The need for a grand purpose/meaning

[Know it all.]

I see an absolute need for this. I see an absolute need for us to be immortal souls that can live in eternal bliss in the afterlife. Some people would say there is no need for that and the life we have here instead is all we need. I don't see it that way.

If we are nothing more than life forms that are just here to live and forever perish, then I see no reason to have a family or to cherish this life if all we are is just life forms that live and forever perish. If this is all we are, then we as human beings were better off having never been born in the first place. This life and this entire universe was better off having never come into being. This being the one and only life I will ever have is not any reason at all to me to cherish it and make the best of it.

To me, a person who is able to cherish this life and make the best of it in the absence of this grand purpose/meaning is nothing more than a simple minded animal. Nothing more than a simple minded creature that goes about its daily life that says:

"Welp, I will enjoy and cherish this life while it lasts. When I die, I die and that is it."

That, to me, is a simple minded animal not concerned with any grand purpose/meaning. But as for me, I am nothing like that. I am on a much higher level than that. I am able to see the big picture for what it is (the grand scheme of things). That being, if this is all we are as human beings, then there is no reason for any of it.

This existence is just nonsense and to carry on with your life and have reason to cherish and enjoy this life is just absurd nonsense like that of a simple minded animal and nothing more.

I have a brother who is just like this and he is severely pessimistic about life and of course rejects all religion or anything contrary to his rigid denials of God.

So you are not alone.

My brother says things like there is no reason to go into space or even to be interested in other worlds because he will be dead long before that, and no reason to worry about hurting the planet earth because he will be dead before it could ever affect his self, and I say he has two daughters (my nieces) and he says they too will be dead in due short time.

My brother and I are very similar to each other in looks and in temperament and this is our one (1) division in that I see absolute proof of a real Creator God and I have huge reasons to embrace the morality of life, while he adamantly rejects all of that.

One time around 1991 my defiant and mocking brother decided to playfully conjure up a "Demon from Hell" (his words) and so I agreed with him. He was surprised that I agreed as he expected me to scare away from it but I did not. As such in a very short time a truly ugly and dirty and wicked woman came to us and she went after him talking horrible stuff like telling him to turn against me and it is hard to explain the details but she was in fact a Demon from Hell and we both knew it. So we had to slip away from her and in time (a few weeks) my brother started making excuses that she was just some local tramp or just a coincidence, and so in about a year he was completely denying that the event ever even happened and he did not remember it very well and of course he decided that it just was not true.

What I find is that every person in the entire world has seen or experienced a Ghost or Spirit or call it whatever and people like myself accept that reality while many other people simply refuse to accept or believe and that is why we call non believers to be deniers and in denial.

Since there are so many people like this then I see this as a real form of abuse that our evil society imposes on people - especially in white Christianity Countries, because our schools are teaching the people garbage and Godless trash and so denial has become the force of the dominating class of people who want to do wrong and want to live in sin and so denial is the only weapon they have.

What you "MattMVS7" need to do is to understand your own brainwashing and then overcome it.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Interesting choice of analogy, as there is no such thing as a star that will shine for all eternity. Furthermore, incidentally, the brightest and hottest stars have the shortest life spans.

Well, you know where I was trying to get at at least.

 

[Riverwolf]

Well, you know where I was trying to get at at least.

And yet in the kind of attitude you display, I see plenty of equivalence to real-life high-mass (i.e., bright and hot) stars.

I caution against such certainty that you could never get sick of something.

Because, consider also this with eternity: after nearly uncountable years, the night sky (rather, just "the sky" since there won't be any day anymore) will be completely black. No stars whatsoever to shine.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

And yet in the kind of attitude you display, I see plenty of equivalence to real-life high-mass (i.e., bright and hot) stars.

I caution against such certainty that you could never get sick of something.

Because, consider also this with eternity: after nearly uncountable years, the night sky (rather, just "the sky" since there won't be any day anymore) will be completely black. No stars whatsoever to shine.

The love I have for others, for example, is something that will never die out. I will never grow sick and tired of that.

 

[LuisDantas]

@MattMVS7 , you sure state things on this matter with a lot of emphasis.

With all due respect, you are only human (far as I can tell).

 

[Riverwolf]

The love I have for others, for example, is something that will never die out. I will never grow sick and tired of that.

That's nice. But that's an abstract concept that refers to a myriad of various emotions, bundled up in a single English word. I fail to see what it has to do with eternity.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

Or maybe they are just simply not obsessed like I am about forever dying. The idea that I will could forever die one day is a constant obsession that prevents me from cherishing, finding meaning, joy, and happiness in this life. So maybe it is that instead. Maybe others just aren't obsessed like me.

