The Original Sin: who is to blame?

[Bethsheba Ashe]

Gematria of Genesis = 2701

Beg pardon. What?

[edit]
Oh I see. You've calculated the whole line of Genesis 1:1, including the verb and the et & v'et. Don't you think that lacks a certain discrimination? You're also using the wrong gematria for the bible. And that stuff with the triangles and 37 is just pure nonsense.

 

[dybmh]

Can I 'prove' something mathematically?

Gematria of Genesis = 2701 (37 x 73)

This is NOT your proof.

You did not prove anything.

 

[dybmh]

Beg pardon. What?

This is precisely what I am talking about. 9-18-1 assumes and believes strongly that the numbering system he is using is correct. But he has no evidence to support it. It is a strongly held belief. Nothing more.

 

[9-18-1]

Of course, it is belief based. All religious/supernatural concepts are belief based.

You said, "They don't teach any of these things in the monotheisms." OK, where are these things taught?

As I asked previously: Is this something you came up with on your own or are there other people that actually believe this?

Not necessarily.

I can't point you anywhere: I didn't get them from a place on the "outside" but used a number of "outside" resources to put it all together. I do this with my conscience in meditation.

It is not "belief"-based: I reduce things into yes/no questions. Rather than good/evil judgments, I simply ask black-and-white questions that resolve what reality reflects. I can give examples of questions I ask, then allow meditation to resolve:

What is the central "claim" of Islam?
What does Islam "believe" about the Qur'an?
Are there any other religions which "believe" the same about their own book?
"Poofs" offered by Islam?
"Explanations" offered by Islam?
"Sources" allowed/disallowed (censored) by Islam?
How did Muhammad die?
Who did Muhammad appoint his successor (if any)?
Why did Muhammad commit genocide on Jews?
Why did Hitler commit genocide on Jews?
How are these two figures "related"?
Why did Dr. Carl Jung compare the rise of Hitler to the rise of Muhammad?
What must every Muslim do in order to join Islam?
Can the testimony of a dead man possibly be true?
How closely does each religious 'state' follow the Ten Commandments?
What happens if a person "believes" something that is not true.
What happens if someone "testifies" to something that is false?
What happens if a person places a particular false "belief" as a principle guiding factor?
What happens if a person places a necessarily true "testimony" as a principle guiding factor?
Whose "testimony" between the former two is more likely to be "true"?
Is "belief" a virtue?
Should "beliefs" which are known to be false be protected by any state?
Who protects "belief"-based states?
Why are "belief"-based states "protected"?
What is an "idol"
What is "idol worship"?
Do any "belief"-based states use central figures (ie. "idols") as truly authoritative?
What is a paradox?
How does peace become war?
What does war become peace?
What is 'peace'?
Without war?
etc.

Con - as or applied to the self.
Science - inquiry.
Self - inquiry.
Con - science.

The quality of the conscience will always be reflected by the questions it can spontaneously form from the conscious being that is 'I AM'. I am, simply.

Do not identify with body - do not identify with mind - just 'I am' and use conscience.

When choices are made / acted upon:

Conscience + choice = consciousness

and choice begins with... what?

To be... or not to be, first of all.
Second... ?

I choose to attempt to solve Abrahamic "problem" which (after finding there is no potent Abrahamic god) lead me to a deeper problem: "BELIEF".

"BELIEF" is not a virtue. In fact, it might be satanic. Binds, binds, binds, "beliefs" that are not actually true. Entire empires build on idols requiring testimonies of them. More "belief" and more "belief".

It's like... wake up people. That the Torah has multiple authors (man-made) is enough to bring down the entire Abrahamic house. Yeah, it is mythology, and the stuff that survived from Old Egypt is really great, but there was no Muslim/Hebrew Noah/Nuach. This mythical flood story is all over the place.

This shouldn't be a bad thing.. it should be celebrated that this flood story has some potency to it: of course, if read mythologically (ie. a real truth of life itself).

