The ONE book?

[Tonstad39]

As someone considering Buddhism as an active faith and apologies in advance if it sounds like I'm insulting you, but i've noticed many pieces of incoherent nonsense throughout the Bible that serve as an odd mix of fiction and spirituality.

Examples: The slaying of Goliath where David slays a giant causing the collapse of a tower prompting God to make the world speak different languages. In exodus when Moses parted the Red Sea freeing the Israelites from the Egyptians. In revelations when Jesus (the lamb?) unleashes the appocolypse with seven plagues before his father (God) reset everything as well as a new Jerusalem with eight gates made with gemstones.

Iv'e sifted through various forums and resources on Christian theology and looked at contradictory interperation of biblical events (The war in heaven that caused the fall of Lucifer that wasn't really a war because angels are spirits) (The discrepancy between god being a trinity, god and Jesus being separate entities & the idea of a Holy Spirit even being separate at all). The use of one book for the whole faith I've notices seems to be unique to Christianity and Islam, Judaism for instance uses the Tannakh in addition to the OT to extend upon practices and how it connects them to g-d.

With all this I have to ask several things: Why is this one book the backbone of your faith if it causes so many discrepancies within your faith? Are there better resources on the relation between god and his creations besides this one book? What is the innate holiness of the Bible that gives it the name "the holy bible"?

 

[Muslim-UK]

As a mainstream Muslim we take the Qur'an and Hadith literature. We also take the Biography or the Prophet pbuh and books from Scholars, however if anything seemingly contradicts with the message of the Qur'an, then we seek a Scholarly explanation before accepting or rejecting it.

I don't think all the stories in Bible are meant to be taken literally, but I'll let the people of the book explain for themselves.

 

[omega2xx]

As someone considering Buddhism as an active faith and apologies in advance if it sounds like I'm insulting you, but i've noticed many pieces of incoherent nonsense throughout the Bible that serve as an odd mix of fiction and spirituality.

Examples: The slaying of Goliath where David slays a giant causing the collapse of a tower prompting God to make the world speak different languages. In exodus when Moses parted the Red Sea freeing the Israelites from the Egyptians. In revelations when Jesus (the lamb?) unleashes the appocolypse with seven plagues before his father (God) reset everything as well as a new Jerusalem with eight gates made with gemstones.

Iv'e sifted through various forums and resources on Christian theology and looked at contradictory interperation of biblical events (The war in heaven that caused the fall of Lucifer that wasn't really a war because angels are spirits) (The discrepancy between god being a trinity, god and Jesus being separate entities & the idea of a Holy Spirit even being separate at all). The use of one book for the whole faith I've notices seems to be unique to Christianity and Islam, Judaism for instance uses the Tannakh in addition to the OT to extend upon practices and how it connects them to g-d.

With all this I have to ask several things: Why is this one book the backbone of your faith if it causes so many discrepancies within your faith? Are there better resources on the relation between god and his creations besides this one book? What is the innate holiness of the Bible that gives it the name "the holy bible"?

To understand the Bible one must be a Christian.

You have just proved the accuracy of I Cor 2:14 - But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them because they are spiritually apraised,

Thanks.

 

[omega2xx]

As a mainstream Muslim we take the Qur'an and Hadith literature. We also take the Biography or the Prophet pbuh and books from Scholars, however if anything seemingly contradicts with the message of the Qur'an, then we seek a Scholarly explanation before accepting or rejecting it.

I don't think all the stories in Bible are meant to be taken literally, but I'll let the people of the book explain for themselves.

You are right. Some stories are literal, some are figurative and may are both.Allegories are both literal and figurative.

 

[MJFlores]

As someone considering Buddhism as an active faith and apologies in advance if it sounds like I'm insulting you, but i've noticed many pieces of incoherent nonsense throughout the Bible that serve as an odd mix of fiction and spirituality.

Examples: The slaying of Goliath where David slays a giant causing the collapse of a tower prompting God to make the world speak different languages. In exodus when Moses parted the Red Sea freeing the Israelites from the Egyptians. In revelations when Jesus (the lamb?) unleashes the appocolypse with seven plagues before his father (God) reset everything as well as a new Jerusalem with eight gates made with gemstones.

Iv'e sifted through various forums and resources on Christian theology and looked at contradictory interperation of biblical events (The war in heaven that caused the fall of Lucifer that wasn't really a war because angels are spirits) (The discrepancy between god being a trinity, god and Jesus being separate entities & the idea of a Holy Spirit even being separate at all). The use of one book for the whole faith I've notices seems to be unique to Christianity and Islam, Judaism for instance uses the Tannakh in addition to the OT to extend upon practices and how it connects them to g-d.

