• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Most Basic Question...

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I've heard tell that the most "basic question" that we can try to answer is "why is there something rather than nothing?" (Other's might think the most basic question is "why won't my willie let me alone," but let's ignore that one for this discussion.)

It seems that many people cannot understand why there is a universe at all (I'm in that group -- I accept it, but don't understand it).

Everyone, as I understand it, agrees that "nothing comes from nothing." (I'm not sure, but I think that makes some kind of sense...but :shrug:

Yet, here we are, and all we curious humans want to know why and how we got here.

How do you approach this? Most of humanity (on the numbers, I'd say "virtually all" of humanity) has decided that there must be something "outside," something "not this," that caused our existence.

But on what basis do you suppose that? Is it wrong to ask, if our universe, our existence is impossible, "what makes an outside cause possible?" Where did it come from, why does it exist, what kind of thing is it that existed and plotted creation when there was -- literally -- nothing but it?

The question I am trying to ask -- for anyone who would like to try actually "philosophising," is simply this: "why can't something exist without something to cause it to exist, and yet the cause can exist without a cause?"

This is an exercise in philosophy. Do your best.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
I've heard tell that the most "basic question" that we can try to answer is "why is there something rather than nothing?" (Other's might think the most basic question is "why won't my willie let me alone," but let's ignore that one for this discussion.)

It seems that many people cannot understand why there is a universe at all (I'm in that group -- I accept it, but don't understand it).

Everyone, as I understand it, agrees that "nothing comes from nothing." (I'm not sure, but I think that makes some kind of sense...but :shrug:

Yet, here we are, and all we curious humans want to know why and how we got here.

How do you approach this? Most of humanity (on the numbers, I'd say "virtually all" of humanity) has decided that there must be something "outside," something "not this," that caused our existence.

But on what basis do you suppose that? Is it wrong to ask, if our universe, our existence is impossible, "what makes an outside cause possible?" Where did it come from, why does it exist, what kind of thing is it that existed and plotted creation when there was -- literally -- nothing but it?

The question I am trying to ask -- for anyone who would like to try actually "philosophising," is simply this: "why can't something exist without something to cause it to exist, and yet the cause can exist without a cause?"

This is an exercise in philosophy. Do your best.
Maybe existence does not exist.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
I'll give it a go. Absolute states are generally unstable. (I Ching philosophy.) Nothingness would be infinitely receptive (as opposed to resistant) to relativism (or relativity.)
 
Last edited:

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I've heard tell that the most "basic question" that we can try to answer is "why is there something rather than nothing?" (Other's might think the most basic question is "why won't my willie let me alone," but let's ignore that one for this discussion.)

It seems that many people cannot understand why there is a universe at all (I'm in that group -- I accept it, but don't understand it).

Everyone, as I understand it, agrees that "nothing comes from nothing." (I'm not sure, but I think that makes some kind of sense...but :shrug:

Yet, here we are, and all we curious humans want to know why and how we got here.

How do you approach this? Most of humanity (on the numbers, I'd say "virtually all" of humanity) has decided that there must be something "outside," something "not this," that caused our existence.

But on what basis do you suppose that? Is it wrong to ask, if our universe, our existence is impossible, "what makes an outside cause possible?" Where did it come from, why does it exist, what kind of thing is it that existed and plotted creation when there was -- literally -- nothing but it?

The question I am trying to ask -- for anyone who would like to try actually "philosophising," is simply this: "why can't something exist without something to cause it to exist, and yet the cause can exist without a cause?"

This is an exercise in philosophy. Do your best.
In my philosophy that's the one question we know we cannot answer. It can be phrased differently too.
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
The cause of something is self-evident. There doesn't have to be a huge explanation of why we exist, although I will say, it is in my teachings that we exist to create God's divinity, because if divinity exists, it can provide the most generosity to the most lifeforms as possible. That is my cause, and to me, it's self-evident, just like the cause to every person. Some people wish to live without a cause and that's fine too, but then, I would argue that their cause is simply to live, as life itself is cause for change.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
It's interesting to me that this is often considered one of those basic questions. I never ask it. I don't see the point in asking it. Lots of stuff is here, and I experience lots of stuff. To me, the natural and basic question to ask is "what is my relationship to all this stuff?" not "why is it here?" Who cares why it is here? It's here. I have a relationship with everything around me. What does that mean, and how do I navigate the reality of which I am a part?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I've heard tell that the most "basic question" that we can try to answer is "why is there something rather than nothing?" (Other's might think the most basic question is "why won't my willie let me alone," but let's ignore that one for this discussion.)

It seems that many people cannot understand why there is a universe at all (I'm in that group -- I accept it, but don't understand it).

Everyone, as I understand it, agrees that "nothing comes from nothing." (I'm not sure, but I think that makes some kind of sense...but :shrug:

Yet, here we are, and all we curious humans want to know why and how we got here.

