The New Pew and the Jew

[Jayhawker Soule]

See Pew numbers on world faiths add up to more stark news for Jews.

Apparently, the sky is still falling and we're still slip-sliding away …

 

[Moishe3rd]

You know the nearer your destination
The more you're slip slidin' away
I know a Jew
He came from some home town
He wore his passion for assimilation
Like a thorny crown
He said Jews - you live in fear
Your god is so tenuous,
I'm afraid that it will disappear
Slip slidin' away
Slip slidin' away
You know the nearer your destination
The more you're slip slidin' away
I know a Jew
Became a cynic
These are the very words he uses
To describe his life
He said a bad day
Is all we got
He said a good day's when I lie in bed
And think of things that have never been
Slip slidin' away
Slip slidin' away
You know the nearer your destination
The more you're slip slidin' away...

 

[metis]

A good friend of mine who's Orthodox and teaches theology down in Texas says that if intermarriage is a problem, then God will have to be the one to figure out a solution. IOW, it's just gonna keep happening.

 

[Moishe3rd]

A good friend of mine who's Orthodox and teaches theology down in Texas says that if intermarriage is a problem, then God will have to be the one to figure out a solution. IOW, it's just gonna keep happening.

Indeed.
It is a tenet that G-d Creates marriages.
Which would indicate that He is letting His People Go who want to leave and intermarry...
Then again, I am one half of a formerly intermarrried couple so... Hashem also appears to want new blood to infuse into His Chosen People.
Life is beautiful all the time...

 

[Domenic]

Those against Inter-marriage are following a man-made prejudice. Since all races came from Adam, it would seem Gods plan was to have many colored people. There is nothing in the scriptures restricting colors to mix. I would assume to God the mixing is natural, and the division is not. One of Noah's three sons was of the dark skin, Ham.

 

[RabbiO]

Those against Inter-marriage are following a man-made prejudice. Since all races came from Adam, it would seem Gods plan was to have many colored people. There is nothing in the scriptures restricting colors to mix. I would assume to God the mixing is natural, and the division is not. One of Noah's three sons was of the dark skin, Ham.

It's not an issue of race.

 

[Moishe3rd]

Those against Inter-marriage are following a man-made prejudice. Since all races came from Adam, it would seem Gods plan was to have many colored people. There is nothing in the scriptures restricting colors to mix. I would assume to God the mixing is natural, and the division is not. One of Noah's three sons was of the dark skin, Ham.

Being Jewish is not dependent upon melanin. It is dependent upon accepting G-d's Torah and G-d's Laws.

 

[Domenic]

It's not an issue of race.

What is the difference between an Arab, and a Jew...they come from brothers? And yes, both believe in God. The Jew had a Covenant with God. When the Jews rejected Jesus, they broke that Covenant. Jesus, who the Jews reject, made a new Covenant…with all peoples. Would it not be better to marry a person who is under the new Covenant, than one who is a part of the broken one?

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

What absolute total bigotry, how dare these Xians break their own laws and pass judgement ... and on Hashems laws which He stated were for ever !
how arrogant they are to proclaim such blasphemy

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What is the difference between an Arab, and a Jew...they come from brothers? And yes, both believe in God. The Jew had a Covenant with God. When the Jews rejected Jesus, they broke that Covenant. Jesus, who the Jews reject, made a new Covenant…with all peoples. Would it not be better to marry a person who is under the new Covenant, than one who is a part of the broken one?

Reads a bit like "The Antisemitic Idiot's Guide to Replacement Theology" ...

 

[metis]

What is the difference between an Arab, and a Jew...they come from brothers? And yes, both believe in God. The Jew had a Covenant with God. When the Jews rejected Jesus, they broke that Covenant. Jesus, who the Jews reject, made a new Covenant…with all peoples. Would it not be better to marry a person who is under the new Covenant, than one who is a part of the broken one?

It's apparent that your "god" is quite a liar since Torah/Tanakh states that the Covenant is forever and perpetual.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think this is symptomatic of a general crisis in both Christianity and Judaism in the West. Both Christians and Jews in the West are suffering from below replacement level birth rates while immigrants, especially those from Muslim cultures, have high birth rates. Jews would be hit hard by this especially because they already have small numbers, while it is going to take a little while more for the ramifications to slap Western Christians in the face (but it's coming).

