The Nature of Ghosts

[Rick O'Shez]

Does everything need an explanation?

No, but it's good to have one.

 

[rocala]

Whenever paranormalists talk about "ghosts" I've yet to encounter a case where they meant anything other than dead humans. Along with that, there are also other metaphysical assumptions they make. Those who use terminology like "ghosts" tend to have particular ideas about how afterlives work that aren't present in all worldviews, for example. If your worldview doesn't have those assumptions, there are plenty of other explanations. The otherworlds and animistic perspectives in general aren't considered by your typical paranormalist.

Honestly, you'd have to get a lot more specific with what you mean by "supernatural" and "supernatural experiences" for me to say much more on this topic. I have no idea what you mean by those terms, and they're meta-categories that could house countless phenomena under their umbrella.

Hi Quintessence, firstly I am not a paranormalist. Secondly I for one have come across several 'ghost stories' involving dogs, a few cats and one bear. Others refer to phenomena bearing no similarity to biological life as we know it. I have read of 'possesions' by entities that have never set foot on the physical earth and others that were caused by skilled, powerful, living individuals.

I do not have "particular ideas about how afterlives work" if I did I would probably not have posed the question.

For the sake of argument this enquiry might be confined to the examples given, hauntings and possessions. These alone indicate an aspect of existence that is beyond the norm. In no way do I suggest or believe that humanity is of special importance in such matters.

 

[rocala]

Can I ask what SE you are thinking of?

Hi Robert, hopefully my last post will answer your question.

 

[picnic]

Are you aware in paranormal research that what is found particularly important are those events that can not be explained away as hallucinations; like knowledge of specific things not learned through normal channels; multiple independent witnesses. etc.. I don't restrict my consideration to just my own experiences. I have by now heard 100's of strong cases for which a 'hallucination' hypothesis does not make sense.

There are also "illusions" where a real visual stimulus can be combined with imagination to become bizarre. A group of people observing something confusing often chatter among themselves and create an illusionary observation that is consistent among multiple witnesses. Probably the best kind of multiple witness observation will have witnesses from separate locations who do not interact at all.

One thing I've found with UFOs is that the evidence often isn't as good as it seems at first. I have never looked into the evidence for ghosts, but I assume it is that way too. It's frustrating, because I would like an answer to these mysteries.

 

[George-ananda]

There are also "illusions" where a real visual stimulus can be combined with imagination to become bizarre. A group of people observing something confusing often chatter among themselves and create an illusionary observation that is consistent among multiple witnesses. Probably the best kind of multiple witness observation will have witnesses from separate locations who do not interact at all.

Paranormal investigators are aware of all these things.

One thing I've found with UFOs is that the evidence often isn't as good as it seems at first. I have never looked into the evidence for ghosts, but I assume it is that way too. It's frustrating, because I would like an answer to these mysteries.

Well. I have looked into 'ghostly phenomena' and one thing I am certain of is something not understood by science is definitely going on. And I believe there are experts in that field that can tell us a lot about what is going on

 

[Politesse]

Well, everything is "psychological"; our brain processes and filters everything it encounters. Simply invoking brain does not explain the stimulus.

The few ghost encounters I have had are mysterious to me, and I'm quite willing to entertain a reasonable explanation for them. But I have no particular reason to asusme that "it must be a hallucination" unless I had some other reason to believe I was hallucinating.

In the case of, for instance, the floating orbs I used to see at the foot of my bed when I was a child, these seem pretty obviously the result of sleep paralysis. That's a well-documented phenomenon, described extensively in scientific literature in terms that upon thinking about it, it seems pretty obvious that my symptoms fit.

But the ghost car I and a friend encountered in the backwoods of Utah? Most of the time when people try to invent a "rational explanation" for that one, their schemas get quite elaborate, and less than convincing.

 

[George-ananda]

But the ghost car I and a friend encountered in the backwoods of Utah? Most of the time when people try to invent a "rational explanation" for that one, their schemas get quite elaborate, and less than convincing.