That is why I made the Ark of Noah thread... the Ark is the Tree of Life. It is used to 'navigate' for the upcoming patriarchs which culminate into Moses (born of the water): who sees the burnish bush (fire from water makes it to top of mountain) and is told to liberate Egypt, 'I AM' as having sent him. It is a Hebrew mythological story about eliminating all of the identity/ego and realizing the power of the simple 'I AM' which everyone has... buried under whatever identities they take on.

I am...

...a Jew, a Christian, a Muslim, an atheist, an agnostic, a Hindu, an American, a this, a that, a this, a that etc. but this is all taken on as identity.

If 'I am' were a light bulb (it technically is the light of the world) the shade is the identity. The light is pure until it hits the shade, but the shade absorbs the light, and the light that passes through is shaded. As the light is 'I am' the shade is the identity ones adopts. 'I am' is the light of the world.

When an 'I am' man
And an 'I am' woman
Are in possession of:
A shared will <object>
to bestow, to receive
this is aur (light)
ein soph
without limitation.

Literally 'no-thing'.
Just light, light, light,
without end.

So who is divided?
Whence enmity? Hatred? Divisiveness?
Us vs. them? "Believer" vs. "unbeliever"
Is "belief" a virtue?

What happens when someone identifies with/as a "belief" and places their entire being into it?
What would happen if the creation began to reflect a reality far removed from the "belief"?
etc.

Judaism needs to come clean on it's falsification of history. This falsification (and problematic supposition to be of divine origin) has produced/birthed Islam which is perpetuating the "believer" vs. "unbeliever" problem. If Judaism does not admit its mistake, Islam will continue to destroy Christianity and wage war against all of humanity: installing the Sharia based on a forged book and idol Muhammad.

If Judaism admits its falsity, and declares the Torah not of divine origin, the same standard of evidence must necessarily be placed upon the Qur'an which... likewise will fail miserably to prove it is somehow divine, despite it now containing a false claim that the Torah was "delivered" rather than written by man.

Even given this, I still grant the "possibility" that there is a G-d: I naturally assume it as that is what I yield the totality of my ignorance (esp. re: knowledge of good and evil). However, it is in this attitude I learn what is true from what is untrue, as opposed to what is good from what is evil, because these have no real meaning to me. Understanding how they work/balance can not be known any more by me than my own ability to avoid such polarization within myself. The problem is, many people take "offense" to my outright state that Islam is "false" or Judaism is "false". They are identified with their "belief" thus must protect/defend it.

 

[9-18-1]

This is NOT your proof.

You did not prove anything.

Correct - hence 'prove' instead of prove.

But I'm glad it triggered you.

This is precisely what I am talking about. 9-18-1 assumes and believes strongly that the numbering system he is using is correct. But he has no evidence to support it. It is a strongly held belief. Nothing more.

LOL

You can't read tone over internet - how do you 'know' I didn't post that as a joke to set you off?

Am I to "believe" you wouldn't fall for it?

"BELIEF" IS NOT A VIRTUE

 

[dybmh]

I can't point you anywhere: I didn't get them from a place on the "outside" but used a number of "outside" resources to put it all together. I do this with my conscience in meditation.

Plagiarism mixed with meditation?

 

[dybmh]

You can't read tone over internet - how do you 'know' I didn't post that as a joke to set you off?

OK

So does this mean that your posts are a mixture of fact and fiction, some jokes intended as bait?

If so, then this whole thread is indeed a farce?

I called it.

This entire OP and concept of this thread is a farce. The arguments presented by the OP are almost all belief.

 

[dybmh]

hyperlink >>> wikipedia - Internet troll

"...posts messages in an online community with intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses... for the troll's amusement or a specific gain."

Oh boy, here comes the Jew.

Hate speech.... And it's ad hominem:

Suppose I did it to see if it triggered you and see if you'd pick up and use it against me.

