The Old Testament was found to be more than twice as violent as the Quran

[Lyndon]

You must be talking about something else. In Roy Moore's case there has been no due process, no judgment, no case, and the (laughing) is a year book signature that no one will produce.

I honestly don't know what post your responding to. Or at least what part.

The only related point I saw was the statement by you:



1. We were not talking about the freedom of religion. We were talking about due process and the presumption of innocence. It is amazing that this was the closest you got to relevancy.
2. I think there is a grand total of one Christian Church in Korea and it is a total sham (like almost everything in the country) run by the state.

Keep in mind I wasn't talking about religious freedom but since you brought it up.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/18/north-korea-how-christians-survive-in-worlds-most-anti-christian-nation.html

I don't think Hitler was ever convicted in a court of law, does that make him innocent until proven guilty. You've got an accused child molester, Trump, supporting an accused child molester, Moore. What's wrong with this picture. Some Christians don't seem to care if we have child molesters in government as long as they're against abortion, the pinnacle of hypocrisy!!

 

[Grandliseur]

Someone analysed the Bible and Quran to see which is more violent

Personally find this interesting that when based on a analytical perspective, it says the Jews have far more violent beliefs than Muslims; thus should either book be endorsed in society anymore, when they encourage such disgusting acts?

Like shouldn't we move on from the barbaric past that humans have had, instead of teach it to our children as religious values to live by.

In my opinion.

If someone wrote about the trench wars in WWI, would that account not be extremely violent! If then the Bible describes without bias the wars of ancient times, does this historical account indicate that God approved of such?
Here I know what some shall answer with, namely, the conquest of the land Israel was given. However, take into account, that while God used Israel to take this land, it was a judgment carried out on the people living back then in those places who had succumbed to human sacrifices in their worship of their idols. Being killed in judgment is a different pickle entirely. If any of those individuals didn't deserve to die, God shall bring them back after judgment day.

 

[james bond]

Someone analysed the Bible and Quran to see which is more violent

Personally find this interesting that when based on a analytical perspective, it says the Jews have far more violent beliefs than Muslims; thus should either book be endorsed in society anymore, when they encourage such disgusting acts?

Like shouldn't we move on from the barbaric past that humans have had, instead of teach it to our children as religious values to live by.

In my opinion.

There's a lot of ignorance with atheists and their views on the religious. It's not violence, but the wars for the religious that caused all the deaths. The religious and their religion, except for the atheist religion, is not the most dangerous and violent group in the world. The most violent were the atheists and their state atheism. They killed the most people bar none. This is why we need true religion.

In the US, we have Antifa which is an atheist group and they believe in violence as a means to accomplish their goals. They are calling for violence against Trump supporters. The killing of a conservative country music crown in Las Vegas was fueled by Antifa sentiments.

 

[wizanda]

However, take into account, that while God used Israel to take this land, it was a judgment carried out on the people living back then in those places who had succumbed to human sacrifices in their worship of their idols.

So Muslims beheading Christians for idolatry is fine then, as they're doing it for their God?

This is why we need true religion.

Agreed if we created one new true world religion, and archived all these ancient barbaric ones, there might be a hope for world peace.

The most violent were the atheists and their state atheism.

There are not historical facts to back up your claim, the majority of world fighting throughout history has been over land/power, where each opposing culture has generally had different religions... Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, Rome, Vikings, were all religious crusaders, thus your numbers are well off.

Assuming their were does not make anything I said any different.

It isn't an assumption you can study ancient cultures such as Hittites, Canaanites, Sumerian, Babylonian, Roman, Carthaginian, etc.

When the Jews record their own suffering at the hands of the God they betrayed that's hostile testimony of the highest order.

Have you read the Bible, it isn't portrayed as suffering.

In the ANE God did at times order his people to wage war against others for various reasons.

Unfortunately when quoting that, you're using a specific religious texts that stipulates additional factors; where it says it pleased YHVH for them to do these things.

What's your conclusion?

It is just saying YHVH Elohim might not be the ultimate manifestor of reality, and is more like a representative of God...

Thus you implying all these things they did is justified as they did it for the true God, is only hearsay based on history.

Therefore I will send you into exile beyond Damascus," says the LORD, whose name is God Almighty

Amos 5:27 Therefore will I cause you to go into captivityH1540 beyondH4480 H1973 Damascus,H1834 saithH559 the LORD,H3068 whose nameH8034 is The GodH430 of hosts.H6635

Amos 5:27 Hebrew Text Analysis

That has no word Almighty there, which is Shaddai (H7706), not Zebaot which is hosts (H6635), and it doesn't use the sinular term El (H410), it uses the Elohi (H430) which can be plural.