Hello, Matt ~
I think you've hit your own nail smack dab on its head by identifying the real issue here, i.e., your fear of death. But take a deep breath and calm your heart's pounding; one can usually "take apart" a fear, shine the light of knowledge on its parts and dispense with the darkness altogether. Fear is NO match for knowledge. It withers in the face of it.

The problem is both simple and complex and everybody faces it until they don't: it's determining for themselves and remembering, settling, living and moving comfortably in the world and its affairs with the answer to this question:

Who am I, really? Am I immortal soul bound up in a mortal human body? Or am I a human body (or mind or intellect or ego or the adjunct du jour) subject to death and decay who possesses an eternally alive soul? The body is assured death from the instant it's born, that is the inevitable outcome of birth itself. My teacher used to say, "If you don't want to die, don't be born!" (How not to be born is a whole 'nother subject.) But, anyway, the soul identifying itself by the name of his body, Matt, THAT cannot die. It was never born. It existed, it exists, it will continue to exist. Begin to claim your rightful identity with this Truth, embrace it if it rings true to you. When your mind conjures up shreds of the fear again, remind yourself once more of Who you are in reality, an eternal Spark of the Divine Fire called "God," or whatever Name rings your bell in a language that makes sense to you.

Bliss absolute is absolutely your birthright! Along with Truth and Awareness (consciousness) it is the natural state of being of Matt, the soul. Your urges to have bliss as a forever experience is right in line with the natural state of the indwelling God within you. It's no mystery at all why you feel that. That Indweller literally lives, takes a seat, situates Itself in the sacred heart of every being, right next to its Spark, in this case, the eternal spark currently named "Matt." If you don't cotton to the idea of reincarnation, even for a one-off lifetime, the contemplation of these truths still might result in the complete destruction of the untruth plaguing your sense of equanimity and blocking your joy--that is, the erroneous thought that "I can forever die."

Oh me, oh my. I hope I haven't done you a disservice here. After you get this, you will laugh, too, 'cuz then you might have days when you simply wish you could kiss it off forever! But those feelings are temporary and probably you will end up thanking God for that, as well. . Best of the best to you, all strength to you in conquering this fear. It doesn't belong in your repertoire of helpful thoughts.

 

[George-ananda]

Does anyone here see an infinite life as something different from a finite life extended indefinitely? How so?

I do see a difference. Firstly, a finite life is experienced through a gradually deteriorating body which unfortunately also often includes deteriorating physical and mental abilities until extinction of the individual consciousness. An infinite life includes the thought that the best can always be ahead and that this deteriorating body is only a temporary vehicle for the real driver. In the infinite view, there is infinite expansion on more advanced realms always ahead. I see the finite view as more depressing and less inspiring than the infinite view.

Edit: And secondly the idea that those we have known and become attached to continue to exist in a progressively happier state after death, is also inspiring and a positive (as opposed to the more depressing finite view).

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

That's nice. But that's an abstract concept that refers to a myriad of various emotions, bundled up in a single English word. I fail to see what it has to do with eternity.

What I'm saying here is that my love would never grow tired. I could live for all eternity loving someone and I would never grow tired of loving that person.

Hello, Matt ~
I think you've hit your own nail smack dab on its head by identifying the real issue here, i.e., your fear of death. But take a deep breath and calm your heart's pounding; one can usually "take apart" a fear, shine the light of knowledge on its parts and dispense with the darkness altogether. Fear is NO match for knowledge. It withers in the face of it.

The problem is both simple and complex and everybody faces it until they don't: it's determining for themselves and remembering, settling, living and moving comfortably in the world and its affairs with the answer to this question:

Who am I, really? Am I immortal soul bound up in a mortal human body? Or am I a human body (or mind or intellect or ego or the adjunct du jour) subject to death and decay who possesses an eternally alive soul? The body is assured death from the instant it's born, that is the inevitable outcome of birth itself. My teacher used to say, "If you don't want to die, don't be born!" (How not to be born is a whole 'nother subject.) But, anyway, the soul identifying itself by the name of his body, Matt, THAT cannot die. It was never born. It existed, it exists, it will continue to exist. Begin to claim your rightful identity with this Truth, embrace it if it rings true to you. When your mind conjures up shreds of the fear again, remind yourself once more of Who you are in reality, an eternal Spark of the Divine Fire called "God," or whatever Name rings your bell in a language that makes sense to you.

Bliss absolute is absolutely your birthright! Along with Truth and Awareness (consciousness) it is the natural state of being of Matt, the soul. Your urges to have bliss as a forever experience is right in line with the natural state of the indwelling God within you. It's no mystery at all why you feel that. That Indweller literally lives, takes a seat, situates Itself in the sacred heart of every being, right next to its Spark, in this case, the eternal spark currently named "Matt." If you don't cotton to the idea of reincarnation, even for a one-off lifetime, the contemplation of these truths still might result in the complete destruction of the untruth plaguing your sense of equanimity and blocking your joy--that is, the erroneous thought that "I can forever die."