With all this I have to ask several things: Why is this one book the backbone of your faith if it causes so many discrepancies within your faith? Are there better resources on the relation between god and his creations besides this one book? What is the innate holiness of the Bible that gives it the name "the holy bible"?

"The slaying of Goliath where David slays a giant causing the collapse of a tower prompting God to make the world speak different languages."

The tower of Babel came first and during this time even the grand parents of David and Goliath haven't been born.

It is not the book which is faulty but man's understanding which is at fault.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

To understand the Bible one must be a Christian.

You have just proved the accuracy of I Cor 2:14 - But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them because they are spiritually apraised,

Thanks.

I can be a christian within a minute because it is supposed to be based on faith according to a lot of protestant churches. If there is nothing I need to do to be saved, if the OP became a christian in two minutes, will he understand scripture or does it take more than just "being a christian" to understand the spiritual nature/authority of scripture (Christians aren't the only ones who believe scripture is written by god)?

 

[omega2xx]

I can be a christian within a minute because it is supposed to be based on faith according to a lot of protestant churches. If there is nothing I need to do to be saved, if the OP became a christian in two minutes, will he understand scripture or does it take more than just "being a christian" to understand the spiritual nature/authority of scripture (Christians aren't the only ones who believe scripture is written by god)?

No one, not even the most intelligent theologian understands all of the Bible completely. No one has perfect theology.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No one, not even the most intelligent theologian understands all of the Bible completely. No one has perfect theology.

I mean, in other words, do you have to be christian to understand the spiritual nature of the Bible?

When you say, "you have to be christian to know," and in some views you can be christian just by faith and conviction within a minute, do you all automatically get spiritual knowledge of the bible or can one understand the bible spiritually even though they don't follow it?

I mean, the bible is easy to understand spiritually. Everyone has different views.

 

[omega2xx]

I mean, in other words, do you have to be christian to understand the spiritual nature of the Bible?

That is what the Bible says(I Cor 2:14). Non-Christians can understand the literal truths in the Bible, but they will not believe it all---the flood, miracles, fulfilled prophecy etc. They cant understand the spiritual truths

When you say, "you have to be christian to know," and in some views you can be christian just by faith and conviction within a minute,

""Saved by faith" is really not Biblical. We are saved by God's grace(Eph 2:8).

do you all automatically get spiritual knowledge of the bible or can one understand the bible spiritually even though they don't follow it?

WE automatically get the ability to understand it. WE still need to read and study and pray for understanding.

I mean, the bible is easy to understand spiritually. Everyone has different views.

The fact that everyone has different view, including Christians, means the Bible is not easy to understand spiritually.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That is what the Bible says(I Cor 2:14). Non-Christians can understand the literal truths in the Bible, but they will not believe it all---the flood, miracles, fulfilled prophecy etc. They cant understand the spiritual truths

This is why I asked if I became "protestant" christian by grace in a minute, what protestant-feeling would wash over me that I have not had when I was confirmed as a Catholic?

I've read the bible with both spiritual and intellectual understanding. They both go hand in hand. Can't separate the two. If you don't understand what the word sacrifice means, you won't know the spiritual meaning behind it. If you know the spiritual meaning behind sacrifice but don't know the definition of the word, you can experience anything you call sacrifice but never understood it's actual meaning until you looked it up. You couldn't put the definition to the word so basically, when you read the bible, it becomes an idol of your feelings not actual scripture with actual words with actual meanings.

That gives you perspective of why the translators use specific words for their point.

""Saved by faith" is really not Biblical. We are saved by God's grace(Eph 2:8).

Can you be saved by grace in one minute? (Those all I know who say they are saved by faith also mean grace. They go hand in hand)

WE automatically get the ability to understand it. WE still need to read and study and pray for understanding.

Yes and no. We automatically get the urging to want to understand the power the Bible holds. We come to it from a different perspective than someone who has not heard of, seen, nor experienced christianity would. We have the want to put pieces together so the Bible conforms to our lives. We need the bible as we put these things together and they define our lives.

This can't be experienced overnight. It takes time. Many people (like a relationship) go through their honeymoon period, then something clicks and they know the truth compared to what society wants them to believe as truth. They learn to differentiate between what they feel is true and what others feel is true for them.