In my opinion.

 

[Grandliseur]

So Muslims beheading Christians for idolatry is fine then, as they're doing it for their God?

Obviously, the Muslim doing that would think so; however, it is your right to fight back and even get others to fight back for you. If indeed this were the will of God, fighting back would help not at all.In the case of the recent terrible beheadings, since God is not seen fighting for these people, we can go in there and cut them into dog-food without any problem. Maybe that would make the price of my dog food go down!

If you are familiar with the account of Israel's entering the promised land, and even their way thereto - their way was marked with miracles, one after the other. In one case, if memory serves, Moses had to keep his arm/s lifted or else the enemy would start to win. This kind of thing, if you take this at its word, would be obvious even to the enemies of Israel fighting that day.
The interesting thing is that before they entered the promised land, they politely asked permission to pass through without resorting to war; only when attacked did they fight back with God's assistance.

 

[wizanda]

since God is not seen fighting for these people, we can go in there and cut them into dog-food without any problem.

Unfortunately these are classic signs of a psychopath; people who are mentally ill will say it is acceptable to have done horrific violent crimes, as God instructed them to do it...

In my opinion.

 

[Grandliseur]

Unfortunately these are classic signs of a psychopath; people who are mentally ill will say it is acceptable to have done horrific violent crimes, as God instructed them to do it...

In my opinion.

Since we have the teachings of Jesus teaching us how to behave, these people are clearly insane or inspired by demons. I have encountered demons while engaged in Christian works. One time was funny and witnesses by many, the others not so, and no witnesses, except one thing was a picture I took of a local deity's home/place of worship, he got irritated and changed the picture in ways I could not have done simply by shaking the camera while taking the picture, thereby telling me to stay out of his house.

 

[12jtartar]

Someone analysed the Bible and Quran to see which is more violent

Personally find this interesting that when based on a analytical perspective, it says the Jews have far more violent beliefs than Muslims; thus should either book be endorsed in society anymore, when they encourage such disgusting acts?

Like shouldn't we move on from the barbaric past that humans have had, instead of teach it to our children as religious values to live by.

In my opinion.

wisanda,
You seem to be a thinker, but are you really, Intellectuality Honest?? If you were, you would get past the Mosaic Law Covenant and remember that Jesus came to earth to remove the Old Laws and begin a New Covenant that he instituted on the night before his death, Luke 22:14-20, 1Corinthians 11:23-26.
Under the New Covenant, we are to obey the Law of the Christ.
One very important law that we are to obey is the Golden Rule, that Jesus stated at Matthew 7:12, which says to do to others what you want them to do to yourself. You do not want to be killed, do you??? Then stop talking about the Old Mosaic Law Covenant, which no gentile was ever under, except a few Proselytes, and the Jews. With the death of Jesus, no person on earth is under The Mosaic Law Covenant. One of the main reasons the Jesus came to earth was to do away with the Mosaic Law Covenant, because everyone under that Covenant was under the Curse of Sin and Death, Galatians 3:1-14, This shows that we are no longer under the Covenant to Works, but under a Covenant of Faith, and through The New Covenant of Faith we are completely justified from our sins, all the things that we could not be forgiven under the Mosaic Law Covenant, Hebrews Acts 13:29-39. The New Covenant is much better than the. Ossicles Law Covenant, because it is based on the Life Blood of Jesus Christ, the son of the Almighty God, that you claim to worship, and not on the blood of goats and bulls, Hebrews 9:11-15, 8:1-13.
Christians are to be footstep followers of Jesus, 1Peter 2:21, 3:11, Romans 13:8-10.
Under the Mosaic Law Covenant no one could be counted as Perfect, but under The New Covenant, by Faith a Christian is declared Perfect Perpetually, Hebrews 10:1-22.
If you are truly Intellectually Honest, these Scriptures will show you why we should obey what the Bible says, because it is our only Hope for a Future in a paradise grander than any man can dream of, 1Corinthians 2:9.
Remember that all matters are to be estabolished by the mouth of two or three witnesses. Christianity has thousands of witnesses, and many are written in Hebrews chapter 11, and 12:1,2. Agape!!!

 

[wizanda]

that you claim to worship

I accept Yeshua's teachings, and love him as a member of my family; never worshiped God in any physical form.

