The New Black Panthers are nothing new.

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Uh -uh. An idiot is an idiot. To tip toe around that fact BECAUSE he's black is MORE racist than addressing it head on. It implies that we of the "privileged race" should just assume he's less capable of intelligent thought, or less capable of racism pure and simple, simply because he's black.

Hey, there's the crux of so many problems RIGHT THERE...

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. Are you denying the existence of white privilege?

 

[Kathryn]

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. Are you denying the existence of white privilege?

Nice attempt at diversion, but...no.

I am saying that I believe it's racist to imply that we can't call someone out over blatantly racist, or outrageous, or simply STUPID, behavior just BECAUSE of a person's race - as if we have to hold them to a LOWER standard simply because they are of a non white race.

I think that's incredibly racist. "We don't expect as civilized a level of behavior from you because...well, because you're black. But hey, that's mighty white of me to cut you that slack though, isn't it, brother?"

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Nice attempt at diversion, but...no.

It's not a diversion, Kathryn. It's an honest question: Do you believe that white privilege exists?

I am saying that I believe it's racist to imply that we can't call someone out over blatantly racist, or outrageous, or simply STUPID, behavior just BECAUSE of a person's race - as if we have to hold them to a LOWER standard simply because they are of a non white race.

I think that's incredibly racist. "We don't expect as civilized a level of behavior from you because...well, because you're black. But hey, that's mighty white of me to cut you that slack though, isn't it, brother?"

I have no idea. Really, I don't. There are two competing definitions of racism out there--one is that racism means insulting, putting down, or otherwise mistreating other people because of their race; the other is that racism is a set of actions or lack of action, that maintains the privilege of one race over another. I can't say for sure which one should be taken; both have grave risks if misapplied. Perhaps a mix of the two is needed?

 

[darkendless]

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. Are you denying the existence of white privilege?

White privelledge. Come to New Zealand or Australia and say that haha.

Its existance is brought about by accepting that white people are better when clearly they are just the same.

 

[Smoke]

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. Are you denying the existence of white privilege?

No, I understand what she's saying.

She's saying that if you look at a Klansman and say he's a racist, inbred, evil mugger-hugger, but you look at King Samir and say something like, "Well of course black people are angry" -- that's racist. It's racist because you're implying that it's not reasonable to expect to much, intellectually or morally, from black people.

I agree with Kathryn. It is racist.

And Kathryn is saying she's not going to hold back from mocking King Samir and calling him an idiot just because she's white and she's black. I think that's fair. Why should she?

To be clear about it, I do think black people have a right to be angry. I think gay people have a right to be angry, too. And poor ignorant white folks have a right to be angry, too, if you want to know the truth. But a person who expresses his anger the way a Klansman does, or the way King Samir does, is not behaving in an intelligent or moral or skillful way, no matter what his background is.

I still feel sorry for him. But that doesn't excuse him.

 

[Kathryn]

Mercy, I live in a very racially diverse family. My personal experience has been that people tend to live up to the reasonable expectations of others. What I mean is that if we make excuses for poor behavior, we GET poor behavior.

I don't see what your question about white privilege has to do with whether or not this man is a racist idiot.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

White privelledge. Come to New Zealand or Australia and say that haha.

Its existance is brought about by accepting that white people are better when clearly they are just the same.

I have no idea what the racial situation is in New Zealand. I would imagine, if anything, issues relating to race in Australia deal with relations with the Aborigines?

Mercy, I live in a very racially diverse family. My personal experience has been that people tend to live up to the reasonable expectations of others. What I mean is that if we make excuses for poor behavior, we GET poor behavior.

I don't see what your question about white privilege has to do with whether or not this man is a racist idiot.

Whites enjoy an increased probability of receiving a call for a job interview.
Whites are less likely to be frisked during a police stop.
If a white person is caught with drugs, his or her sentence tends to be far more lenient.
Whites do not have to worry about losing their voting rights based on race.
Whites don't have to worry about, when they see a white person acting poorly, that he or she will reflect poorly on their entire race. This includes TV news stories.

These are all documented, scientifically-verifiable examples of White privilege, Kathryn. Had the target of the video in the OP been a white person, our natural response would have been to pass him off as "just another idiot," because white privilege shields him from having his poor behavior associated with his race. Blacks do not enjoy such privilege.

Flame me all you want, but as a white person myself, these are sordid truths that I have had to come to grips with (and still struggle to).

 

[darkendless]

I have no idea what the racial situation is in New Zealand. I would imagine, if anything, issues relating to race in Australia deal with relations with the Aborigines?

Similar in both countries. The "natives" recieve benefits based on their race. Its pure racism.

These days i think whites are privelledged stereotypically but in reality they are the ones who work their butts off. In Australia and New Zealand black people (excuse to connotation it is not intended to be [FONT=&quot]Condescending) are lazy and instead complain about the white man instead of working to be like the white man.

Is that how things work in the US as well?
[/FONT]

 

[Father Heathen]

See? This is what I meant by the double standards of political correctness and tolerance. Racist blacks are just as immoral as racist whites. Racism is racism, and suggesting that certain races should get special privilege, entitlement and/or leniency is in and of itself racist. If people are truly equal, then our standards should be consistent.

