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The Obama thread

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
After hundreds of threads about Trump, I guess it's time we discuss Obama...and his legacy.
I was watching this video...made by Ben Shapiro.



Try to convince me that the Obama administration did something good for world peace and for the stability and peace of the Mediterranean area, that includes the Arabic-speaking world, Turkey, Israel and many other countries.

Thank you in advance. :)
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Obama was a product of his party. He was a virtual unknown prior to becoming a candidate for President. He may have fit a certain profile, an image the party wanted to convey, so they hyped him up to the Nth degree and people started jumping on the bandwagon. Of course, there was still a lot of hand-wringing and bellowing among the Republicans, but all in all, Obama was a pretty safe choice who clearly wasn't coming in to shake things up or rock any boats. I've heard some call him "Bush Lite."

America's foreign policy was just a continuation from what was before, so I doubt much would have changed in that regard if either McCain or Romney would have been elected instead of Obama.

An interesting thing I would observe, at least because I'm feeling a bit cheeky this morning, is that over much of my life, I see many of the Presidents we've had as being symbolic figureheads who aren't really entirely their own man. If you look at Clinton, Bush Jr., Obama (1992-2016) - historians might look back on this era call it the "Reign of the Pretty Boys." Their job was to sit there and smile and look good, while the military leaders, bureaucrats, lobbyists, etc. continued to run things as they always have. That's not to say that they were complete puppets or anything, but they were smart enough and shrewd enough to sit back and enjoy the ride without rocking the boat. It seemed to work with Reagan, too, and if nothing else, there was a sense of continuity which may have helped keep things somewhat stable in the U.S., at least on the surface.

I think the experience with Nixon must have scared the bejesus out of some politicians and other movers and shakers who didn't want to repeat that experience. So, the idea of having more of a figurehead in office seems to make a certain level of sense from the standpoint of realpolitik. And it went on that way from Reagan all the way up to Obama, and then, you-know-who was elected and all hell broke loose.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
After hundreds of threads about Trump, I guess it's time we discuss Obama...and his legacy.
I was watching this video...made by Ben Shapiro.



Try to convince me that the Obama administration did something good for world peace and for the stability and peace of the Mediterranean area, that includes the Arabic-speaking world, Turkey, Israel and many other countries.

Thank you in advance. :)
The above is nonsensical as that's Shapiro's m.o. as he's a right-winger.

Obama tried to bring the sides together peaceably, but that's not Shapiro's m.o. He spouts off about "lies" but then tells whoppers himself.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
The above is nonsensical as that's Shapiro's m.o. as he's a right-winger.

Obama tried to bring the sides together peaceably, but that's not Shapiro's m.o. He spouts off about "lies" but then tells whoppers himself.
The purpose of this thread is to convince me he worked for peace in the Mediterranean area.
Did he? ;)
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
An interesting thing I would observe, at least because I'm feeling a bit cheeky this morning, is that over much of my life, I see many of the Presidents we've had as being symbolic figureheads who aren't really entirely their own man. If you look at Clinton, Bush Jr., Obama (1992-2016) - historians might look back on this era call it the "Reign of the Pretty Boys."
Interesting. But this thread is particularly about Shapiro's video.
What Obama did that affected the peace in the Middle East, with regard to Israel.

I have to underline that Clinton is the president of the Oslo Accords.
Compared to Obama, Clinton was a great president. It's a fact.
I am terribly displeased with the fact that history crucified him because that fact involving his private life.

I still think, as Shapiro confirmed, that Obama has been the worst president so far, as for the Mediterranean geopolitics.
There's a before and an after Obama, in the history of the Med geopolitics.

He's very good at words...but I won't let anyone dupe me.
I am outspoken and politically incorrect.



 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The purpose of this thread is to convince me he worked for peace in the Mediterranean area.
Did he? ;)
Yes, but unfortunately, he overreacted imo when he used drones to excessively bomb terrorists that also killed many "civilians" during his 1st term.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Interesting. But this thread is particularly about Shapiro's video.
What Obama did that affected the peace in the Middle East, with regard to Israel.

I have to underline that Clinton is the president of the Oslo Accords.
Compared to Obama, Clinton was a great president. It's a fact.
I am terribly displeased with the fact that history crucified him because that fact involving his private life.

I still think, as Shapiro confirmed, that Obama has been the worst president so far, as for the Mediterranean geopolitics.
There's a before and an after Obama, in the history of the Med geopolitics.

He's very good at words...but I won't let anyone dupe me.
I am outspoken and politically incorrect.

U.S. policy typically might fluctuate from President to President, although when it comes to foreign policies, they tend to be inherited by one Administration then passed down to the next.