If you are truly Intellectually Honest, these Scriptures will show you why we should obey what the Bible says

If we're intellectually honest we should notice Paul contradicts Yeshua... That John is made up most likely by the Sanhedrin... That talking snakes don't tell the truth, whilst God is made into a liar...

My understanding is the Bible is a morality test, to catch out people who are not intellectually honest.

Yeshua said not one bit of the Law shall be removed until all things are fulfilled (Matthew 5:18); thus fair enough the covenant was nullified, yet the Law, and the Curse on the whole of humanity (Isaiah 24, Revelation 22:3) still exists until the New Kingdom on Earth.

Thus if we're to be completely honest, we have to recognize some of the ancient history is evil in places, some of the books are not Godly, some of it is man made, and we've got to seek God outside of books (Matthew 6:19-21), as mankind is a mess.

In my opinion.

 

[David T]

Someone analysed the Bible and Quran to see which is more violent

Personally find this interesting that when based on a analytical perspective, it says the Jews have far more violent beliefs than Muslims; thus should either book be endorsed in society anymore, when they encourage such disgusting acts?

Like shouldn't we move on from the barbaric past that humans have had, instead of teach it to our children as religious values to live by.

In my opinion.

A local artist who is noted for his enviromental pantings here in the Northwest painted a small Painting of a clearcut. It wasn't well received.. So he painted a huge painting of the clear cut to make a point.

From a certain perspective barbarianism for us as a culture is resource efficency. So yea based on resource efficency the Muslims need to get with it!!!!

 

[David T]

wisanda,
You seem to be a thinker, but are you really, Intellectuality Honest?? If you were, you would get past the Mosaic Law Covenant and remember that Jesus came to earth to remove the Old Laws and begin a New Covenant that he instituted on the night before his death, Luke 22:14-20, 1Corinthians 11:23-26.
Under the New Covenant, we are to obey the Law of the Christ.
One very important law that we are to obey is the Golden Rule, that Jesus stated at Matthew 7:12, which says to do to others what you want them to do to yourself. You do not want to be killed, do you??? Then stop talking about the Old Mosaic Law Covenant, which no gentile was ever under, except a few Proselytes, and the Jews. With the death of Jesus, no person on earth is under The Mosaic Law Covenant. One of the main reasons the Jesus came to earth was to do away with the Mosaic Law Covenant, because everyone under that Covenant was under the Curse of Sin and Death, Galatians 3:1-14, This shows that we are no longer under the Covenant to Works, but under a Covenant of Faith, and through The New Covenant of Faith we are completely justified from our sins, all the things that we could not be forgiven under the Mosaic Law Covenant, Hebrews Acts 13:29-39. The New Covenant is much better than the. Ossicles Law Covenant, because it is based on the Life Blood of Jesus Christ, the son of the Almighty God, that you claim to worship, and not on the blood of goats and bulls, Hebrews 9:11-15, 8:1-13.
Christians are to be footstep followers of Jesus, 1Peter 2:21, 3:11, Romans 13:8-10.
Under the Mosaic Law Covenant no one could be counted as Perfect, but under The New Covenant, by Faith a Christian is declared Perfect Perpetually, Hebrews 10:1-22.
If you are truly Intellectually Honest, these Scriptures will show you why we should obey what the Bible says, because it is our only Hope for a Future in a paradise grander than any man can dream of, 1Corinthians 2:9.
Remember that all matters are to be estabolished by the mouth of two or three witnesses. Christianity has thousands of witnesses, and many are written in Hebrews chapter 11, and 12:1,2. Agape!!!

The bible has no lips. I actually checked I took and disected it, nothing. I decided to check into the science ce books as well. You would be shocked at what I discovered. Did you know under dissection they are identical!!!!! I don't get why people argue over book species all the time it seems crazy scientifically. If you dissect them they are exactly the same in fact they both say exactly the same thing. Crazy.

 

[David T]

A local artist who is noted for his enviromental pantings here in the Northwest painted a small Painting of a clearcut. It wasn't well received.. So he painted a huge painting of the clear cut to make a point.

From a certain perspective barbarianism for us as a culture is resource efficency but not seen as barbaric. So yea based on this cultures resource efficency reality the Muslims need to get with it!!!!

 

[Hawkins]

Someone analysed the Bible and Quran to see which is more violent

Personally find this interesting that when based on a analytical perspective, it says the Jews have far more violent beliefs than Muslims; thus should either book be endorsed in society anymore, when they encourage such disgusting acts?

Like shouldn't we move on from the barbaric past that humans have had, instead of teach it to our children as religious values to live by.

In my opinion.

