The Nature of Islam

[Alex_G]

Why is there such associated violence with the Islamic world? Does its framework as a religion easily allow and facilitate the extremist mentality towards violent solutions? As an interesting comparison, one might point out the distinct lack of violent Tibetan Buddhist extremists even in light of all their brutal hardships and sufferings.

In a rational assessment of world views, with hopes that those which further human development and nourish well-being be adopted, is Islam coming up short?

 

[beenie]

IMO...

Because Islam as a religion includes politics, culture, jurisprudence, etc., all within the religion itself, it seems that all actions taken by Muslims are blamed on the religion, when it's often driven by politics (under the guise of religion).

 

[sandandfoam]

Badshah Khan.
Islam is a religion of peace.

 

[Kerr]

Why is there such associated violence with the Islamic world? Does its framework as a religion easily allow and facilitate the extremist mentality towards violent solutions? As an interesting comparison, one might point out the distinct lack of violent Tibetan Buddhist extremists even in light of all their brutal hardships and sufferings.

In a rational assessment of world views, with hopes that those which further human development and nourish well-being be adopted, is Islam coming up short?

I dont think Muslims are more prone to violence then anyone else. Its just that the Muslim extremists knows how to catch peoples attention and have the resources to do so.

 

[Alex_G]

IMO...

Because Islam as a religion includes politics, culture, jurisprudence, etc., all within the religion itself, it seems that all actions taken by Muslims are blamed on the religion, when it's often driven by politics (under the guise of religion).

Sure, i understand that many factors, say in the middle east might be cumulatively responsible for the violence and atrocities that occur, with political and econimic issues being among them. But i wonder how the given religious scripture itself contributes, if at all. It strikes me from the outside that there is a very good chance that it does, which makes me uneasy. I admit that my knoledge of the religion is far from comprehensive, so im deff interested to hear what people have to say especially those who subscribe.

 

[Alex_G]

Badshah Khan.
Islam is a religion of peace.

It sort of strikes me as not a religion that promotes peace, at least not as a core principle. I dont quite understand how violent extremist interpretation could be quite so easy if it were indeed build on a principle of peace, to embrace a martyrdom mentality and a demonising of 'infidel' culture. Whats most worrying is that many of the extremists were well educated, and reasonable well off, limiting the likely contribution of other factors, such as poverty, ignorance etc.
I know that you will find crazy people everywhere if you look hard enough, and i dont mean to tar everyone of the faith the same, moderation is always better than extremism, im just highlighting the emergence of violence, and probing the idea that the religion itelf might be somewhat facilitative?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

If you were to change Islam to Abrahamic Faiths I think you would be more accurate. The God of Abraham was a vengeful God full of wrath. Christians like to think they are all about peace but their record leaves much to be desired. The source could very well be the environment that the originating peoples existed in for it was a harsh one.

 

[Alex_G]

I dont think Muslims are more prone to violence then anyone else. Its just that the Muslim extremists knows how to catch peoples attention and have the resources to do so.

Is the attention not caught precisely because of the extreme nature of the violence? In reiterating my example in the OP, would you not think that a devout Muslim might be more likely to demonstrate violent behaviour than say a Buddhist monk, at least statistically speaking? (Because of course the are peaceful people in both camps, and i want to ensure im not being misunderstood as to demonise a whole people).

I often feel that maybe the taboo surrounding open discussion of religion and ideas spawned of religion has somewhat blurred them all together morally, to be treated as equal. And clearly i think there are many differences that are important to look at and investigate. In striving for a world view that maximises well being and human development, some world views will fall short of others, and its quite healthy imo, to assess things in this way, highlighting possible things that cause or allow for avoidable suffering.

 

[Alex_G]

If you were to change Islam to Abrahamic Faiths I think you would be more accurate. The God of Abraham was a vengeful God full of wrath. Christians like to think they are all about peace but their record leaves much to be desired. The source could very well be the environment that the originating peoples existed in for it was a harsh one.

Yes, sure i agree. The thread was focused more towards Islam in part because of my relative unfamiliarity in comparison to Christianity, such that i hoped to maybe learn some new perspectives and insights. Not that i meant to somehow highlight Islam as fundamentally on its own in the world as something that might facilitate a more violent mentality. Apologies if it seemed as such.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Yes, sure i agree. The thread was focused more towards Islam in part because of my relative unfamiliarity in comparison to Christianity, such that i hoped to maybe learn some new perspectives and insights. Not that i meant to somehow highlight Islam as fundamentally on its own in the world as something that might facilitate a more violent mentality. Apologies if it seemed as such.

No apologies needed, no offense taken, here anyway. But if you're looking for the root of Islam then you have to go back to Abraham.

 

[Iti oj]

Why is there such associated violence with the Islamic world? Does its framework as a religion easily allow and facilitate the extremist mentality towards violent solutions? As an interesting comparison, one might point out the distinct lack of violent Tibetan Buddhist extremists even in light of all their brutal hardships and sufferings.

In a rational assessment of world views, with hopes that those which further human development and nourish well-being be adopted, is Islam coming up short?

Its all socio economics and regional culture. Islam like many other religions is a tool other people use to push their evil agendas.

 

[Kerr]

Is the attention not caught precisely because of the extreme nature of the violence? In reiterating my example in the OP, would you not think that a devout Muslim might be more likely to demonstrate violent behaviour than say a Buddhist monk, at least statistically speaking? (Because of course the are peaceful people in both camps, and i want to ensure im not being misunderstood as to demonise a whole people).

