The manosphere and "alpha male" influencers

[The Hammer]

The leader of each family pack is the alpha.

Outdated term. They aren't called alpha anymore.

Just Dad and mom basically

 

[amorphous_constellation]

So, the topic itself is not really all that new, but there's something different about the way the "manosphere" approaches it. I can't quite put my finger on it, though. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here. I have my own theories as to what the core problem might be, although I'll resist the urge to go on another anti-capitalist rant until I see some other opinions on the topic

I think I'd rather go more to the root of these issues, and position the concepts and activities in observation, as social products. I'd rather look for example, at the cost of an average american house, and how many can afford it, as a predictor of social trends which are surely all downstream from that. If you ramp it up enough, I think it stimulates artificial competition, and basically acts as a narrowing filter for general success, from the mere marital to beyond.

People are listening to tate, or making analogies of themselves to wolves etc, because I think they got it set up so we all have to furiously chase money. Just as one small example, look up the price of an average marriage day - I don't remember what it was, but I'm sure it keeps going up. Look at the price of an average american birth

Conversely, if everyone had the right to a piece of land when they are born, and didn't have as many obligatory bills, then there wouldn't be as much near-obligatory selection pressure for money chasing. And that seems to be what our society is doing, is applying evolutionary selection pressure to filter for people who like making tons of money

 

[Estro Felino]

I've been reading recent warnings telling women to stay away from Italy, as they're warning against street harassment, groping, etc.

Really? I think the opposite, actually...
Finding a real heterosexual man nowadays is like asking for the moon.

I have lots of female friends...zero male friends.
They all say the average male is either a metrosexual or a male that won't date any woman, unless she looks like Miss Italy.

 

[The Hammer]

metrosexual

Why is a person who cares for their appearance considered a different sexuality???

 

[Estro Felino]

Why is a person who cares for their appearance considered a different sexuality???

Well..you're right... it has nothing to do with sexuality.

 

[PureX]

I don't think any of this is new. It's been going on for a long time and most of is it huckstering. These phony masculinity enhancers and get-the-girls secrets have been sold in the back pages of male-oriented magazines since I was a kid. And that was a long time ago. Most of it is 'snake oil' of one variety or another. Some of it is muck-raking and rabble-rousing by and for frustrated anti-social males. And a really small percentage of it is actually dangerous.

The difference, these days, is the internet. This stuff is no longer relegated to the back pages of the "Garage Warriors Monthly". Now it pretends to be news, or pretends to be a big social debate, or it pretends to be some revelatory issue and/or reactionary "movement". When all it really is, is just the modern mode of huckstering.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Andrew Tate, Kevin Samuels, And The Fresh & Fit Podcast: How Toxic Male Influencers Impact Loved Ones (buzzfeednews.com)

I came across this story which popped up in my newsfeed this morning. I've seen some of these stories before, most of the time on my visits to Reddit, where there are some subreddits where issues like this are discussed. It talks about the influence of the "manosphere" and how it has affected some people's lives, which was the focus of this particular article.



I had never even heard of Andrew Tate until he was deplatformed, and I've never seen any of his videos.





I don't know how much actual influence any of these "influencers" have, but it does appear to be a sub-set within the overall alt-right phenomenon which has gripped the political culture in recent years. A lot of younger men and boys also seem to be influenced by this - a lot of them may be from troubled backgrounds, dysfunctional families, confused by mixed messages pervasive throughout society, an uncertain future. They become like rebels looking for a cause, and there's always someone out there to provide one.

Trump seems to exude this certain "alpha male" image which many in that crowd tend to champion. I don't think that all who fall into that category are necessarily pro-Trump, though. Most seem apolitical, or at least, their focus seems more social/culture-oriented rather than overtly political.

I've always noticed and have been aware of men who have talked to other men about bad relationships, past breakups, emotional baggage like most of us have. Men write songs about the women who did them wrong; it's been the subject of a lot of literary works and commentary throughout the ages.

So, the topic itself is not really all that new, but there's something different about the way the "manosphere" approaches it. I can't quite put my finger on it, though. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here. I have my own theories as to what the core problem might be, although I'll resist the urge to go on another anti-capitalist rant until I see some other opinions on the topic.

I guess what really gets to me is the terminology they use. "Alpha male" sounds like they're comparing human communities to a pack of wolves. One needs a glossary to be able to understand all the jargon and acronyms they use.

I find it kind of silly because it unnecessarily puts men in competition with each other since we all want to be "alpha males," right? If there's an alpha, that assumes there must be a beta.

If I remember right, there were men's groups in the 70s that focused on men supporting each other in more healthy emotional ways, recognizing that men also need emotional support and can lean on each other for support. This description from the "manosphere" sounds extremely unhealthy.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

So this sounds like someone's biased interpretation of what the influencers are actually doing..why should we buy it?

If you read up on Andrew Tate, it seems like exactly what he (at least) is doing:

Andrew Tate - Wikipedia

 

[Wildswanderer]

There is no alpha in a wolf pack. The guy who first said it even said he was wrong and tried to correct it.
Wolf packs don’t actually have alpha males and alpha females, the idea is based on a misunderstanding

I trust the wolf trappers I know to give correct information, not someone who has book learning.
Yes, packs have a hierarchy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why is a person who cares for their appearance considered a different sexuality???

I've been wondering that since the first time I heard the phrase. A quote from some guy in an article that introduced me to the term, I agree with him that it sounds like you have a fetish for having sex on a subway or something like that.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Outdated term. They aren't called alpha anymore.

Just Dad and mom basically

That's like saying the boss isn't the boss because we changed his name.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I trust the wolf trappers I know to give correct information, not someone who has book learning.
Yes, packs have a hierarchy.

Book learning LMFAO!!!!! Spoken like a true anti-intellectual American.
People who run wolf sanctuaries and study them as Jane Goodall studied chimps will say wolves do not have an alpha.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Andrew Tate, Kevin Samuels, And The Fresh & Fit Podcast: How Toxic Male Influencers Impact Loved Ones (buzzfeednews.com)

Republican Senator Josh Hawley just released a book on the topic. His timing was unfortunate, as at about the same time, video of him running and hiding from the insurrectionists he helped enable was released. Not a very manly look for him:

 

[The Hammer]

That's like saying the boss isn't the boss because we changed his name.

You think of parenting as a boss/subordinate relationship? I prefer leaders to bosses myself.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's like saying the boss isn't the boss because we changed his name.

No, it's changing the name because we reqlized we had the wrong idea of what was going on.
But that's why science is great. We make a mistake and then correct it when the mistake is realized.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Book learning LMFAO!!!!! Spoken like a true anti-intellectual American.
People who run wolf sanctuaries and study them as Jane Goodall studied chimps will say wolves do not have an alpha.

Bunny huggers know nothing about the real world.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You think of parenting as a boss/subordinate relationship? I prefer leaders to bosses myself.

Of course a leader is the boss. If you don't have a boss you have chaos.

 

[The Hammer]

Of course a leader is the boss. If you don't have a boss you have chaos.

A leader and a boss are separate things.

 

[Wildswanderer]

A leader and a boss are separate things.

He is the one that has the ultimate authority.
And among animals, especially predators, that means he's the one that's the biggest and/or toughest.
I can even observe this among my own chickens, the rooster that wins the most fights gets the most chicks.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Bunny huggers know nothing about the real world.

With that reply I'm not even sure you live in the real world.