What matters is not the violence itself but the reason behind which you apparently failed to speculate.

In a nutshell, the Jews would have been outnumbered and swallowed up by the more cruel Canaanites, who are the worshipers of Baal and false gods by killing their own children. God's only job here on earth is to save souls (including today's humans). If the Jews are wiped out by the Canaanites, all mankind will have to enter the eternal hell as judged by Law. The eradication of the Canaanites is for the survival and purity of the Jews for them to carry forward the message of God to reach today's humans and for their souls to be saved. That's why God instructed the Jews to make peace with whoever outside the border of Canaan but eliminate the Canaanites.

In terms of eternity, it does nothing good in extending the lives of the Canaanites, as they are the already dead (the already belonged to hell), to jeopardize God's plan of saving more human souls. It's God's job to maximize the salvation of human souls by carrying forward His salvation message to reach today's humans. The bottom line is, you can do whatever as long as God's message of salvation keeps going. If not, the purpose of the existence of this very planet earth is defeated. It signifies the end of everything in this world.

 

[ChristineM]

You must be talking about something else. In Roy Moore's case there has been no due process, no judgment, no case, and the (laughing) is a year book signature that no one will produce.

I honestly don't know what post your responding to. Or at least what part.

The only related point I saw was the statement by you:



1. We were not talking about the freedom of religion. We were talking about due process and the presumption of innocence. It is amazing that this was the closest you got to relevancy.
2. I think there is a grand total of one Christian Church in Korea and it is a total sham (like almost everything in the country) run by the state.

Keep in mind I wasn't talking about religious freedom but since you brought it up.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/18/north-korea-how-christians-survive-in-worlds-most-anti-christian-nation.html

Roy Moore was not mentioned, in your post I responded to seems you are moving the goalposts

I was responding to our post and you know it. Just because you don't have the honesty to accept facts is no ones problem but your own.

In NK there are 5 Christian churches, three Protestant churches, one Catholic church, and one Russian Orthodox church, 1.7% of the population are christian. Remember, it was america that made NK what it is today.

Fox... Ha, ha.

 

[Jumi]

Note :north Korea is largely a traditional Buddhist country with a high percentage of the population following Confucianism with some Korean shamanism and syncretic Chondogyo, there is also a Christian minority.

Those are mostly suppressed. There are some Christian churches in Pyongyang, Mosque and there are some traditional temples maintained in the countryside. People probably can't visit them very often or keep opinions that match those religions. Neither is atheism tolerated, you have to venerate the leaders and their family.

Also note that Article 14 of the NK constitution states "citizens of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea shall have the freedom of religious belief and of conducting religious services". So despite your intention NK has enshrined freedom of religion into law.

In practice, there you have to follow the state religion as well as any other you have or you might end up in a concentration camp.

1. We were not talking about the freedom of religion. We were talking about due process and the presumption of innocence. It is amazing that this was the closest you got to relevancy.
2. I think there is a grand total of one Christian Church in Korea and it is a total sham (like almost everything in the country) run by the state.

Keep in mind I wasn't talking about religious freedom but since you brought it up.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/18/north-korea-how-christians-survive-in-worlds-most-anti-christian-nation.html

The churches and other religions are mostly for show there and there more than one. But Christianity has it better than some other religions, since they need to keep a show up.

 

[ChristineM]

Those are mostly suppressed. There are some Christian churches in Pyongyang, Mosque and there are some traditional temples maintained in the countryside. People probably can't visit them very often or keep opinions that match those religions. Neither is atheism tolerated, you have to venerate the leaders and their family.

In practice, there you have to follow the state religion as well as any other you have or you might end up in a concentration camp.

The churches and other religions are mostly for show there and there more than one. But Christianity has it better than some other religions, since they need to keep a show up.

There is a lot of "probably"'s and speculation and fox hype
in there. The fact remains that the NK constitution guarantees freedom of religion

it is true that their leader is effectively a god. It makes no difference to the construction. It does make a difference to one god religions, that's their problem, not that of the country and its constitution.

I shall repeat part of my post #74
In NK there are 5 Christian churches, three Protestant churches, one Catholic church, and one Russian Orthodox church, 1.7% of the population are christian. Remember, it was america that made NK what it is today.

Edit : you wrote : In practice, there you have to follow the state religion as well as any other you have or you might end up in a concentration camp.

My reply : as opposed the some US states where you must be christian if you want to hold any sort of political position. Where you we be ostracised for not being the same christian faith as your neighbors.
.

