The Mens Rights /Issues "debate"?

[Alceste]

Here it is:

Been a while since I watched this, but I think it probably needs a language warning.

[youtube]bQNc8UvELoE[/youtube]
Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQNc8UvELoE

 

[Me Myself]

What if I had a double mastectomy?

I would be sad

 

[DallasApple]

Here it is:

Been a while since I watched this, but I think it probably needs a language warning.

[youtube]bQNc8UvELoE[/youtube]
Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQNc8UvELoE

His language is fine with me.He has an impactful way of speech to get across a message he finds true.

His passion and manner of speech are on everyone's side.

Hes a LOUD truth teller! LOL!!! Thanks Alceste.

And don't worry men. I heard him about the part of men having to 'prove" they are a decent parent.Its not assumed in the courts.

I'm fully on board with anything I can do to change that.Its totally wrong.And it harms our youngsters.

 

[Alceste]

His language is fine with me.He has an impactful way of speech to get across a message he finds true.

His passion and manner of speech are on everyone's side.

Hes a LOUD truth teller! LOL!!! Thanks Alceste.

And don't worry men. I heard him about the part of men having to 'prove" they are a decent parent.Its not assumed in the courts.

I'm fully on board with anything I can do to change that.Its totally wrong.And it harms our youngsters.

Totally agree. Never heard a feminist say otherwise. That's the sad part.

 

[DallasApple]

Oh Alceste he touched on the part that the claim is courts reflect a patriarcal line of thinking on custody? He said " I don't know"..Well I do!

You cant run around claiming women are "better at" raising kids but upon divorce say you are equally good at it.That doesn't hold water in my nap sack.

I've looked tiny bit at the law and how they decide custody.And its beyond the overwhelming claim by men that women are better fit(before they are facing the challenge of divorce) to take care of children.

But that is disputed.

 

[Alceste]

Oh Alceste he touched on the part that the claim is courts reflect a patriarcal line of thinking on custody? He said " I don't know"..Well I do!

You cant run around claiming women are "better at" raising kids but upon divorce say you are equally good at it.That doesn't hold water in my nap sack.

I've looked tiny bit at the law and how they decide custody.And its beyond the overwhelming claim by men that women are better fit(before they are facing the challenge of divorce) to take care of children.

But that is disputed.

I know a few broken hearted dads whose co-parent just took the kid and up and moved to another province or country without a word. Others whose exes use access to their kids as a means of extorting money. It's not cool, however you look at it. For every case settled in family court, there are a dozen more nobody can afford a lawyer, and dads usually seem to get a crappy deal either way when it comes to access to their kids. It's like maternal primary custody is just assumed, and if a guy wants to have a relationship with his kids he has to prove himself worthy.

 

[Volodya]

The MRA guys are likely to respond with a question.Well what about all the women that falsley accuse men of rape?What are you prepared to do about that?

A woman who falsely claims rape should get the same sentence that a rapist would.

A minimum of 5 years would be appropriate, to stop this kind of false accusation.

 

[Me Myself]

A woman who falsely claims rape should get the same sentence that a rapist would.

A minimum of 5 years would be appropriate, to stop this kind of false accusation.

This is not done with any other kind of accusations, so there is no reason to make a special case for rape.

The only thing really needed is that the cases are fair and that there is evidence shown beyond all reasonable doubt about the accused culpability if he is to be thrown in jail.

BUT what I do am very much against is the accused going on the news and similar. I can understand this when found guilty, not before, as it destroys the life of the man. The accused should have the same privilege of anonymity as the accusing, as they are both innocents at that time and both their lifes can be seriously damaged by destroying such anonymity.

 

[Alceste]

This is not done with any other kind of accusations, so there is no reason to make a special case for rape.

The only thing really needed is that the cases are fair and that there is evidence shown beyond all reasonable doubt about the accused culpability if he is to be thrown in jail.

BUT what I do am very much against is the accused going on the news and similar. I can understand this when found guilty, not before, as it destroys the life of the man. The accused should have the same privilege of anonymity as the accusing, as they are both innocents at that time and both their lifes can be seriously damaged by destroying such anonymity.

So reasonable.

 

[DallasApple]

This is not done with any other kind of accusations, so there is no reason to make a special case for rape.

The only thing really needed is that the cases are fair and that there is evidence shown beyond all reasonable doubt about the accused culpability if he is to be thrown in jail.

BUT what I do am very much against is the accused going on the news and similar. I can understand this when found guilty, not before, as it destroys the life of the man. The accused should have the same privilege of anonymity as the accusing, as they are both innocents at that time and both their lifes can be seriously damaged by destroying such anonymity.

I agree. I would fully be on board with the accused being anonymous unless found guilty.

But then that would have to go for ALL accused not just men accused of rape.

To be fair ANY crime that any one is ever accused of should be secret to the public.Until or unless they are convicted.

 

[Revoltingest]

Before I just delete the post is anyone interested in addressing what I SAID or asked in the post?
Besides Revoltingest the only thing so far as feed back is I posted in the wrong area.