Edit: this post was directed at the notion that it's acceptable and "understandable" for blacks to be racist. Kinda like how it's okay to say "honky" but not "******".

See?

 

[Kathryn]

I call a spade a spade.

 

[Kathryn]

Had the target of the video in the OP been a white person, our natural response would have been to pass him off as "just another idiot," because white privilege shields him from having his poor behavior associated with his race. Blacks do not enjoy such privilege.

Flame me all you want, but as a white person myself, these are sordid truths that I have had to come to grips with (and still struggle to).

I don't want to flame you. I just disagree with some of your ideas.

I disagree with your idea that racist comments by white people are shrugged off as OK. Maybe fifty years ago, but not now.

As for your white guilt, I really hope you get over that. How is being white YOUR fault? If you're not guilty of racism, then you're not guilty - PERIOD.

If you are chosen for a job and you think it's because you're white, maybe you shouldn't take that job. Would you want to work for a company that's racist? However, before you act rashly, you may want to consider the possibility that you are the best qualified for the position. Most employers aren't stupid. Most employers want the most qualified person for the job.

I worked in the staffing industry for about 10 years in the American South. I did professional placement. I can count on one hand, with fingers left over, how many employers told me or hinted at me that race would be an issue in their hiring decision.

In fact, when I had a really sharp candidate that was a minority (Oh, wait, white, non Hispanics are the minority in Texas! But you know what I mean...), that person was nearly always placed very quickly. Most employers would LOVE to have a great employee who is a minority, since the EEOC is so prevalent and demands such racial diversity in the workplace.

Qualified is qualified. Poor work ethic is poor work ethic. Fair is fair. Racist is racist.

I judge people, not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

 

[Engyo]

I call a spade a spade.

And a shovel a shovel, and a hoe a hoe, and a pick a pick, and so on and so forth.

How do you feel about Mark Williams' "Letter from Colored People to Abraham Lincoln"?

 

[Kathryn]

And a shovel a shovel, and a hoe a hoe, and a pick a pick, and so on and so forth.

How do you feel about Mark Williams' "Letter from Colored People to Abraham Lincoln"?

I think it is absolutely horrible and I was appalled by it - and even more so by his idea that this could in any way be appropriate.

 

[Smoke]

white, non Hispanics are the minority in Texas

Only if you think being the largest demographic group in the state is to be "the minority."

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Mercy,

It's not a diversion, Kathryn. It's an honest question: Do you believe that white privilege exists?

Thomas Sowell proved one aspect of this white privilege argument to be complete bunk. Jesse Jackson every couple of years parades around arguing that lending agencies are racist because whites get accepted for more loans than blacks or Hispanics. This proved the racism of the lending agencies and showed the existence of white privilege.

But then if you continue to look at the empirical evidence you find that Asian-Americans get accepted for loans at a higher rate than whites and the whole white privilege argument (at least as it pertains to 'predatory lenders') is proven false.

Privileged race talk is nonsense; it is victim-identity politics at its worse.

 

[Kathryn]

Only if you think being the largest demographic group in the state is to be "the minority."

Smoke, I don't know how many times I have to explain this to you.

The US Census says that IF YOU INCLUDE HISPANICS in the "white" population in Texas, "whites" are the majority. But as I've stated over and over again on this forum, white NON HISPANICS are the minority in Texas.

Oh, heck, I'll post the stats for you...again. I really hope you will be able to grasp this so we can stop arguing about this point. It's getting tedious!

Texas QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

As you can see, this clearly states that WHITE PERSONS NON HISPANIC are 47 percent of the population in Texas. Only four states in the US have non hispanic whites as a minority. They are Texas, California, New Mexico and Hawaii.

 

[Smoke]

I call a spade a spade.

Smile when you say that.

 

[Smoke]

As you can see, this clearly states that WHITE PERSONS NON HISPANIC are 47 percent of the population in Texas.

Yes, I've pointed that out myself before. Now show me which ethnic group in Texas is bigger than that.

Note that I didn't say they were "the majority." I said they were the largest demographic in the state -- which they are. It's hard to translate that into being "the minority."

 

[Kathryn]

Smoke, the state is unusual in the sense that it has large groups of MINORITIES. Every group unto itself is a minority.

This is unusual for states in the US. As I pointed out before, there are only four states in fact that have that unique characteristic - California, Texas, New Mexico and Hawaii.

Hispanics and other racial groups outnumber non Hispanic whites in Texas. It's a fact and it has lots of consequences and creates a unique atmosphere. Personally, I like it overall and it doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[Smoke]

Smoke, the state is unusual in the sense that it has large groups of MINORITIES. Every group unto itself is a minority.

This is unusual for states in the US. As I pointed out before, there are only four states in fact that have that unique characteristic - California, Texas, New Mexico and Hawaii.

Hispanics and other racial groups outnumber non Hispanic whites in Texas. It's a fact and it has lots of consequences and creates a unique atmosphere. Personally, I like it overall and it doesn't bother me one bit.

So what do you mean when you say non-Hispanic whites are "the minority"? Are Hispanics "the minority," too? Are Asians "the minority"? Are African-Americans "the minority"? Is that really how we use the definite article in English?

Or do you mean there are basically two groups in Texas? Non-Hispanic whites and colored people? "Just like me" and "not just like me"?