The Only Way To Escape Hell

[Ben Masada]

Mmmmm, nope. Your metaphor was pretty ridiculous.

And your imagination terribly poor.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

And your imagination terribly poor.

Actually, I'm a fantasy writer, so I'd say my imagination is pretty damn good.

 

[Ben Masada]

Actually, I'm a fantasy writer, so I'd say my imagination is pretty damn good.

No wonder you are not sure about anything. It must be terrible to doubt everything.

 

[opuntia]

Moses brought forth a law from God which was en-clothed in the Ten Commandments and the instructions that followed. This law is called the law of Moses in Christian circles.

Jesus brought forth another law called the Gospel law. This law is considered to supersede the Mosaic law, so Christians do not feel bound by the Mosaic law but by the Gospel law. Moses and the prophets are good for certain instructions but do not answer questions concerning Christian theology. Paul is considered one of the great instructors of Christianity and henceforth relied upon by Christians. If you want a deeper understanding of Christianity then the writings of Paul are prerequisite reading.

On another note. When Jesus was communicating with the Jewish elders, there was no New Testament or the writings of Paul, there was only Moses and the prophets. Whenever we read of "Moses and the prophets," we may understand that the Christian writers were referring to the then-present scriptures, i.e. Tanakh or Old Testament. See What Bible Did Jesus Use

 

[Ben Masada]

Moses brought forth a law from God which was en-clothed in the Ten Commandments and the instructions that followed. This law is called the law of Moses in Christian circles.

Jesus brought forth another law called the Gospel law. This law is considered to supersede the Mosaic law, so Christians do not feel bound by the Mosaic law but by the Gospel law. Moses and the prophets are good for certain instructions but do not answer questions concerning Christian theology. Paul is considered one of the great instructors of Christianity and henceforth relied upon by Christians. If you want a deeper understanding of Christianity then the writings of Paul are prerequisite reading.

On another note. When Jesus was communicating with the Jewish elders, there was no New Testament or the writings of Paul, there was only Moses and the prophets. Whenever we read of "Moses and the prophets," we may understand that the Christian writers were referring to the then-present scriptures, i.e. Tanakh or Old Testament. See What Bible Did Jesus Use

I can't agree with you more.

 

[Masourga]

Who said anything about religious laws? See what your arrogance took you to? With a bite on the tongue for speaking too fast without thinking. The law of cause and effect includes all kinds of behavior, either religious or civic.

There's a problem with your ideas stated here. "cause and effect" are only present in "the law" when there exists an authority to impose the "effect" on you. For instance - let's say you are the last person on Earth. At that point there are absolutely NO consequences to your actions in the civic sense whatsoever - no one there to punish you for anything, regardless how "bad" it would have been considered before you were alone - for instance "stealing" anything and everything you see, ruthlessly hunting the other creatures of the Earth without regulation, setting an entire forest on fire, destroying man-made property, etc. And as even you seem to understand, religious repercussions are only a very slight possibility at best.

So, it would seem to me that we're only tied to the cause and effects of "the law" when there are others around us... which certainly make them far less than absolute. Does "law" exist? Sure. But it's not some immutable/universal truth. Not hardly.

 

[Ben Masada]

There's a problem with your ideas stated here. "cause and effect" are only present in "the law" when there exists an authority to impose the "effect" on you. For instance - let's say you are the last person on Earth. At that point there are absolutely NO consequences to your actions in the civic sense whatsoever - no one there to punish you for anything, regardless how "bad" it would have been considered before you were alone - for instance "stealing" anything and everything you see, ruthlessly hunting the other creatures of the Earth without regulation, setting an entire forest on fire, destroying man-made property, etc. And as even you seem to understand, religious repercussions are only a very slight possibility at best.

So, it would seem to me that we're only tied to the cause and effects of "the law" when there are others around us... which certainly make them far less than absolute. Does "law" exist? Sure. But it's not some immutable/universal truth. Not hardly.

I can't believe you do not understand the law of cause and effect. Cause your finger to touch the fire and you will suffer the effect of that cause. A babe will understand what I am talking about. That's what I mean by cause and effect. Commit a transgression and you will pay for it, if not immediately, somehow later on. Yes, go ahead and set fire in the forest and tell me if you won't somehow have to pay for it. Cross the red light. If you are not caught after the first transgression, you will have much less fear to do it again until you have to pay for it. I think it is enough. You must understand by now what I mean by law of cause and effect. That's the natural law we all all under.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I can't believe you do not understand the law of cause and effect. Cause your finger to touch the fire and you will suffer the effect of that cause. A babe will understand what I am talking about. That's what I mean by cause and effect. Commit a transgression and you will pay for it, if not immediately, somehow later on.

That doesn't sound like cause and effect to me. That sounds like karma, which is a completely different concept.

 

[doppelganger]

Actually it's the Law of Effect-Cause.

Contemplate it on the Tree of Woe.

 

[Masourga]

I can't believe you do not understand the law of cause and effect. Cause your finger to touch the fire and you will suffer the effect of that cause. A babe will understand what I am talking about. That's what I mean by cause and effect. Commit a transgression and you will pay for it, if not immediately, somehow later on. Yes, go ahead and set fire in the forest and tell me if you won't somehow have to pay for it. Cross the red light. If you are not caught after the first transgression, you will have much less fear to do it again until you have to pay for it. I think it is enough. You must understand by now what I mean by law of cause and effect. That's the natural law we all all under.

You've done again what you seem to do a lot of from what I have read of your threads/posts- that is, read what you wanted to read into my message so that it didn't conflict with what you seem to feel is your "unfailing" logic and wisdom. What I was referring to in my post was your specific comment on cause and effect as it pertains to religiousand civiceffects based on any cause.

Proof that you didn't really understand at all what I posted (assuming you even really read it, rather than just skimming - because why would you waste your time reading someone's opinion that differs from your own, right? After all, your logic and wisdom are unfailing! Durrr.....) is your comment about the red-light. I was specifically pointing to the case where you are the last person on Earth to disprove the certainty of "law" (again as it pertains to the religious/civic arenas), so no, not in the least would there be ANYONE to impose any sort of punishment on you for running a red-light. In the case where you are the last person left on Earth, a red-light means about as much as a pile of rabbit poo. Even less so.

And finally, back on the forest fire notion - if you aren't anywhere near the fire as it takes hold, and you are the last person on Earth, there will be no "paying for it". Not in the least. In what way are you going to have to pay? There is no one to "catch" you. No animals are going to even comprehend what it is that happened - so no vengeance imminent from that angle. Since you are the only human in existence there is no shortage of other places to go for resources. There is literally nothing that is going to happen to you as a result of setting the fire (again - given you are the last person on Earth) unless you are somehow involved in it or close enough to have a problem.

Next time, I suggest you READ. And when you do... COMPREHEND.

 

[Ben Masada]

That doesn't sound like cause and effect to me. That sounds like karma, which is a completely different concept.

I don't think so. In Hinduism or Buddhism karma is the total effect of one's actions during the successive phases of one's existence regarded as determining one's destiny. That's not so according to Judaism. The law of cause and effect has nothing to do with the fate of a human being, but a matter of everyday life.