The mercy of the relatively short human lifespan

[F1fan]

Yes there are a number of ways to interpret Gen 1 and 2. I started off with the YEC ideas and realised that what science was discovering about the early earth did in fact agree with Genesis if Genesis was read in a certain way.

Why need to interpret it at all when science explains how things are? All a comparison shows is that ancient writers did not know very much about reality. I suggest it is smarter to look at the Bible symbolically and this doesn't create inner turmoil and conflict in the Christian mind. I see Christians struggle to make sense of their beliefs only because they were told untrue things from their tradition of belief.

But of course any faith in what the Bible says is going to run into science problems and problems with skeptics.

And the lesson should be is that the Bible is best as symbolism, and not literal messages. Believers beat their heads against the wall because they haven't figured this out.

 

[Brian2]

Why need to interpret it at all when science explains how things are? All a comparison shows is that ancient writers did not know very much about reality. I suggest it is smarter to look at the Bible symbolically and this doesn't create inner turmoil and conflict in the Christian mind. I see Christians struggle to make sense of their beliefs only because they were told untrue things from their tradition of belief.

And the lesson should be is that the Bible is best as symbolism, and not literal messages. Believers beat their heads against the wall because they haven't figured this out.

Yes I guess so, but if I believed Genesis as symbolism that would just mean skeptic arguments about that and how that is another stepping away from what the Bible says.

 

[F1fan]

Yes I guess so, but if I believed Genesis as symbolism that would just mean skeptic arguments about that and how that is another stepping away from what the Bible says.

What the Bible says has a long history of edits, translations, and sectarian interpretation, so it's all quite open to personal opinion at this point. What you, and other believers in the 21st century, should concern yourself with is: does my religious belief serve me, and is it consistent with what we understand of reality?

Obviously the more literalist the interpretation the less it works in the 21st century. So all this creates is chaos for the mind as a Christian, and why want that? Let's note that the basic reason any Christian today tries to interpret the Bible literally is what they are taught as a tradition of belief that dates back centuries, when people had no better idea of reality than they did when the Bible was written.

 

[Brian2]

What the Bible says has a long history of edits, translations, and sectarian interpretation, so it's all quite open to personal opinion at this point. What you, and other believers in the 21st century, should concern yourself with is: does my religious belief serve me, and is it consistent with what we understand of reality?

Obviously the more literalist the interpretation the less it works in the 21st century. So all this creates is chaos for the mind as a Christian, and why want that? Let's note that the basic reason any Christian today tries to interpret the Bible literally is what they are taught as a tradition of belief that dates back centuries, when people had no better idea of reality than they did when the Bible was written.

It's too much like making up our own beliefs based on what humans think they know about reality and ignoring any supposed revelation from a God.

 

[F1fan]

It's too much like making up our own beliefs based on what humans think they know about reality

That is your religious beliefs. Are you unaware of the influence of religious people in your life that led to you believe what you do? It doesn't make you wonder why there are so many different takes on the Bible if Christianity is true? How do you know if you are in the right sect? Maybe Muslims are right. Or perhaps it's the Mormons. How would you know? No matter what religion you think is true there are so many that could be the one. Maybe you have been duped. Maybe you are cooperating with them unknowingly.

and ignoring any supposed revelation from a God.

Why assume there was a revelation from God at all? Is it possible that the Bible was all invented by creative humans? Look how you struggle to make sense of it. Maybe that's because it was written by people who had little knowledge but big imaginations.

 

[Brian2]

That is your religious beliefs. Are you unaware of the influence of religious people in your life that led to you believe what you do? It doesn't make you wonder why there are so many different takes on the Bible if Christianity is true? How do you know if you are in the right sect? Maybe Muslims are right. Or perhaps it's the Mormons. How would you know? No matter what religion you think is true there are so many that could be the one. Maybe you have been duped. Maybe you are cooperating with them unknowingly.

Any one could be wrong in their beliefs, be they religious or not.