You can't read tone over internet - how do you 'know' I didn't post that as a joke to set you off?

 

[Faithofchristian]

The shame of it is that some Christian denominations are so anti-intellect that they have to teach that Satan is real.. as in the Debil made me do it.

Its like teaching Serpent Seed doctrine or the Rapture or that a global flood is history.

If you can't handle it, that's your problem

 

[Faithofchristian]

All knowing is omniscience.
All powerful is omnipotence.

You should know the difference between the two.

Your holy scripture says God created the entire universe and everything in it. That, by definition, includes/ Satan/Lucifer. If God can flood the entire earth, as it says in your holy scripture, and kill almost all humans and almost all animals, then surely he is capable of eliminating one wayward cherub.

He hasn't. That makes it clear He doesn't want to.

Can you provide and prove that God flooded the whole earth, where's your proof

As there's no where in the Bible that states the whole earth as being flooded over

Maybe before you repeat what you heard, you do your own investigation.

 

[Faithofchristian]

When you mistakenly thought I was saying that God is omniscient, you called me out by indicating that there is nothing in scripture that says God is omniscient.

Now, by the same criteria, I must call you out. Where in your holy scripture does it state that "Lucifer was created million of years before Adam and Eve were created"?

There are many places, if you care to read them and do your own investigation on the subject.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

I just found the ignore button. Peace on earth. Happy Passover.

 

[Faithofchristian]

You're trying to read that - I indicated [reflect the sentiments at the time] as an independent observer from it.

You are now trying to label me an antisemite because... that's all people who can't stand criticism do. Read into it: you're just ANTI-(whatever I am).

This pathetic projection is a thousands year old illness from the Canaanites - Judaism inherited it and gave it to the Muhammadans. No, not "semitic" - Canaanite. That is exactly what projectors do.

With respect, of course - perhaps you could tell me what the requirements are for the messiah? Obviously the Jews rejected Muhammad, which I agree with.

That is why, in fact, I find Judaism to be "closer" to the truth than Islam, which is 100% backwards and f*cked.

But I find so many Jews that don't understand their own scriptures, and instead of listening, they start getting offended and shunning because a non-Jew is speaking. It's pathetic, as I said. The cowardice is as unrelenting as the frustrations one has suffering it.



Case in point - closed dogmatic mind.

He doesn't even realize why Abram was sent out of the land of Ur - governed by the moon goddess Sin - in order to see a new land. Sin is the emotions - when one is "dwelling" in their own emotions, G-d can not do anything with that person at all, because their own emotions become yetzer ha ra - binds (which I will get to below).

Instead of trying to have a neutral conversation with such people, despite being referred to as a Jew (which should not be taken as offense neither read into how one may have "meant" it) their own emotions become the barrier, and enmity arises, whence Canaan(ites) try to project that enmity outward in the form of sacrifice own sins of tribe/person. This behavior defines the "dark ages" of man.

View attachment 28391

Humanity is still in the "dark ages" - and will never get out until it abandons the idol-based institutions (ie. placing a man as insurpassable) which includes Christianity and Islam.

The "believer" vs. "unbeliever" division defines the principle catalyst of god-based wars.

Is "belief" a virtue? Piscean age fish: "I BELIEVE" and "I KNOW"
Which is superior?



This is a myth story, but what does it mean? What practical application does it have to a being today?



It is mythology.

Lucifer is the sexual energy of a being - it can be used for good or evil depending on how it is utilized / acted upon (via CHOICE). This is the Edenic state prior to the fall: Adam and Eve had not yet touched or eaten from the tree of KNOWLEDGE of [GOOD AND EVIL].

Eve is the desire for sex: when it feeds the brain (Adam), the lower organ begins to take control of the higher which reflects that person's own yetzer ha ra: satan.

View attachment 28392



And this is why I find Judaism "more correct" than Christianity/Islam: the scapegoating religions that try to export this "evil" onto other people like... messiahs.