You can't automatically understand something spiritually. I read The Lotus Sutra, one of thousands of sacred scriptures orally transmitted from The Buddha through his disciples. Like Christ, The Buddha didn't write things down. Like Christ, he had disciples he spoke with and gave oral teachings that were once written. But the Bible is easier to understand, I just see it as false logically and spiritually speaking.

The fact that everyone has different view, including Christians, means the Bible is not easy to understand spiritually.

No. It just means the translators of the bible have different views and when we read different translations, we come away with different views.

It is easy to understand spiritually if you live it.

If you just read it, it takes a good while to see how it applies to your life (and all I mentioned above). If you live it in worship, devotion, and not just everyday life, it is easy to understand because you have a direct connection to god that no book can ever replace.

It is a totally different view than what you (assuming) and many protestants are used to when "searching the scriptures as if they hold eternal life" when Jesus said it's about him directly. You talk to him to get to The Father.

The bible doesn't hold spiritual knowledge. Spirituality comes from us. Your spirituality, as a christian, comes directly from christ.

If you can't tell the difference, in my opinion, that's using the Bible as an idol. I think learning what it means to live the bible is more important in worship and Mass than reading the Bible. Though, both go hand in hand.

 

[omega2xx]

This is why I asked if I became "protestant" christian by grace in a minute, what protestant-feeling would wash over me that I have not had when I was confirmed as a Catholic?

I have never heard a public testimony of someone's salvation where they mentioned something washing over them. It did not happen to me.

I've read the bible with both spiritual and intellectual understanding.
They both go hand in hand. Can't separate the two. If you don't understand what the word sacrifice means, you won't know the spiritual meaning behind it. If you know the spiritual meaning behind sacrifice but don't know the definition of the word, you can experience anything you call sacrifice but never understood it's actual meaning until you looked it up. You couldn't put the definition to the word so basically, when you read the bible, it becomes an idol of your feelings not actual scripture with actual words with actual meanings.

Actually they don't. The most intelligent non-believer in the world, will not understand the spiritual concepts, and the most ignorant cave man can with the Holy spirit guiding him

That gives you perspective of why the translators use specific words for their point.

Good translators do not make a point. They just translate.

Can you be saved by grace in one minute?

In a nano second.

(Those all I know who say they are saved by faith also mean grace. They go hand in hand)<<

Grace and faith are different. God saves us by His grace, we accept by faith that He has.

Yes and no. We automatically get the urging to want to understand the power the Bible holds. We come to it from a different perspective than someone who has not heard of, seen, nor experienced christianity would. We have the want to put pieces together so the Bible conforms to our lives. We need the bible as we put these things together and they define our lives.

IMO that is backwards. WE conform our lives to what the Bible says.

This can't be experienced overnight. It takes time. Many people (like a relationship) go through their honeymoon period, then something clicks and they know the truth compared to what society wants them to believe as truth. They learn to differentiate between what they feel is true and what others feel is true for them.
Right. No one can tell how I feel.

You can't automatically understand something spiritually. I read The Lotus Sutra, one of thousands of sacred scriptures orally transmitted from The Buddha through his disciples. Like Christ, The Buddha didn't write things down. Like Christ, he had disciples he spoke with and gave oral teachings that were once written. But the Bible is easier to understand, I just see it as false logically and spiritually speaking.

I know almost nothing abut Buddhism

No. It just means the translators of the bible have different views and when we read different translations, we come away with different views.

Good translators do not let the Biblical views influence their translations.

If you just read it, it takes a good while to see how it applies to your life (and all I mentioned above). If you live it in worship, devotion, and not just everyday life, it is easy to understand because you have a direct connection to god that no book can ever replace.

I basically ;agree.

It is a totally different view than what you (assuming) and many protestants are used to when "searching the scriptures as if they hold eternal life" when Jesus said it's about him directly. You talk to him to get to The Father.

Basically the Scriptures tell us bout God and Jesus and what they have done for that we couldn't do for ourselves.

The bible doesn't hold spiritual knowledge. Spirituality comes from us. Your spirituality, as a christian, comes directly from christ.

Christians are not spiritual people. They will be one day but not while on earth.

If you can't tell the difference, in my opinion, that's using the Bible as an idol. I think learning what it means to live the bible is more important in worship and Mass than reading the Bible. Though, both go hand in hand.

Conservative Christians do not worship the Bible.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I have never heard a public testimony of someone's salvation where they mentioned something washing over them. It did not happen to me.

It's an idiom. I can't think of a good word... maybe an immediate conviction of love, devotion, or a sense of feeling loved.

