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The Obama thread

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Politicians in both parties say what they need to say to appease the thinking of left, or right of center. Then move back to reality after the election. Obama publicly discouraged conventional war while droning people to death all over the place!
The Arabic-speaking world is not a monolith.
It's so diverse that I cannot find any similarity between a Moroccan and a Saudi, really.
Moroccans have been living in Europe for decades, with us.

When you see (where I live) so many Arabs accusing Obama of empowering fundamentalism, you cannot but listen to them.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
The Arabic-speaking world is not a monolith.
It's so diverse that I cannot find any similarity between a Moroccan and a Saudi, really.
Moroccans have been living in Europe for decades, with us.

When you see (where I live) so many Arabs accusing Obama of empowering fundamentalism, you cannot but listen to them.
Yes! Naive Obama went to the Arab Spring channeling Nevil Chamberlin's ghost!
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Yes! Naive Obama went to the Arab Spring channeling Nevil Chamberlin's ghost!
So am I supposed to believe it was something done in good faith? :)

Because, you know, if you are for social justice, then you support Socialism, like that of Gaddafi.
You don't support the fundamentalists funded by countries where women are treated like third class citizens.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
So am I supposed to believe it was something done in good faith? :)

Because, you know, if you are for social justice, then you support Socialism, like that of Gaddafi.
You don't support the fundamentalists funded by countries where women are treated like third class citizens.
The Left in America has a soft spot for perceived victims.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Obama is responsible for some nasty things.
- Opposition to gay marriage.
- Selling presidential pardons.
- Persecution of whistle blowers.
- And continuing to spendy deadly wasteful wars.

Worst of all, Democrat voters overwhelmingly
approved of it all. Especially so with the wars,
for which they re-elected him despite his
reneging on his campaign promise to end them.

One thing we see with party politics is that
severe moral & ethical lapses by leaders don't
bother their party, eg, Clinton, Obama, Trump.
Support doesn't wane.
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
One thing we see with party politics is that
severe moral & ethical lapses by leaders don't
bother their party, eg, Clinton, Obama, Trump.
Support doesn't wane.
Exactly.
I criticize Bush and Obama equally. Bush's decisions had effects on the Middle East...the ancient Mesopotamia.
Obama's decisions had effects on the Med area, where Europe is too.

Thank you for your interesting observation.

The issue is that countries are not monoliths. For example, in Israel all the people want peace and want to live in peace.
But I don't exclude there may be people who okayed Obama's war policies. Or even favored them.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Obama for 3rd term
Funny thing about that.
A fundie friend (who lives in a world of vast conspiracies)
was convinced that Obama would refuse to leave office,
& would illegally set himself up as dictator.
But he believes the Trump stolen election claim, & saw
nothing wrong with the failed insurrection & coup....
except that it failed.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Funny thing about that.
A fundie friend (who lives in a world of vast conspiracies)
was convinced that Obama would refuse to leave office,
& would illegally set himself up as dictator.
But he believes the Trump stolen election claim, & saw
nothing wrong with the failed insurrection & coup....
except that it failed.
Funny people.

Obama for a 3rd term would have been better than trump, ever.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I just meant that politicians use propaganda to deceive the American people.

Well, yes, I agree. This has been true for a very long time. Many, if not most, Americans tend to be very gullible and easily taken in by propaganda, especially when it involves the outside world and US foreign policy. It's not as easy when it comes to domestic issues, since Americans live here and can see what's going on in their own country. When propagandists say "America's economy is doing well" and people see homeless on the streets, boarded-up buildings, laid-off workers, etc., then the people know the propagandists are lying.

It's all about economic interests; the Hillary's emails show the reason why Gaddafi had to be eliminated. And it has to do with the banking interests of the CFA Franc. It has nothing to do with fundamentalism or terrorism.
Gaddafi has always fought fundamentalism and terrorism.
He was hated by the fundamentalist countries because of his stance on radicalism; for instance he said about Nine Eleven: it's a horrifying act. He called on Muslim aid groups to join international assistance efforts to the US, "regardless of political considerations or differences between America and the peoples of the world."

In fact...no hijacker came from Libya. They all came or nearly from KSA. It's a fact.
That's what's paradoxical: because of economic interests, the American Deep State waged war against the Arabs who are against terrorism, while pandering those who have an ambiguous stance on it.

Well, that would explain why many in politics and media had some kind of obsession with Gaddafi. In contrast to Iran's government, which enabled the takeover of the US embassy in Tehran, burned our flag, chanted "death to America" - and they somehow get a free pass, while the US government obsessed over Gaddafi. It never made any sense.

If it's about economic interests, then US policy is still rather curious, since our government folded up and surrendered its economic and geopolitical interests in order to suck up to regimes like that of Saudi Arabia.

In fact, the whole thing is rather ironic and sad when you look at it. Ever since the end of WW2, US propagandists have been so heavily focused on the outside world, on America's national, strategic, and economic interests.

And yet, after all these decades of military interventionism, gunboat diplomacy, covert operations, foreign aid, uneven trade agreements, etc., our government and country as a whole has very little to show for all this effort and devotion to "protecting our interests."

Looking at the overall results and the conditions in the country at present, it seems that over the past 75+ years, our government has worked feverishly against American interests. They have harmed America and impacted severely on Americans' well-being and standard of living. Based on that, one might well question whether our government was ever really sincere in its supposed devotion to our national interests.
 
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Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Worst of all, Democrat voters overwhelmingly
approved of it all. Especially so with the wars,
for which they re-elected him despite his
reneging on his campaign promise to end them.

One thing we see with party politics is that
severe moral & ethical lapses by leaders don't
bother their party, eg, Clinton, Obama, Trump.
Support doesn't wane.

Do you ever wonder why that is?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yes, I can see that. I would also look at the end result and observe how all of this impacts life in these United States.
Voters (as a group) aren't very good
at correlating votes with consequences.
That would require reason. But emotion
supersedes that.
 
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