and shares some very informative posts we can learn from if we desire. If you learn Hebrew you will find ‘Karaite’ means ‘Scriptural’. Jesus was scriptural and often had disagreements with non-scriptural religious people. Karaites and Bereans share in common personally ‘searching the scriptures’ rather than simply accept others’ ideas. Deep personal research is highly recommended.

Hmmm. That’s an interesting theory. But you might want to consider what Yeshua said in Matt 13:38 concerning the identity of these seeds. But it's only a suggestion.

I have read it and suggest studying further scripture which clarifies the term ‘children of the Kingdom’ used ‘in this instance’ does not refer to ‘flesh born’ humans. Jesus also discussed ‘spiritual birth’. If we are willing to open to it, more scripture clarifies what the spiritual offspring/children of God/Kingdom or the wicked one are. Satan (aka ‘the wicked one’/evil inclination Jas 1:14) is spiritually (not physically) the father of lies/error while God is spiritually (not physically) the Father of Lights/Truth.

The scriptural truth (not theory) I shared is also stated elsewhere in scripture in a different way to how Jesus expressed it:
PS 85:11 Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
As Jesus clarified in his other seed parables, neither Jesus nor ‘a wicked one’ went around planting multiple physical humans in dirt (or in multiple human wombs to produce physical children!!)… but instead Jesus and a wicked one planted spiritual seed/children (which grow to maturity) … Jesus planted God’s Truth (in this instance called spiritually ‘children of the kingdom’) and a wicked one planted error (called in this instance spiritually ‘children of the wicked one’ per Jesus clarification that Satan is the father of lies so lies are his children; while God is the Father of Lights/truth so truth/lights are His children. When God’s seed planted by Jesus matures in us (the Kingdom within Lk 17:21) we finally recognize lies/error we previously didn’t

The 10 Commandments given in Ex 20 were heard by all the people standing at the base of the mountain ... this event scared them so badly that they begged God not to say anything else to them because they believed it would kill them. They wanted Moses to ascend the mountain, hear what God had to say, and then descend the mountain and tell them what God spoke. ...In verse 1 of Ex 34 we find that God is talking only to Moses here -meaning while he was up on the mountain. Therefore, Ex 34 is not a retelling of the 10 Commandments; but Deut 5 is.

I didn’t say Ex 34 was a re-telling of the 10 commandments. I said Ex 34 was a different Decalogue to the original and invited you to personally study for yourself this different 2nd stone Decalogue covenant. Here are some basics you previously asked me about:
2 different decalogues, before & after golden calf
both decalogues translated in most English bibles as ‘the ten commandments’
both decalogues covered by Ex 21-23 (& reconfirmed in another covenant Deut 29:1)
Calling 1st Decalogue ‘1a’ & 2nd Decalogue ‘1b’
1a Ex 20:2-17 (reminder at Deut 5:6-21) spoken & written in stone by God as covenant with Israel then stones & associated covenant broken (Jer 31:32).
1b (Ex 34:10-27) dictated by God & written in stone by Moses as covenant with Moses & also with Israel (Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Summary of statement topics in both decalogues:
1a. YHVH just brought His people out of Egypt /have no other gods
1b. YHVH slowly bringing His people into promised land while slowly driving out existing inhabitants
2a. Don't make graven images
2b. Avoid closeness with current inhabitants of promised land & their religious practices /have no other gods.
3a. Don't misuse the Name of YHVH
3b. Don't make graven images
4a. Weekly sabbath
4b. Feast of Unleavened bread
5a. Honour parents
5b. Firstborns and redemption
6a. Don't murder
6b. Weekly sabbath
7a. No adultery
7b. Three annual foot-festivals
8a. No theft
8b. Sacrifice issues
9a. No false witnessing
9b. Firstfruits
10a. No coveting
10b. Don't seethe kid in its mothers milk
Both decalogues equated somehow despite obvious differences: DEUT 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.