I noticed, but couldn't post. Also, I see feminism & masculinism as complementary rather than opposing.
You might see some real discussion once the kids stop jumping up & down on their beds, & settle down.

 

[Revoltingest]

A woman who falsely claims rape should get the same sentence that a rapist would.
A minimum of 5 years would be appropriate, to stop this kind of false accusation.

There's a potential problem.
Harsh sanctions could cause the concocting complainant to continue the charge.
Prosecutors would have to be careful to both discourage falsehoods, & encourage fessing up.

 

[DallasApple]

I noticed, but couldn't post. Also, I see feminism & masculinism as complementary rather than opposing.
You might see some real discussion once the kids stop jumping up & down on their beds, & settle down.

I haven't always had kids.(kind of )And one day kid's I have had wont be so much a factor anymore.So I'm listening.

Oh **** are you talking about my kids or other peoples kids?

Never mind.

 

[Revoltingest]

I haven't always had kids.(kind of )And one day kid's I have had wont be so much a factor anymore.So I'm listening.
Oh **** are you talking about my kids or other peoples kids?
Never mind.

I spoke of the unruly kids in the forum.

 

[DallasApple]

I noticed, but couldn't post. Also, I see feminism & masculinism as complementary rather than opposing.

Yesssss......

I have seen that before ..On the animal planet.
and its eluded to on the science channel.

 

[DallasApple]

I spoke of the unruly kids in the forum.

Yes sir.I got that.

 

[Me Myself]

Yesssss......

I have seen that before ..On the animal planet.
and its eluded to on the science channel.

Huh??

 

[Revoltingest]

Huh??

She meant "alluded".
Does that help?

 

[crossfire]

Its seems to me almost like a "defense" argument to feminism/women's issues rather than some of these guys are really super concerned about men.

The conversations seem to go like this.If you are speaking about women being raped.And the #'s are astronomical world wide.Women are being raped as we speak.Millions of times a year around the globe.Most of the rapists go unpunished.In many countries its not even illegal for a man to rape is wife.She is his property.

The MRA guys are likely to respond with a question.Well what about all the women that falsley accuse men of rape?What are you prepared to do about that?

Well nothing I guess.I mean I assume if she admits she lied she can be charged with slander in a civil court and you can sue her .And she should be charged criminally for filing a false police report if she went to the police.

I was actually disturbed to see a group of people discussing it and suggestions were as harsh as she be executed.The nicest ones were she serve the same amount of time in prison he would have had he actually raped her 10-15 years.Well then I could say what about the guys that plea bargain down and get off with way less including just long term probation ?

But my point is I don't understand why you are bringing to discussion one issue its "countered" with a completely different issue but related somehow? Domestic abuse? Men are abused too and nobody cares.Breast cancer epididmic? Men get prostate cancer.O.K well I donated money to the cause one time at the grocery /it was convenient/ but i have never donated any money for breast cancer.

Abortion ?What about his reproductive rights?Men get no say so. That one? O.K i can sympathize but there is NO viable alternative.The ONLY way to change that is to give the man the power legally to decide if she has to have an abortion or carry full term and deliver.Or outlaw abortion so there is no choice about it for either.I wont go for either one of those.

Oh the other suggestion is if he wants her to abort and she has the baby he should not have to pay child support. That's equality for you!Except it leaves out the welfare of the child.The dad gets laid and then the child gets screwed.

Anyway I'm rambling. Alceste said it though.Its obnoxios.(spelling).

Actually, I'm beginning to think that a men's issues forum is a good idea. The hijack/diversionary posts would be moved out of there, leaving meaningful conversation regarding the issues!

Many, if not most, feminists are also concerned about men's issues, so feminists would prolly be posting there in those conversations. I don't know if this is going to cause any complaints from some masculinists, but it would be a good way to identify those who are merely anti-feminist.

 

[Alceste]

Actually, I'm beginning to think that a men's issues forum is a good idea. The hijack/diversionary posts would be moved out of there, leaving meaningful conversation regarding the issues!

Many, if not most, feminists are also concerned about men's issues, so feminists would prolly be posting there in those conversations. I don't know if this is going to cause any complaints from some masculinists, but it would be a good way to identify those who are merely anti-feminist.

Sure, I'd post in there, prolly. OTOH, I still don't think it's necessary to avoid men's issues in the feminist DIR. I don't subscribe to a gender binary in my thinking, and the feminist issues that interest me most tend to affect everybody.

Here's the problem as I see it. Somebody posts "my partner is violent" in one DIR and someone else posts "I hit my partner" in the other. It's the same issue: domestic violence. And that's an issue feminists are very active in addressing. Non-gender-binary feminists like myself will not assume who hit who based on each party's allotment of genitals, but are still concerned about domestic violence, and consider it a feminist issue.

I think separating men's issues from feminism might create the misleading impression that there's one DIR for men and another for women, entrenching further binary gender stereotyping.

On the other hand, not everybody who wants to discuss men's issues is going to identify as a feminist, so