And I also continue with the thought that what are the chances of an inside-the-box explanation not just for your experience, but for every so-called 'ghostly/weird' event in the history of mankind? Millions/billions? At some point it becomes more reasonable to believe things outside-the-box of materialist thinking do really exist. I'm there in that belief and have my own reasons for accepting this as a certainty in my personal worldview.

 

[ak.yonathan]

Don't you believe in ghosts?

 

[rocala]

I for one do. I do not know what they are but I have experienced enough to know that something so far unexplained can occur.

 

[ak.yonathan]

I for one do. I do not know what they are but I have experienced enough to know that something so far unexplained can occur.

Ghosts are the manifestations of a person's consciousness after their biological bodies have ceased to function, at least that's what I believe. Ghosts represent the inability of the biological body to keep on functioning indefinitely so said consciousness has to find a new way to continue to exist. Robots do not become ghosts because their bodies can potentially live forever.

 

[rocala]

Ghosts are the manifestations of a person's consciousness after their biological bodies have ceased to function, at least that's what I believe. Ghosts represent the inability of the biological body to keep on functioning indefinitely so said consciousness has to find a new way to continue to exist. Robots do not become ghosts because their bodies can potentially live forever.

An interesting idea, but does this apply to all ghostly sightings or just the ones which resemble humans?

 

[ak.yonathan]

An interesting idea, but does this apply to all ghostly sightings or just the ones which resemble humans?

I think that my theory would apply to anything that is self-aware, if that's what you're asking.

 

[rocala]

Ghosts are the manifestations of a person's consciousness after their biological bodies have ceased to function, at least that's what I believe. Ghosts represent the inability of the biological body to keep on functioning indefinitely so said consciousness has to find a new way to continue to exist. Robots do not become ghosts because their bodies can potentially live forever.

This is very interesting. Do you have any ideas on how long this phenomena might continue and does it rely on a known form of energy?

 

[ak.yonathan]

This is very interesting. Do you have any ideas on how long this phenomena might continue and does it rely on a known form of energy?

I think that this phenomena will continue for as long as there are people being born. I don't think that ghosts use any form of energy that is known to mankind at the present time. I don't think that ghosts are physical in nature, henceforth they are not within the scope of our physical theories.

 

[ak.yonathan]

No, but it's good to have one.

Everything does have an explanation, trust me, whether we know it or not.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I think there is something to what Stephen Hawking said.... "There could be shadow galaxies, shadow stars and even shadow people..."

 

[Runewolf1973]

If the phenomena exists, it absolutely must be utilizing some energy source. Consider that matter neither truly lives nor dies, it is interactive via fundamental forces. There is really no such thing as "living matter", only interactive matter, therefore there is really no such thing as "death" or "dying", only continual interaction in one form or another. What we see as ghosts may just be another interactive form matter/energy takes on.

 

[George-ananda]

I do not know what they are but I have experienced enough to know that something so far unexplained can occur.

If you read up on the serious experts in this field they do seem to know some stuff. For example, perhaps one of the more common types is called 'residual haunting' where the strong emotions that occurred in a place leave some imprint in the environment that keeps replaying vaguely. These types of ghosts may not have souls but are just shells of the former person. Other types of hauntings do involve activity living (but non-physical) entities; some past-humans and some not. It's all fascinating and again there are serious people you can read that have made some sense of it all.

 

[ak.yonathan]

If the phenomena exists, it absolutely must be utilizing some energy source. Consider that matter neither truly lives nor dies, it is interactive via fundamental forces. There is really no such thing as "living matter", only interactive matter, therefore there is really no such thing as "death" or "dying", only continual interaction in one form or another. What we see as ghosts may just be another interactive form matter/energy takes on.

Yes, I do think so, just not any that is known to mankind at present.

 

[Iti oj]

So why do you rule-out hallucinations for the other cases if you know they have happened in a few cases? I've had hallucinations before too, so I don't intend to be disrespectful. I confronted a similar problem of deciding what was a hallucination and what was a mystery.

why i completely discount unverifiable personal experiences, mine included/especially