In other words, Obama did not create the political turmoil in the Middle East and the Mediterranean region, at least not in the overall sense. He did inherit an ongoing war on terror, as well as the U.S. obligations to Israel and other countries in the region. Whether he faithfully fulfilled those obligations - or if someone else might have done something different at that time and place - that's a matter that history will sort out over time.

I was disappointed that he didn't withdraw the US from Afghanistan after Osama Bin Laden was killed. Once that had taken place, the original reason for the US invasion was no longer relevant, and we could have declared victory and brought the troops home. But because we stayed longer to do nation-building, it's now seen as a dismal failure and defeat. Trump could have pulled them out, too, but he didn't.

Libya was another debacle, though again, Obama didn't really create US policy towards Libya, as Gaddafi was viewed as an enemy by the US for decades prior to Obama. They said he was behind a terror attack on a Berlin nightclub which killed many American servicemen. But I don't know if they ever actually proved that, though. Getting rid of Gaddafi would not be uncharacteristic or unprecedented in US policy, regardless of who happens to be in the White House at the time.

If there was bungling in the execution, then I guess it would ultimately fall upon the Commander-in-Chief to take the blame. But if the President has no military experience and is not really a military or geopolitical strategist, then they're mostly going to rely on the various experts who would advise him on how to proceed. That would appear to be the wiser course, depending on who the advisors and generals are. But then again, Trump seemed to think that he was smarter than the generals, but I think the generals are just a little bit smarter than Trump. Not much, but just a little bit smarter.

Obama was smart enough to keep his nose clean, and now he's living a life of luxury and enjoying all the privileges and prestige of a former US President and elder statesman. History will be the ultimate judge.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
U.S. policy typically might fluctuate from President to President, although when it comes to foreign policies, they tend to be inherited by one Administration then passed down to the next.

In other words, Obama did not create the political turmoil in the Middle East and the Mediterranean region, at least not in the overall sense.
Yes, he did.
He has given speeches that empowered certain fundamentalist countries.
And his actions even spoke louder than words.
And I believe he has personal ideological motivations.

He did inherit an ongoing war on terror,
Absolutely not. The exact opposite.
The Obama administration rolled red carpets at the fundamentalist countries and destroyed the Arab socialist countries that have always fought against fundamentalism and terrorism: Syria and Libya.


Syria and Libya were destroyed by those elites in those fundamentalist countries who also fund terrorists like Hamas.
Because they cannot tolerate that there are prosperous Arab countries where women are free not to wear the veil.

They are radicals that want to drag all the Arabic-speaking world back to a world where women are treated like men's property.
Because if you kill a woman just because she wore a miniskirt, that's horrific.

I m saddened by how deceived the American citizens are.


I was disappointed that he didn't withdraw the US from Afghanistan after Osama Bin Laden was killed. Once that had taken place, the original reason for the US invasion was no longer relevant, and we could have declared victory and brought the troops home. But because we stayed longer to do nation-building, it's now seen as a dismal failure and defeat. Trump could have pulled them out, too, but he didn't.
Exactly. Bravo.
Libya was another debacle, though again, Obama didn't really create US policy towards Libya, as Gaddafi was viewed as an enemy by the US for decades prior to Obama. They said he was behind a terror attack on a Berlin nightclub which killed many American servicemen. But I don't know if they ever actually proved that, though. Getting rid of Gaddafi would not be uncharacteristic or unprecedented in US policy, regardless of who happens to be in the White House at the time.
Lies, lies, lies.
Libyans have always been great partners to us Italians. It was a former colony of Italy. Libyans have always appreciated the fact that we never imposed our language on them.
Gaddafi was a great socialist leader. I advise you to read the Green Book.
Very wise. People can change. After the nineties, he became a great, wise leader. He fought terrorism. He wisely supported the Palestinian nationalism, but condemned fundamentalists in his country.
Libya was a paradise before Obama.
Women were free, they were not veiled.
There was employment even for Italians who went to work there.

Italians know what Obama and Hillary did to Libya.



If there was bungling in the execution, then I guess it would ultimately fall upon the Commander-in-Chief to take the blame. But if the President has no military experience and is not really a military or geopolitical strategist, then they're mostly going to rely on the various experts who would advise him on how to proceed. That would appear to be the wiser course, depending on who the advisors and generals are. But then again, Trump seemed to think that he was smarter than the generals, but I think the generals are just a little bit smarter than Trump. Not much, but just a little bit smarter.
Trump has never started any war.
He focused on economics. On internal affairs.
Obama was often in the old continent... doing God knows what.
Obama was smart enough to keep his nose clean, and now he's living a life of luxury and enjoying all the privileges and prestige of a former US President and elder statesman. History will be the ultimate judge.

I am a person who can read people's mind.
 
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