 

[sealchan]

Violence is a reality of our past. Jews have been subject to wars with tribes, conquering by empires and persecution by dictators. The story the Bible tells is a good one but its violence needs to be in context of its time. If the Bible had continued to develop past the New Testament (as I think it should/could be) then we would continue to see violence perhaps but we could also see the strivings for peace that have gradually become more powerful (arguably).

 

[james bond]

So Muslims beheading Christians for idolatry is fine then, as they're doing it for their God?

Agreed if we created one new true world religion, and archived all these ancient barbaric ones, there might be a hope for world peace.

There are not historical facts to back up your claim, the majority of world fighting throughout history has been over land/power, where each opposing culture has generally had different religions... Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, Rome, Vikings, were all religious crusaders, thus your numbers are well off.

It isn't an assumption you can study ancient cultures such as Hittites, Canaanites, Sumerian, Babylonian, Roman, Carthaginian, etc.

Have you read the Bible, it isn't portrayed as suffering.

Unfortunately when quoting that, you're using a specific religious texts that stipulates additional factors; where it says it pleased YHVH for them to do these things.

It is just saying YHVH Elohim might not be the ultimate manifestor of reality, and is more like a representative of God...

Thus you implying all these things they did is justified as they did it for the true God, is only hearsay based on history.

Amos 5:27 Therefore will I cause you to go into captivityH1540 beyondH4480 H1973 Damascus,H1834 saithH559 the LORD,H3068 whose nameH8034 is The GodH430 of hosts.H6635

Amos 5:27 Hebrew Text Analysis

That has no word Almighty there, which is Shaddai (H7706), not Zebaot which is hosts (H6635), and it doesn't use the sinular term El (H410), it uses the Elohi (H430) which can be plural.

In my opinion.

>>w: There are not historical facts to back up your claim, the majority of world fighting throughout history has been over land/power, where each opposing culture has generally had different religions... Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, Rome, Vikings, were all religious crusaders, thus your numbers are well off.<<

I'll accept the numbers for religious wars and God telling his people to slaughter men, women and children such asl the Canaanites. That said, this Daily Mall article gives the lowdown. State atheism wins by a large margin.

From Stalin to Hitler, the most murderous regimes in the world
Hitler to Stalin: The most murderous regimes in the world | Daily Mail Online

 

[Muslim-UK]

If someone wrote about the trench wars in WWI, would that account not be extremely violent! If then the Bible describes without bias the wars of ancient times, does this historical account indicate that God approved of such?
Here I know what some shall answer with, namely, the conquest of the land Israel was given. However, take into account, that while God used Israel to take this land, it was a judgment carried out on the people living back then in those places who had succumbed to human sacrifices in their worship of their idols. Being killed in judgment is a different pickle entirely. If any of those individuals didn't deserve to die, God shall bring them back after judgment day.

Not true according to the Bible itself. 400 years had passed between the fighting between the Israelites and the Amalekites, yet Jesus orders the Israelites to raid the Amalekites with the following commands:

1 Samuel 15:
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.

400 Hundred Years, talk about holding a grudge against innocent descendants.

For this and other reasons, a prominent Atheist says the following:

Obviously I don't for a minute think GOD's words have been preserved in the Bible, and these are accounts written by blood thirsty men to justify Genocide. Men who incidentally think such passages are justified today:

Journalist Jeffrey Goldberg, writing in the New York Times Op-Ed section Saturday writes, "I recently asked one of his advisers to gauge for me the depth of Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu’s anxiety about Iran. His answer: 'Think Amalek.'"

Netanyahu Sees Iran as Amalek, Advisor Says

 

[Jumi]

There is a lot of "probably"'s and speculation and fox hype
in there. The fact remains that the NK constitution guarantees freedom of religion

No "Fox hype" on my posts. In practice the government does not.

it is true that their leader is effectively a god. It makes no difference to the construction. It does make a difference to one god religions, that's their problem, not that of the country and its constitution.

If you're an authoritarian nationalist who worships the leader and those of his family who are in good standing then you'd be fine, if you had enough food or time to rest.

I shall repeat part of my post #74
In NK there are 5 Christian churches, three Protestant churches, one Catholic church, and one Russian Orthodox church, 1.7% of the population are christian. Remember, it was america that made NK what it is today.

I'm not American and I did say there are more than one church there. I've watched videos of mass in multiple ones. My friend even visited NK.

My reply : as opposed the some US states where you must be christian if you want to hold any sort of political position. Where you we be ostracised for not being the same christian faith as your neighbors.

I don't think that's true in the US. There are multiple religions followers in political positions in that country.