Actually they don't. The most intelligent non-believer in the world, will not understand the spiritual concepts, and the most ignorant cave man can with the Holy spirit guiding him

That is wrong. There are thousands of people in the world that I feel have more spiritual concepts and live them more than most christians in America. In the Philippines and other countries, they don't divide spirituality from everyday life. If you told them they had no spiritual concept of christ even if they were raised in it without believing what their family believes is just, well, disrespectful.

Spirituality is not a hard concept to understand. It is hard to live it. It is an action not an understanding. I understand the spiritual nature of Christianity, christ, god, and the holy spirit. I also know the spiritual nature of the bible because I lived it. I was not indoctrinated. I chose to practice, I went through conversion which is not a one night process but something you mentally prepare yourself to, and made the jump.

I honestly believe a lot of people who feel they are saved in a nano second are in an illusioned that they are saved. It's one thing to talk as if you know things spiritually. It's another thing to talk through experiences and actions. If you cannot do that, how can one believe you know something spiritual if you don't express it by how you practice it rather than what's in a book?

Good translators do not make a point. They just translate.

You cannot translate a language from one to another 100 percent correctly. I know that for a fact. If you don't live the bible, you're going off of other people's translations. Take it as truth if you will, but the truth isn't in the bible-that's idiolism-it's through christ (at least most non-bible idoled christians believe that).

In a nano second.

You must have had a conviction beforehand. A lot of people believe in christ beforehand bt don't have the words to describe their beliefs. Then they find christ and their convictions are confirmed in a nano second.

If you know nothing of christ, you cannot be automatically saved without some outside influence, instruction, or so have you.

You can't learn spirituality of christianity by a book. It's found through practice.

Where does Jesus say that you should depend on a book over christ and his father?

 

[Tonstad39]

The most intelligent non-believer in the world, will not understand the spiritual concepts, and the most ignorant cave man can with the Holy spirit guiding him

So if I'm understanding this: reading and fully understanding The Holy Bible is an exclusive club that Christians and only Christians can do because God commanded that the comphrehension of his holy work be encrypted to nonbelievers like premium cable channels to basic subscribers in the 1990's?

 

[omega2xx]

It's an idiom. I can't think of a good word... maybe an immediate conviction of love, devotion, or a sense of feeling loved.

You sed an idiom, which is not Biblical, but it may be valid. When jesus explained the Scriptures to the men on the road to Emmaus, their hearts burned within them(Lk 24:32).

That is wrong. There are thousands of people in the world that I feel have more spiritual concepts and live them more than most christians in America. In the Philippines and other countries, they don't divide spirituality from everyday life. If you told them they had no spiritual concept of christ even if they were raised in it without believing what their family believes is just, well, disrespectful.

If you want to use secular reasoning that fine but it is not Biblical. Truth is never disrespectful.

Spirituality is not a hard concept to understand. It is hard to live it. It is an action not an understanding. I understand the spiritual nature of Christianity, christ, god, and the holy spirit. I also know the spiritual nature of the bible because I lived it. I was not indoctrinated. I chose to practice, I went through conversion which is not a one night process but something you mentally prepare yourself to, and made the jump.

True spiritual concepts are and non Christians can't understand them(1 Cor 2:14

I honestly believe a lot of people who feel they are saved in a nano second are in an illusioned that they are saved. It's one thing to talk as if you know things spiritually. It's another thing to talk through experiences and actions. If you cannot do that, how can one believe you know something spiritual if you don't express it by how you practice it rather than what's in a book?

Spiritual concepts are about understanding, not about doing.

You cannot translate a language from one to another 100 percent correctly. I know that for a fact. If you don't live the bible, you're going off of other people's translations. Take it as truth if you will, but the truth isn't in the bible-that's idiolism-it's through christ (at least most non-bible idoled christians believe that).

Are you living all of the Bible?

You must have had a conviction beforehand. A lot of people believe in christ beforehand bt don't have the words to describe their beliefs. Then they find christ and their convictions are confirmed in a nano second.

I didn't.

If you know nothing of christ, you cannot be automatically saved without some outside influence, instruction, or so have you.

Basically true, but God can and does save anyone and they do not need an outside influence

You can't learn spirituality of christianity by a book. It's found through practice.

The Bible gives the rules to find spiritually

Where does Jesus say that you should depend on a book over christ and his father?

Who teaches that? Where does the Bible say spiritually is learned by our conduct?

 

[omega2xx]

So if I'm understanding this: reading and fully understanding The Holy Bible is an exclusive club that Christians and only Christians can do because God commanded that the comphrehension of his holy work be encrypted to nonbelievers like premium cable channels to basic subscribers in the 1990's?