Oh me, oh my. I hope I haven't done you a disservice here. After you get this, you will laugh, too, 'cuz then you might have days when you simply wish you could kiss it off forever! But those feelings are temporary and probably you will end up thanking God for that, as well. . Best of the best to you, all strength to you in conquering this fear. It doesn't belong in your repertoire of helpful thoughts.

I don't think this desire to live forever in eternal bliss has anything to do with an indwelling God within me. I think it is just evolution and natural selection. It is something brain-based. I have a mechanism in my brain that urges and desires to live in eternal bliss that came about through evolution, natural selection, and nothing more. If you were to somehow take that mechanism of my brain away from me, then I would no longer have that desire. I would be just fine with this one life I have.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

I don't think this desire to live forever in eternal bliss has anything to do with an indwelling God within me. I think it is just evolution and natural selection. It is something brain-based. I have a mechanism in my brain that urges and desires to live in eternal bliss that came about through evolution, natural selection, and nothing more. If you were to somehow take that mechanism of my brain away from me, then I would no longer have that desire. I would be just fine with this one life I have.

Well, OK. Your fear is palpable, it is denying you your rightful claim to joy and I don't see you outlining a method to conquer it. But if living with it works for you, I certainly have no business trying to blast it apart with the truth. Adios, literally (and figuratively ).

 

[LuisDantas]

While I certainly don't share such a belief, @George-ananda , or even the desire for it, I do thank you for such a clear explanation. It was really helpful.

 

[idav]

I see an absolute need for this. I see an absolute need for us to be immortal souls that can live in eternal bliss in the afterlife. Some people would say there is no need for that and the life we have here instead is all we need. I don't see it that way.

If we are nothing more than life forms that are just here to live and forever perish, then I see no reason to have a family or to cherish this life if all we are is just life forms that live and forever perish. If this is all we are, then we as human beings were better off having never been born in the first place. This life and this entire universe was better off having never come into being. This being the one and only life I will ever have is not any reason at all to me to cherish it and make the best of it.

I agree there is a need. Life does have purpose otherwise it wouldn't exist and there would never be any consciousness. We, you, have no idea when life begins and where it ends, what awareness is and the purpose of the universe trying to reflect on itself.

I think actually life strives to live as long as possible, that is what life struggles to do so there it is no surprise that people cherish life and don't want it to end. Life is so fragile our cells are constantly dieing repeatedly in the billions every day. In turn life tries to live on by replicating its cells in the billions everyday.

Eternity does exist which I think science has done plenty to show especially with science showing that time slows down to a near stop at the highest energy and mass levels, ie being one with god will allow us to live on or we will be stuck in space time forever decomposing which as I stated cells can't avoid wilthout the work around of replication. The cells in our entire body are replaced over time in order to avoid annihilation.

To me, a person who is able to cherish this life and make the best of it in the absence of this grand purpose/meaning is nothing more than a simple minded animal. Nothing more than a simple minded creature that goes about its daily life that says:

"Welp, I will enjoy and cherish this life while it lasts. When I die, I die and that is it."

That, to me, is a simple minded animal not concerned with any grand purpose/meaning. But as for me, I am nothing like that. I am on a much higher level than that. I am able to see the big picture for what it is (the grand scheme of things). That being, if this is all we are as human beings, then there is no reason for any of it.

This existence is just nonsense and to carry on with your life and have reason to cherish and enjoy this life is just absurd nonsense like that of a simple minded animal and nothing more.

You are conflating thinking there is no purpose with wanting there to be no purpose. Those are not the same things. People may think they know that there is no purpose or life has no meaning but most everyone wants there to be something more in the face of this, just like your expressing. Your telling us as if it is a fact there is no purpose in spite of you wanting there to be.

Anyway, nihilism is severely overrated and we are existential beings which you prove in your need to have meaning and purpose. Existentialism would agree there is very little or no meaning but that we find meaning because of who we are, because as you stated in the beginning of the post, there needs to be.

 

[Riverwolf]

What I'm saying here is that my love would never grow tired. I could live for all eternity loving someone and I would never grow tired of loving that person.

How long have you ever lived with the same person?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I see an absolute need for this. I see an absolute need for us to be immortal souls that can live in eternal bliss in the afterlife. Some people would say there is no need for that and the life we have here instead is all we need. I don't see it that way.