How do you approach this? Most of humanity (on the numbers, I'd say "virtually all" of humanity) has decided that there must be something "outside," something "not this," that caused our existence.

But on what basis do you suppose that? Is it wrong to ask, if our universe, our existence is impossible, "what makes an outside cause possible?" Where did it come from, why does it exist, what kind of thing is it that existed and plotted creation when there was -- literally -- nothing but it?

The question I am trying to ask -- for anyone who would like to try actually "philosophising," is simply this: "why can't something exist without something to cause it to exist, and yet the cause can exist without a cause?"

This is an exercise in philosophy. Do your best.


"why is there something rather than nothing?"

Either something always existed or something came from nothing. Some believe one and some believe the other. However...We may never know

"(Other's might think the most basic question is "why won't my willie let me alone,"

I believe you missed phrased that. Shouldn't it be "why won't I let my willie alone"?:D
 
Last edited:

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I've heard tell that the most "basic question" that we can try to answer is "why is there something rather than nothing?" (Other's might think the most basic question is "why won't my willie let me alone," but let's ignore that one for this discussion.)

It seems that many people cannot understand why there is a universe at all (I'm in that group -- I accept it, but don't understand it).

Everyone, as I understand it, agrees that "nothing comes from nothing." (I'm not sure, but I think that makes some kind of sense...but :shrug:

Yet, here we are, and all we curious humans want to know why and how we got here.

How do you approach this? Most of humanity (on the numbers, I'd say "virtually all" of humanity) has decided that there must be something "outside," something "not this," that caused our existence.

But on what basis do you suppose that? Is it wrong to ask, if our universe, our existence is impossible, "what makes an outside cause possible?" Where did it come from, why does it exist, what kind of thing is it that existed and plotted creation when there was -- literally -- nothing but it?

The question I am trying to ask -- for anyone who would like to try actually "philosophising," is simply this: "why can't something exist without something to cause it to exist, and yet the cause can exist without a cause?"

This is an exercise in philosophy. Do your best.
Maybe that nothing for us, is really something for another.

It's clear our perception and tech has its own event horizon, it's limitations, where we cannot see ever smaller, nor ever larger

It's like we cannot see something with the naked eye, until we use a tool to bring the unseeable, what was once regarded as nothing, into something.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
In my nondual (God/Brahman and the universe are not two) Hindu philosophy the universe is a thought-form of Consciousness/Brahman. Brahman becomes the basis of reality, not the material universe.

But why does Brahman exist? That is the mystery that we can't get behind.
 

idea

Question Everything
What is conscience? The origin of thought, sentience- an emergent connected synergistic mind, aware, asleep, awake, alive, learning, growing, evolving changing - the underlying fabric of spacetime, death, birth, reborn, redie, cycles in cycles, TOE.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I've heard tell that the most "basic question" that we can try to answer is "why is there something rather than nothing?" (Other's might think the most basic question is "why won't my willie let me alone," but let's ignore that one for this discussion.)

It seems that many people cannot understand why there is a universe at all (I'm in that group -- I accept it, but don't understand it).

Everyone, as I understand it, agrees that "nothing comes from nothing." (I'm not sure, but I think that makes some kind of sense...but :shrug:

Yet, here we are, and all we curious humans want to know why and how we got here.

How do you approach this? Most of humanity (on the numbers, I'd say "virtually all" of humanity) has decided that there must be something "outside," something "not this," that caused our existence.

But on what basis do you suppose that? Is it wrong to ask, if our universe, our existence is impossible, "what makes an outside cause possible?" Where did it come from, why does it exist, what kind of thing is it that existed and plotted creation when there was -- literally -- nothing but it?

The question I am trying to ask -- for anyone who would like to try actually "philosophising," is simply this: "why can't something exist without something to cause it to exist, and yet the cause can exist without a cause?"

This is an exercise in philosophy. Do your best.
Every system has to have some "first principles" a.k.a. axioms. Likewise, reality has its "axioms", here called "brute facts". Existence is such a brute fact. It is useful for natural philosophy to formulate existence as a brute fact. All attempts to find more basic brute facts on which to build existence have failed.
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
I've heard tell that the most "basic question" that we can try to answer is "why is there something rather than nothing?" (Other's might think the most basic question is "why won't my willie let me alone," but let's ignore that one for this discussion.)

It seems that many people cannot understand why there is a universe at all (I'm in that group -- I accept it, but don't understand it).

Everyone, as I understand it, agrees that "nothing comes from nothing." (I'm not sure, but I think that makes some kind of sense...but :shrug:

Yet, here we are, and all we curious humans want to know why and how we got here.

How do you approach this? Most of humanity (on the numbers, I'd say "virtually all" of humanity) has decided that there must be something "outside," something "not this," that caused our existence.