That is what the Bible says(I Cor 2:14) and it is proven every day in this forum.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Are you living all of the Bible?

When I lived the bible, I knew spiritually (meaning body/mind/heart together) what the bible taught and how to live it without needing to study it as if the words are more important than the actual body/people of christ.

Living the bible is making things pretty simple. You can use what you call spiritual words to define a very simple religion, but now that I know the simplicity of the faith, I was able to understand and live it more deeply. I followed the bible by the simple nature of its teaching. If you can't find that simple nature, then of course you will be searching but not quite get to that understanding.

Idioms are words or phrases that read one way but mean something else behind it. "Christ talked to me through the bible" can be used as an idiom. Christ can't actually talk to you through words. That's silly. You get inspiration or however you want to call it through the words of the bible. But the English languages uses a lot of idioms to convey points.

It is not secular. It is the English language. I don't know if English is your native language or you've studied it, but in general, it has nothing to do with the bible or religion. I was expressing a point.

Spirituality of the bible isn't complex. It is very simple if you read it without thinking you are limited in your understanding all because you are human.

If god is telling you X, and you believe he is telling you X, why make it more complicated than what it is?

 

[omega2xx]

When I lived the bible, I knew spiritually (meaning body/mind/heart together) what the bible taught and how to live it without needing to study it as if the words are more important than the actual body/people of christ.

Living the bible is making things pretty simple. You can use what you call spiritual words to define a very simple religion, but now that I know the simplicity of the faith, I was able to understand and live it more deeply. I followed the bible by the simple nature of its teaching. If you can't find that simple nature, then of course you will be searching but not quite get to that understanding.

Idioms are words or phrases that read one way but mean something else behind it. "Christ talked to me through the bible" can be used as an idiom. Christ can't actually talk to you through words. That's silly. You get inspiration or however you want to call it through the words of the bible. But the English languages uses a lot of idioms to convey points.

It is not secular. It is the English language. I don't know if English is your native language or you've studied it, but in general, it has nothing to do with the bible or religion. I was expressing a point.

Spirituality of the bible isn't complex. It is very simple if you read it without thinking you are limited in your understanding all because you are human.

If god is telling you X, and you believe he is telling you X, why make it more complicated than what it is?

Living the Bible is accepting what God says is a sin and trying to avoid what He calls sin.

Living the Bible is accepting all of what It says by study and prayer, not just reading it even if you do it thinking about what you read.

If you think God is telling you X and it is not reinforced in The Bible, get a hearing aid, you are not hearing Him rightly.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Living the Bible is accepting what God says is a sin and trying to avoid what He calls sin.

Living the Bible is accepting all of what It says by study and prayer, not just reading it even if you do it thinking about what you read.

If you think God is telling you X and it is not reinforced in The Bible, get a hearing aid, you are not hearing Him rightly.

Living the Bible is not "depending on scripture as if it has eternal life."

It's actually having a relationship with Christ not the red letters of the bible. It's praying to god himself, not reading prayers already written in, say Psalms. It's actually thinking of others in action before yourself not repeating what the disciples wrote about christ. You won't know what they say is true unless you physically live it.

Christ did not depend on the Law of Moses to worship god. He depended on god. He didn't even think good of himself compared to god why would a christian.

That is where humility comes from. Instead of judging who lives the bible and who does not, maybe let god take care of that.

Also, if jesus came to you in person, and he said he was jesus, would you believe him or hurry to your bible first?

 

[omega2xx]

Living the Bible is not "depending on scripture as if it has eternal life."

It's actually having a relationship with Christ not the red letters of the bible. It's praying to god himself, not reading prayers already written in, say Psalms. It's actually thinking of others in action before yourself not repeating what the disciples wrote about christ. You won't know what they say is true unless you physically live it.

Christ did not depend on the Law of Moses to worship god. He depended on god. He didn't even think good of himself compared to god why would a christian.

That is where humility comes from. Instead of judging who lives the bible and who does not, maybe let god take care of that.

Also, if jesus came to you in person, and he said he was jesus, would you believe him or hurry to your bible first?

Living the Bible is accepting what all of is says and trying to be obedient. Obedience is one way we worship God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Living the Bible is accepting what all of is says and trying to be obedient. Obedience is one way we worship God.

Living the bible isn't depending on it as if it has eternal life.

If jesus came in front of you and you had your bible, he told you he was jesus would you believe jesus or look in your bible?