The myriad proofs for the exsitence of God

[cottage]

Who's gonna tell the Jews that they've been merged into Christianity? Not it.

Suppose I'll have to do it then!

Joking apart, I include the jews as they worship the same God.

 

[sandandfoam]

dont be so simple

lol. That works both ways.

 

[TheGodless1]

It is correct to say He is 'hands-off', and immaterial, but that doesn't mean He doesn't exist.

Hands off and immaterial doesnt mean he doesnt exist...in fact that is the definition of Deism... A God who creates but lets mankind live their own lives...
Deism is a smaller sect of religion but it is still a belief in God

 

[Willamena]

Joking apart, I include the jews as they worship the same God.

And your other 2 don't?

 

[dorsk188]

This is true. "God dunnit" has as much aesthetic appeal as Occam's Razor. (By the way, what is the "clear process" for how existence exists?)

It depends on what you mean by the question.

"Why is the universe the way it is?" This is fairly well understood going back as far as the smallest fraction of a second after the Universe came into existence (or at least began expanding). Before that (if "before" has any real meaning in this context, which it may not) we currently don't know. And that's fine. It's a known unknown. But that's no excuse to plug fairies in there. As I mentioned in an earlier post, fairy explanations have often been overturned through more research.

"Why is there a universe at all?" Tricky question, but the basic anthropic principle makes it somewhat a non-question. If there was no universe, then we couldn't ask the question. It just is. I can ask you "does the king of France wear a wig?", but there is no answer to that question. It's possible to form questions that cannot be answered. Once again, fairies don't actually explain this. It just makes you feel like you've filled a hole, but you've not gained any understanding.

If it really was fairies, then we should be able to discover that, and I would welcome an understanding of them. There just simply isn't any reason to suspect fairies did it.

 

[sandandfoam]

It's a known unknown.

Sounds exactly like what I call God.

 

[dorsk188]

I guess it's the distinction between universe and what makes universe.

Why must a universe be made? Why can't it make itself?

It's possible that there is something beyond our universe that spawns universes in the way that our universe spawns quantum foam. Or our universe could be a simulation in a sufficiently complex computer in a universe with laws completely unlike our own.

But it's all just idle speculation, like speculation about God. The only thing that can be said about it is that we don't know. As for the possibilities of other universes, then there actually is research being done to explore that.

 

[dorsk188]

Sounds exactly like what I call God.

Then you have nothing constructive to add. Just wave your arms around, wiggle your fingers, and go "OoooOOoo".

Alright, fine. But you didn't learn anything. You just resigned yourself to ignorance.

EDIT: And the problem is that throughout history, people have been content to call all kinds of things "God". Disease, hurricanes, infant mortality, etc. Only when we sought out the REAL cause did we learn anything about them, and in those cases learned how to predict/prevent them.

 

[sandandfoam]

Alright, fine. But you didn't learn anything. You just resigned yourself to ignorance.

LOL, how charmingly condescending.

 

[dorsk188]

LOL, how charmingly condescending.

How amusingly evasive.

 

[Willamena]

Why must a universe be made? Why can't it make itself?

The self-creating virgin goddess.

It's possible that there is something beyond our universe that spawns universes in the way that our universe spawns quantum foam. Or our universe could be a simulation in a sufficiently complex computer in a universe with laws completely unlike our own.

And that's the cause-and-effect version of "creation".

But it's all just idle speculation, like speculation about God. The only thing that can be said about it is that we don't know. As for the possibilities of other universes, then there actually is research being done to explore that.

The image of "creator" isn't one of cause-and-effect as much as substance. What is the substance of existence itself?

We can say "I don't know," and we can speculate, but if we place knowledge firmly with the scientific experiement then we lay more than half the existent world open to this "I don't know".

 

[dorsk188]

The self-creating virgin goddess.

Because the universe is made in (wo)man's image, right?

We can say "I don't know," and we can speculate, but if we place knowledge firmly with the scientific experiement then we lay more than half the existent world open to this "I don't know".

Anything else is intellectually dishonest. Claiming you know something you don't know, believing you understand it on a "deeper level", giving it labels like "God". Where does it get you?

 

[Adso]

I've been asking for evidence for a long time, and no one has ever come through for me. I'd genuinely love to hear yours.

Which type of evidence? If you mean evidence which has been approached in a scientific methodology, I will probably number amongst those who disappoint.

I'd tweak what MSizer said in this way. The diamond, whether it exists or not, is immaterial. If no one ever sees the diamond, then why does it matter if it exists or not? Existence of the diamond is very unlikely, so its best to remain skeptical.

The only God that may exist in our Universe is a deist "hands-off" type that doesn't get involved in our affairs. By all appearances, he doesn't exist. He's immaterial.

I think the analogy of the diamond to God is inadequate. If God was simply an inactive and invisible object which had absolutely no effect on us whatsoever, then it really would be unimportant whether or not God existed. It's illogical though to assume that He does not exist (or is simply trivial) based solely on your conjecture as evidence.

 

[cottage]

And your other 2 don't?

------------------

No.

 

[dorsk188]

Which type of evidence? If you mean evidence which has been approached in a scientific methodology, I will probably number amongst those who disappoint.

Any evidence. Any evidence at all.

It's illogical though to assume that He does not exist (or is simply trivial) based solely on your conjecture as evidence.

It's perfectly logical to remain skeptical, which is what most atheists are. Parallel universes are not proven, and I don't believe in them, either. But I don't assume they don't exist. I'm waiting for evidence. Any evidence that actually suggests that they exist. If you've got evidence for God, then I'd like to hear it.

 

[Willamena]

Because the universe is made in (wo)man's image, right?

No. . . The image implies a symbol historically employed in myth as that of "birth".

Anything else is intellectually dishonest. Claiming you know something you don't know, believing you understand it on a "deeper level", giving it labels like "God". Where does it get you?

I agree entirely. Where does it get you?

 

[TheGodless1]

Doesn't existence become defined by what can be seen, touched, smelled, or detected? it is therefore it exists. I have never seen God, felt God, smelled God, Touched God, so to me (and this is ONLY to me) he doesnt exist. Existence doesnt mean tangible because you dont really touch air (or do you? o.0) But through scientific devices and technology we know it is there. We know it consists of invisible gasses. But noone has touched God except in the Bible and Gods have talked to many people in Mythology. In Greek Mythology they were all over the place. How did we become so unimportant we dont deserve their direction now? Are they too frightened to show their faces in this day and age of the present? Or is it a possibility that he just never existed at all except in peoples minds...in a superstitious time that has long come and gone?

 

[dorsk188]

I agree entirely. Where does it get you?

Like I said: if you can show me any reason why fairies are involved in the garden other than "we don't know", then I'll believe in fairies. If you can show me any reason why God is involved in the universe, then I'll believe in God. But until then, the most reasonable position is lack of belief.

 

[dorsk188]

Doesn't existence become defined by what can be seen, touched, smelled, or detected? it is therefore it exists.

Well, I'll always leave open the possibility of "necessary but undetectable". For example there is dark energy, which we don't know what it is, but we know it probably does exist. It's possible that there are things that must exist, based on our observations, but cannot be directly detected.

 

[Willamena]

Like I said: if you can show me any reason why fairies are involved in the garden other than "we don't know", then I'll believe in fairies. If you can show me any reason why God is involved in the universe, then I'll believe in God. But until then, the most reasonable position is lack of belief.

Similarly, if you're interested in discussing "god", I'll be around.