But on what basis do you suppose that? Is it wrong to ask, if our universe, our existence is impossible, "what makes an outside cause possible?" Where did it come from, why does it exist, what kind of thing is it that existed and plotted creation when there was -- literally -- nothing but it?

The question I am trying to ask -- for anyone who would like to try actually "philosophising," is simply this: "why can't something exist without something to cause it to exist, and yet the cause can exist without a cause?"

This is an exercise in philosophy. Do your best.
Interesting read:

Why does anything exist? » AlwaysAsking.com
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I've heard tell that the most "basic question" that we can try to answer is "why is there something rather than nothing?" (Other's might think the most basic question is "why won't my willie let me alone," but let's ignore that one for this discussion.)

It seems that many people cannot understand why there is a universe at all (I'm in that group -- I accept it, but don't understand it).

Everyone, as I understand it, agrees that "nothing comes from nothing." (I'm not sure, but I think that makes some kind of sense...but :shrug:

Yet, here we are, and all we curious humans want to know why and how we got here.

How do you approach this? Most of humanity (on the numbers, I'd say "virtually all" of humanity) has decided that there must be something "outside," something "not this," that caused our existence.

But on what basis do you suppose that? Is it wrong to ask, if our universe, our existence is impossible, "what makes an outside cause possible?" Where did it come from, why does it exist, what kind of thing is it that existed and plotted creation when there was -- literally -- nothing but it?

The question I am trying to ask -- for anyone who would like to try actually "philosophising," is simply this: "why can't something exist without something to cause it to exist, and yet the cause can exist without a cause?"

This is an exercise in philosophy. Do your best.

We could theorise causes going back ad infinitum. A problem with that would be that there could not be an infinite number of causes or we would not be at this particular cause yet.
That tells us that there had to have been a first cause, something that existed without a cause.
This seems to tell us that this first cause is of a different nature to us and everything that has a cause.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
There must be an independent unconditioned reality or nothing could exist. Dependent causality leads to an unconditioned source. Whatever that may be I don't know, but I believe consciousness must be at the core of it in some form or another.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
To use a quote many will be familiar with - what is the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything? I will submit that, and for all others too (unless they simply believe some particular explanation), we just don't know - and perhaps never will know. But it still bugs me even if I can just accept I will never know. And no matter how many universes or realities might exist - perhaps explaining ours - there is still the issue of why there is something at all and where does this exist. But being mere humans why would we expect an answer? Such conceit. :oops:

Not really helpful as an answer though. :oops:

PS I will be expecting a medal from God for my humility. :D
 
Last edited:

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
I've heard tell that the most "basic question" that we can try to answer is "why is there something rather than nothing?" (Other's might think the most basic question is "why won't my willie let me alone," but let's ignore that one for this discussion.)

It seems that many people cannot understand why there is a universe at all (I'm in that group -- I accept it, but don't understand it).

Everyone, as I understand it, agrees that "nothing comes from nothing." (I'm not sure, but I think that makes some kind of sense...but :shrug:

Yet, here we are, and all we curious humans want to know why and how we got here.

How do you approach this? Most of humanity (on the numbers, I'd say "virtually all" of humanity) has decided that there must be something "outside," something "not this," that caused our existence.

But on what basis do you suppose that? Is it wrong to ask, if our universe, our existence is impossible, "what makes an outside cause possible?" Where did it come from, why does it exist, what kind of thing is it that existed and plotted creation when there was -- literally -- nothing but it?

The question I am trying to ask -- for anyone who would like to try actually "philosophising," is simply this: "why can't something exist without something to cause it to exist, and yet the cause can exist without a cause?"

This is an exercise in philosophy. Do your best.

The simple explanation is connected to humans having two centers of consciousness; the inner self and the ego. The inner self is much older. It is connected to our DNA and the evolutionary based operating system of the brain. It is the center of our collective human nature; the CPU that defines us as a species. All animals have an inner self; their own genetic center of consciousness.

Humans are unique on earth in that we also have a secondary center; the ego. The ego, which spun off from the inner self, is very new in terms of evolution. It, like a moon, consolidated somewhere about 6-10K years ago with the rise of civilization. The biblical claim of will and choice refers to the ego, having a secondary POV, that can be different from the inner self. It allow humans to choose natural or unnatural behavior, with unnatural both progressive or regressive to instinct. As an analogy, the small child may follow the parents until a certain age, then they strive to become more free standing. The same was true of the ego and inner self; paradise and then loss of paradise.

Whereas our inner self is already internally programmed via our human DNA, through evolution; natural human instinct, the ego is more externally programmed, through learned knowledge; culture and our unique experiences in culture and nature. The ego appears to have consolidated with the rise of civilization. Humans started to deny tens of thousands of years of evolutionary instinct as wanderers and gatherers; choice and will appear. The Bible dating actually coincides with the the rise of the secondary; ego, where one had a choice; God; inner self and instinct, or learned knowledge of good and evil.