But for Jews, specifically, what do you think possible solutions are? Becoming more like the Haredi?

 

[metis]

Indeed.
It is a tenet that G-d Creates marriages.
Which would indicate that He is letting His People Go who want to leave and intermarry...
Then again, I am one half of a formerly intermarrried couple so... Hashem also appears to want new blood to infuse into His Chosen People.
Life is beautiful all the time...

I would say marriage within our "own" is best, but intermarriage indeed adds some new members and often much enthusiasm. As at least one person here knows, I converted into Judaism about 20 years ago (my wife is Christian but attends with me all the time), and our oldest daughter and her two daughters converted about 10 years ago. After our youngest granddaughter did her bat mitzvah two years ago, our rabbi came up to me and said "See what you started".

And both my daughter and two granddaughters are very active in our synagogue, and our oldest granddaughter teaches Hebrew to those preparing for their bnai mitzvah and also does volunteer work at the Friendship Circle (she was a bat mitzvah about four years ago). As the old saying goes, "There's nothing more dangerous than a new convert", but in this case I think the "dangerous" is a good thing.

Shabbat shalom to you and all.

 

[metis]

I think this is symptomatic of a general crisis in both Christianity and Judaism in the West. Both Christians and Jews in the West are suffering from below replacement level birth rates while immigrants, especially those from Muslim cultures, have high birth rates. Jews would be hit hard by this especially because they already have small numbers, while it is going to take a little while more for the ramifications to slap Western Christians in the face (but it's coming).

But for Jews, specifically, what do you think possible solutions are? Becoming more like the Haredi?

No, even though they obviously have the highest birth rate amongst us. To me, each of us need to go in the direction that we think is right.

It is often during times of crisis with us that we make adjustments, change, and grow, and this may be no exception in the long run. Like with all other religions, we have something to offer, but if we "hide our light under a basket", to use a Christian analogy, our numbers are likely to keep decreasing. I'm not suggesting that we proselytize, but opening up and being less insular might do us some good.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, even though they obviously have the highest birth rate amongst us. To me, each of us need to go in the direction that we think is right.

It is often during times of crisis with us that we make adjustments, change, and grow, and this may be no exception in the long run. Like with all other religions, we have something to offer, but if we "hide our light under a basket", to use a Christian analogy, our numbers are likely to keep decreasing. I'm not suggesting that we proselytize, but opening up and being less insular might do us some good.

The Zoroastrians are dealing with much the same issue you mention here.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

..., I converted into Judaism about 20 years ago (my wife is Christian but attends with me all the time), and our oldest daughter and her two daughters converted about 10 years ago. After our youngest granddaughter did her bat mitzvah two years ago, our rabbi came up to me and said "See what you started".

That's special, and no doubt says much about you. Sadly, I think the Pew evidence suggests that yours is an atypical story. I am thinking through all of the mixed-marriages in my synagogue, and I know of no comparable narrative.

 

[metis]

That's special, and no doubt says much about you. Sadly, I think the Pew evidence suggests that yours is an atypical story. I am thinking through all of the mixed-marriages in my synagogue, and I know of no comparable narrative.

I know of quite a few other mixed marriages that have apparently been successful as roughly 1/3 of our congregation are mixed and we continue to grow. However, I do agree that the stats show something different, and i certainly cannot ignore that.

To me, I think it's the attitude of those in marriage that make a difference, and those who take a more "my way or the highway" approach are likely to have difficulty no matter whether religion is involved or not.

Gotta now leave and do some pre-Shabbos shopping. Do you need anything while I'm there? No response-- too bad.

 

[Akivah]

A good friend of mine who's Orthodox and teaches theology down in Texas says that if intermarriage is a problem, then God will have to be the one to figure out a solution.

A man went to his rabbi and said "Rabbi you have to help me. My son is abandoning Judaism. He wants to marry a Christian woman!". The rabbi says "Funny that you come to me. My own son abandoned Judaism because he wanted to marry a Christian woman. So I fasted and prayed to G-d for an answer. And G-d said 'Funny that you come to me.' ..."

 

[Tumah]

But for Jews, specifically, what do you think possible solutions are? Becoming more like the Haredi?

Sounds good to me!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Sounds good to me!

Actually, I have links to a couple of reform synagogues in Israel that would be most happy to have you.