The morals of being vegetarian/vegan

[MSizer]

It appears that no-one has opposed the morals of being vegetarian yet... Perhaps they are just apathetic?

Oh not all of them, as I'm sure you've encountered before in other places. We just had a debate about this earlier this week though, so I think most people have said thier part for a little while, that's all.

 

[nomadchild]

Oh not all of them, as I'm sure you've encountered before in other places. We just had a debate about this earlier this week though, so I think most people have said thier part for a little while, that's all.

Oh, I see. I will give it some time then

 

[Duck]

Congratulations on this statement. It is an enlightened one IMO.

Thank you. The realization stemmed from a show on the discovery channel actually. It related to studies on a number of birds (one particular group in Australia, can't remember the name, but it was I believe a species of parrot) that indicated the birds were self aware. Other articles revealing self-awareness and cross-species altruism among different animal species led me to the conclusion that there are many species of people on the planet.

 

[nomadchild]

Thank you. The realization stemmed from a show on the discovery channel actually. It related to studies on a number of birds (one particular group in Australia, can't remember the name, but it was I believe a species of parrot) that indicated the birds were self aware. Other articles revealing self-awareness and cross-species altruism among different animal species led me to the conclusion that there are many species of people on the planet.

Interesting, do you know what show this was?

 

[Duck]

Interesting, do you know what show this was?

Truthfully I cannot remember.

Looking at dr. Google, there are apparently a relatively limited number of creatures that pass the "mirror" test for self awareness. Elephants, the great apes (bonobos, chimpanzees, orangutans, gorillas and humans (older than 18 months)), European magpies, bottlenose Dolphins, and Orcas.

Another item that led me to my conclusion was tool use. Various great apes have been observed using tools in the wild (including spears for hunting) and so have members of the bird family Corvidae (wiki).

Cephalopods are also very intelligent, although studies have been more difficult to do and hence may be suspect. Octopus use tools and have shown problem solving skills, and their brain-to-body mass ration is similar to the great apes (other than humans).

So, the question becomes, do we assume that our fellow creatures are "dumb animals" because they don't use a language we understand, or do we give the benefit of the doubt? More and more, I lean toward the benefit of the doubt.

 

[nomadchild]

Truthfully I cannot remember.

Looking at dr. Google, there are apparently a relatively limited number of creatures that pass the "mirror" test for self awareness. Elephants, the great apes (bonobos, chimpanzees, orangutans, gorillas and humans (older than 18 months)), European magpies, bottlenose Dolphins, and Orcas.

Another item that led me to my conclusion was tool use. Various great apes have been observed using tools in the wild (including spears for hunting) and so have members of the bird family Corvidae (wiki).

Cephalopods are also very intelligent, although studies have been more difficult to do and hence may be suspect. Octopus use tools and have shown problem solving skills, and their brain-to-body mass ration is similar to the great apes (other than humans).

So, the question becomes, do we assume that our fellow creatures are "dumb animals" because they don't use a language we understand, or do we give the benefit of the doubt? More and more, I lean toward the benefit of the doubt.

Interesting I am going to look that up asap, unfortunately I have sailing today so it will be delayed. May I suggest a third option? Perhaps we delegate to science and the scientific method? It appears that they are more intelligent then we give them credit for.

 

[*Anne*]

The Inner World of Farm Animals

Great book.

 

[nomadchild]

The Inner World of Farm Animals

Great book.

Thanks for the book, I will look into it.