By having two centers of consciousness, we can become split brained with each center going in a different way. For example, sex may be natural but culture imposes limits. There is an urge, from the inner self to unite the brain; find a balance like marriage. But since the inner self is often unconscious, it projects itself outwardly, into the environment, more in line with ego expectations; need to learn from the outside. Questions of existence and God are often connected to the inner self and the urge of the ego to find its creator, since the ego is a spin off from the inner self.

As a loose analogy, cover one eye and look at the world. We can see the same things as two eyes, but we will loose our depth perception, which gives reality its 3-D nature. Cause and affect is 2-D. If we uncover the other eye, we will see the same things, but now there is more fidelity to reality; stereo speakers; 3-D. Both eyes and ears can see or hear the same sources, but at slightly different angles, adds depth to outer reality. Deeper questions of existence, beyond the ego; beyond learned knowledge and cause and affect are sensed, since the other eye and ear of the inner self periodically opens up, to give us an intuitive sense of what may be.

The inner self and natural human instinct, which came from evolution, is a time average perception of hard reality over eons. It is not like the ego which is more fly by night, based on the latest cultural fad. The inner self; its own eyes and ears, have evolved within eternity, in essence. It has this deeper perception, that the ego can sometime sense, but which it expects to find ourself itself; projected into science and philosophy. Developing higher human potential will require the ego rediscover inner self. This is often symbolizes as God living among men. A good primer Book is the "Undiscovered Self" by Carl Jung.

If you ever wondered how they build the pyramids, with primitive science, but with so much precision, it was not the projection of Aliens often used by the ego. Rather it was the inner self becoming fully conscious; do the conceptual and data crunching. The value of the ego, is its secondary POV has added a new type of data to the evolution of the inner self; more stereo, with its operating system of the inner self able to advance, quicker, in quantum steps, with newer fidelity.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
We could theorise causes going back ad infinitum. A problem with that would be that there could not be an infinite number of causes or we would not be at this particular cause yet.
That tells us that there had to have been a first cause, something that existed without a cause.
This seems to tell us that this first cause is of a different nature to us and everything that has a cause.

That seems weird because then in a finite amount of time in the past there was something that existed without a cause. If that thing was infinite then you have the same infinity problem.
If that thing was a being then that really stretches the probability, why would a being or God just exist in complete nothingness and consciousness is complex. A first cause should be something simple like pure potentiality (which in a way is what particles are made of).
You are also assuming causality, the big bang created spacetime which has a direction of time, that doesn't exist everywhere.
You don't need to go back ad infinitum if time does not exist outside our universe. But there are infinities in numbers and larger infinities between each number, we can still get past them. There isn't one universal time, relativity demonstrated this, so that isn't a problem.


But the question is why is there something and not nothing, not the Kalam cosmological argument? If the Kalam doesn't support Zeus or Inana than it doesn't support Yahweh either. The question is why does anything exist?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I've heard tell that the most "basic question" that we can try to answer is "why is there something rather than nothing?" (Other's might think the most basic question is "why won't my willie let me alone," but let's ignore that one for this discussion.)

It seems that many people cannot understand why there is a universe at all (I'm in that group -- I accept it, but don't understand it).

Everyone, as I understand it, agrees that "nothing comes from nothing." (I'm not sure, but I think that makes some kind of sense...but :shrug:

Yet, here we are, and all we curious humans want to know why and how we got here.

How do you approach this? Most of humanity (on the numbers, I'd say "virtually all" of humanity) has decided that there must be something "outside," something "not this," that caused our existence.

But on what basis do you suppose that? Is it wrong to ask, if our universe, our existence is impossible, "what makes an outside cause possible?" Where did it come from, why does it exist, what kind of thing is it that existed and plotted creation when there was -- literally -- nothing but it?

The question I am trying to ask -- for anyone who would like to try actually "philosophising," is simply this: "why can't something exist without something to cause it to exist, and yet the cause can exist without a cause?"

This is an exercise in philosophy. Do your best.
The simple answer is this: we can know THAT we don't know, without knowing WHAT we don't know.

That we can formulate a question even though we are unable to formulate the answer implies to nearly all of us that there IS an answer. And it does so because nearly all the questions that we are able to ask do have answers of one kind or another, that we do find sooner or later.

So the answer to your question is that we humans are built by existence, itself, to suppose that some sort of supra-existence exists, or has existed, even though that at present would appear to be a logically incoherent supposition. We believe it because it's how we are wired. And we are wired that way because that's what has worked for us thus far, existentially speaking.

So I look at it this way: existence itself is telling us that there is more to it than just existence, itself.
 
Top