Why assume there was a revelation from God at all? Is it possible that the Bible was all invented by creative humans? Look how you struggle to make sense of it. Maybe that's because it was written by people who had little knowledge but big imaginations.

Maybe, but I believe it.

 

[F1fan]

Any one could be wrong in their beliefs, be they religious or not.

That's why smart and wise people reject ideas that are implausible and lack evidence, and have the discipline to follow evidence to sound conclusions. Even if a person makes a judgment and believes a conclusion, they know better than to treat this conclusions as absolute and final, and subject to correction. How can believers do this? Once they are taught that the Bible is true, and try to make sense of the stories, and they find problems, what then? They are trapped. This is why we see Christians and Muslims so committed to what they believe and end up finding excuses to keep believing.

Maybe, but I believe it.

Why? How did you come to believe it all? Have you ever thought about that, that others told you things in your youth and early life that you are now powerless to reject?

 

[excreationist]

That's why smart and wise people reject ideas that are implausible and lack evidence, and have the discipline to follow evidence to sound conclusions.

But the Bible says this:
1 Corinthians 3:18-20

Don’t fool yourselves. Suppose some of you think you are wise by the standards of the world. Then you should become “fools” so that you can become wise. The wisdom of this world is foolish in God’s eyes. It is written, “God catches wise people in their own evil plans.” It is also written, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of wise people don’t amount to anything.”

 

[F1fan]

But the Bible says this:
1 Corinthians 3:18-20

And do you know what gullible believers think? They believe it without thinking, and don't realize it is exactly what humans would write if they want to dupe and control gullible people. It's essentially propaganda, and it has been successful.

 

[Brian2]

That's why smart and wise people reject ideas that are implausible and lack evidence, and have the discipline to follow evidence to sound conclusions. Even if a person makes a judgment and believes a conclusion, they know better than to treat this conclusions as absolute and final, and subject to correction. How can believers do this? Once they are taught that the Bible is true, and try to make sense of the stories, and they find problems, what then? They are trapped. This is why we see Christians and Muslims so committed to what they believe and end up finding excuses to keep believing.

The evidence I followed gave the conclusions I arrived at. I followed it with faith and ended up with faith at the end, even with people throwing stones and bombs at that evidence all the way along the path.
What you call excuses we see as reasons, but the main reason is our faith and that keeps us looking for the answers and to not start believing everything that skeptics say about the Bible etc.

Why? How did you come to believe it all? Have you ever thought about that, that others told you things in your youth and early life that you are now powerless to reject?

I was brought up as a Catholic and yes I have considered what you say........................ but I must be powerless to reject it, as you say.

 

[F1fan]

The evidence I followed gave the conclusions I arrived at. I followed it with faith and ended up with faith at the end, even with people throwing stones and bombs at that evidence all the way along the path.

That is confirmation bias. Why not assess the evidence like critiucal thinkers, unless you just want the conclusion you want, which is to believe in ideas that can't be determined as rational?

What you call excuses we see as reasons,

But they are excuses because they deviate from logic and the evidence. If you used logic and followed the evidence you would have the same conclusions as critical thinkers and reject all ideas of a supernatural. Could it be you just can't let go the need to believe, and your mind plays tricks on itself to justify the belief?

but the main reason is our faith and that keeps us looking for the answers and to not start believing everything that skeptics say about the Bible etc.

Religious faith is built on excuses. This is what believers use when reason can't give them what they want.

I was brought up as a Catholic and yes I have considered what you say........................ but I must be powerless to reject it, as you say.

So indoctrinated. Catholic practices are very rigid and a child is taught the rituals. My nine cousins all went through this, and only two were able to break from the tradition. They do participate when at family functions at Mass. What's funny is that I grew up having Christmas Eve with them, and many of them said they wanted to go to midnight Mass to get it over with, and they would have all Christmas Day free. I was stunned they felt obligated. To my free mind I thought they would do what they wanted, not go. They didn't give themselves any option. They bought into the whole obligation, and this is how peer/social pressure works over the autonomy and agency of the individual mind.