Maybe the Bhuddist monk would be more likely to be peaceful, I really dont know any statistics and I am generally biased to Bhuddisms favor . But it is an unfair comparisment, because a Bhuddist monk and a devout Muslim does not have to be extremists and extremists tend to find reasons for violence no matter what faith they are off.

I often feel that maybe the taboo surrounding open discussion of religion and ideas spawned of religion has somewhat blurred them all together morally, to be treated as equal. And clearly i think there are many differences that are important to look at and investigate. In striving for a world view that maximises well being and human development, some world views will fall short of others, and its quite healthy imo, to assess things in this way, highlighting possible things that cause or allow for avoidable suffering.

I am not against discussing different world views. I am against the idea that Islam is somehow inheritly more violent. There is just too much margin off error to make that assertion.

 

[Kerr]

Its all socio economics and regional culture. Islam like many other religions is a tool other people use to push their evil agendas.

Exactly.

 

[Sakeenah]

Why is there such associated violence with the Islamic world? Does its framework as a religion easily allow and facilitate the extremist mentality towards violent solutions? As an interesting comparison, one might point out the distinct lack of violent Tibetan Buddhist extremists even in light of all their brutal hardships and sufferings.

In a rational assessment of world views, with hopes that those which further human development and nourish well-being be adopted, is Islam coming up short?

Islam doesn't allow violence or extremism..and most of what is going on in the muslim countries is because of politics(corrupt leaders) and poverty..and often this and lack of knowledge on islam leads a minority to extremism.
The majority of the muslims in the muslims country who practice islam are people who have positive impact on the society and many of them promote justice and peace.
But It's possible that those who think Islam promotes violence are influenced by the media..because the media often mentions the minority who promote violence..because it's more 'interesting'

 

[Alex_G]

No apologies needed, no offense taken, here anyway. But if you're looking for the root of Islam then you have to go back to Abraham.

I do acknowledge the shared origin of the Abrahamic religions, and with that the host of similarities that likely follow. But also im aware of the differences too, spurring me to probe a little into Islam specifically.
In consideration of a mentality that permeates almost all religions, that of unyielding and unquestioning belief in old scriptural writings, i see the potential for danger behaviour through lack of rational and honest thought. I see Islam being mentioned as a religion of peace quite often, which is why i ask frankly about it in particular, with respects to associated violence.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I do acknowledge the shared origin of the Abrahamic religions, and with that the host of similarities that likely follow. But also im aware of the differences too, spurring me to probe a little into Islam specifically.
In consideration of a mentality that permeates almost all religions, that of unyielding and unquestioning belief in old scriptural writings, i see the potential for danger behaviour through lack of rational and honest thought. I see Islam being mentioned as a religion of peace quite often, which is why i ask frankly about it in particular, with respects to associated violence.

Same with Christianity. Christianity has always said it was of peace but only recently walked the talk. Historically it was the sword rather than peace that won the day. I believe this all goes back to Abraham's God not accepting competition. Other religions were perfectly happy to coexists with everybody else. But Yahweh demanded all other Gods be rejected. It is from this that the violence of all of the Abrahamic Faiths originates.

 

[Alex_G]

Its all socio economics and regional culture. Islam like many other religions is a tool other people use to push their evil agendas.

Exactly.

I mean its evident that there is a distinct lack of violence from the people of Tibet, as compared with the middle East, even though they have endured quite equal hardship and brutality. If violent behaviour was fundamentally down to local political and economic reasons alone you would expect similar responses, but you dont get that. I mean for me its relatively convincing that religion plays quite a major role in how people behave, and its no accident that the Buddhists are far more peace orientated.

The word religion is like 'sport' really, it describes a whole host of things that can differ widely from one and other, and i think noticing and highlighting these differences is useful and healthy rather than backing away because its taboo and consider all religion equally morally defensible in principle. Some world views will be better at promoting human flourishing and well being than others. It strikes me that Islam demonstrates features that arnt promoting the best in terms of human well being, happyness and flourishing, and that warrants change.

 

[Alex_G]

Same with Christianity. Christianity has always said it was of peace but only recently walked the talk. Historically it was the sword rather than peace that won the day. I believe this all goes back to Abraham's God not accepting competition. Other religions were perfectly happy to coexists with everybody else. But Yahweh demanded all other Gods be rejected. It is from this that the violence of all of the Abrahamic Faiths originates.

Yahweh should go on trial, if we ever had a blind hope of finding him

 

[Alex_G]

Islam doesn't allow violence or extremism..and most of what is going on in the muslim countries is because of politics(corrupt leaders) and poverty..and often this and lack of knowledge on islam leads a minority to extremism.
The majority of the muslims in the muslims country who practice islam are people who have positive impact on the society and many of them promote justice and peace.
But It's possible that those who think Islam promotes violence are influenced by the media..because the media often mentions the minority who promote violence..because it's more 'interesting'

Well i might beg to differ with respects to not allowing violence or extremism. Its literally a reality.
Of course economics, education and politics all play a part in the civil unrest, and violent behaviour patterns, but i am highly suspicious that the ideologies of Islam provide a synergistic effect here, and are not truly innocent. In my mind my tolerances are low with respects to a religion that seems ill matched with human wellbeing, and if life can be improved for people, i would champion change.

 

[Pegg]

any system built around 'crime and punishment' is going to be violent and the culture will be one where violence is acceptable because its part of the system....hence why its acceptable to slap ones wife if they misbehave

Judaism was the same in its day, people were stoned and beaten for crimes and Islam is the same today because it adopted those same 'crime and punishment' laws.