If we are nothing more than life forms that are just here to live and forever perish, then I see no reason to have a family or to cherish this life if all we are is just life forms that live and forever perish. If this is all we are, then we as human beings were better off having never been born in the first place. This life and this entire universe was better off having never come into being. This being the one and only life I will ever have is not any reason at all to me to cherish it and make the best of it.

To me, a person who is able to cherish this life and make the best of it in the absence of this grand purpose/meaning is nothing more than a simple minded animal. Nothing more than a simple minded creature that goes about its daily life that says:

"Welp, I will enjoy and cherish this life while it lasts. When I die, I die and that is it."

That, to me, is a simple minded animal not concerned with any grand purpose/meaning. But as for me, I am nothing like that. I am on a much higher level than that. I am able to see the big picture for what it is (the grand scheme of things). That being, if this is all we are as human beings, then there is no reason for any of it.

This existence is just nonsense and to carry on with your life and have reason to cherish and enjoy this life is just absurd nonsense like that of a simple minded animal and nothing more.

I think simple minded animals have among the best lives possible.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am unable to due to this obsession. The idea of eternal bliss is an absolute need that is built into me. I cannot bypass this need. I cannot escape it. It is always there making my life miserable and meaningless. The only thing that matters to me in life is living in eternal bliss. This is the only thing that dictates the value of a human being. As long as a person does not have that, then they are nothing. They have no value to me whatsoever.

No, NEVER!!! I will NEVER grow tired of eternity. I am like an eternal star that is bright, hot, and shining with eternal energy that NEVER dies out! I NEVER INTEND TO DIE!!! I WILL NEVER REST!!! I WILL NEVER GROW TIRED!!! MY ENERGY LEVEL WITH SKYROCKET HIGHER AND HIGHER FOR ALL ETERNITY LIKE A BRIGHT HOT STAR GROWING MORE AND MORE HOT AND POWERFUL!!! I DON'T INTEND TO BE PUT IN THE GRAVE!!! I INTEND TO BE AN IMMORTAL SOUL WITH INTENSE FEELINGS OF BLISS THAT GROW MORE AND MORE INTENSE AND POWERFUL!!! I INTEND TO BE IMMORTAL, INSANELY MANIC FOR ALL ETERNITY, AND NEVER DEPRESSED!!! I SURE HOPE THE ETERNAL BLISSFUL AFTERLIFE DOES EXIST!!! I remain agnostic and there is only one way to find out. That is, the day I die.

You are going to die though. It doesn't seem that you have a need for a belief in an afterlife, but rather that you assume you have to be a nihilist if you don't accept an afterlife, and it seems you also have a fear of death, rather than a need of a belief in an afterlife. The sooner you accept that one day you will die, the sooner you can embrace this life.
And, btw, there is no such thing as an "eternal star." Even stars die, and if they are getting bigger, they are in their final moments of life.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think simple minded animals have among the best lives possible.

"I think I could turn and live with animals. They are so placid, and self-contained. They do not lay awake at night and weep for their sins. They do not make me sick discussing their duty to "God". Not one of them kneels to another, nor to one of its own kind that lived thousands of years ago. Not one of them is "respectable", or unhappy, all over the Earth." -Lord Summerisle, The Wicker Man (1973)

 

[Twilight Hue]

"I think I could turn and live with animals. They are so placid, and self-contained. They do not lay awake at night and weep for their sins. They do not make me sick discussing their duty to "God". Not one of them kneels to another, nor to one of its own kind that lived thousands of years ago. Not one of them is "respectable", or unhappy, all over the Earth." -Lord Summerisle, The Wicker Man (1973)

Sometimes I do wonder if being a complex "superior" organism is more a curse than a benefit. A notable number of animals don't seem preoccupied with self esteem issues or emotional hangups past the immediate moment. We can learn a lot from that by returning to a simpler base upon which to live.

Metaphorically, an engine with less moving parts far outlasts the one with many with few breakdowns along the way.

 

[Onyx]

I'm a player, you can do what you want though.

 

[Riverwolf]

Sometimes I do wonder if being a complex "superior" organism is more a curse than a benefit. A notable number of animals don't seem preoccupied with self esteem issues or emotional hangups past the immediate moment. We can learn a lot from that by returning to a simpler base upon which to live.

Metaphorically, an engine with less moving parts far outlasts the one with many with few breakdowns along the way.

Yup, because complex machines have more points of potential failure, and thus inherently way lower luck.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Now our brains ensure our survival. They perceive our survival as being #1 above everything else in life. It is for this very reason why an eternal blissful afterlife is so important. Our brains never want us to die and desperately need this afterlife. However, there are some people who are not like that at all and are fine with the idea of forever remaining dead. I am no such person and not too many people are either. Such people like me will be miserable without the belief in the eternal blissful afterlife.