However, I do contest the entire "meshaich" notion in Judaism, because that is the genesis of the scapegoating itself: someone will come to save us!

Now we know the Torah has multiple (human) authors, and Islam inherited the idea of claiming to be in possession of the perfect word of god from Judaism: the Torah being created at the foundation of the universe.

Look what that has lead to... sustained by the great Satan itself: "BELIEF".

What is the role of Satan in the mythology? To make as many people "BELIEVE" he is god, when he is not.

This is how I realized "belief" is not a virtue - it is a satanic vice.

Any "believers" out there?



This is true - there was no Jewish Moses (Egyptian name).

It was Akhunatun - he lead his Atun cult out of Egypt which mixed with the Canaanite El and became YHVH Elohim: one big giant MESS of MONOTHEISMS.

Until the Jews understand their wrongdoing and falsification of history, I don't even think a Potent God would have mercy on them... I certainly wouldn't. A 3300-year-old-lie that has caused the lives of... wow.

This is where real supremacism comes from: tribal mentalities adopting their tribe is superior to all tribes. This entire global war-terrain is one giant tribal war being sucked into the Judeo-Islam conflict in the M/E (along with the stupidity of Christianity). All over what?

"BELIEF"



See above for Lucifer, and one question.

Is it remotely possible to give/bear an accurate and necessarily true testimony of a dead man; having been dead even before the giver of the testimony is born?

Think in terms of basic principles: testimony of something not directly witnessed.

Now just think:
What is the Christian testimony of faith? Testimony of Jesus' Resurrection?
What is the Islamic testimony of faith? Testimony of Muhammad's Allah?

Exodus 20:16
לא תענה ברעך עד שקר
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour

This is in the rock/stone, is it not, if you "believe"? Even if one "believes" this is God's Law, this commandment is called into question every single time a Christian/Muslim joins their respective faiths.

For either testimonies of faith, Christian or Islamic, true, or false? A Potent and/or All-Knowing God would know. It is possible, however, for human beings to also know, which brings them closer to such a Potent God. Hence, the Ten Commandments are given after the bondage is lifted. Remember how I suggested the Torah can be read backwards? Suppose the Ten Commandments themselves liberate, and the Ten Plagues are the consequences of breaking them? Hmmm... how to test? Suppose, then, each person receives their own abundance of "plagues" proportional to their following/breaking them?

This is why a Potent God would know: even It can/will hold those to account for what they themselves "claim" and/or "believe" is the authority, even if not true (ie. not the Potent God). Also, trying to apply a standard of scrutiny to another without applying that same standard to ones own - even Christians don't hold to the teaching of Jesus "judge not lest ye be judged" as this leads to the same scapegoating illness from the Canaanites. See why Jesus opposed the Jews? What he taught was true, but calling out the hypocrite Jews for having lies as fathers. Nothing has changed - same world.

If Muslims claim Allah is the same as the God of Abraham, and
if Christians claim Jesus is one with/as the God of Abraham, and
they are both wrong given a false testimony was required to "BELIEVE" these things,
a Potent God would "know" this, too.

This is why 'I AM' is what Moses needed to "know" before going to Egypt to deal with the Pharoah to release his people: all of the children of traumas suffered in the past and now. They have to be discarded and simply 'I AM' - only then does one see asher ehyeh on the other side: not polluted by emotions - remember Abram, and even before Abram 'I AM': the same Jesus taught.

Suppose, however, there is a Potent God behind 'I AM' that is ehyeh asher ehyeh?

There is only one: the other side/reflection of each their own 'I AM'. Therefor, the kingdom of heaven is indeed within: not without. Graven images in the heavens? Paradise on a cloud? 72 virgin women? These are not godly people - they are animals.

Jews don't "hide" behind rocks: they don't have to. When they "know" the rocks, the rocks protect them for keeping to it: the ten commandments are designed to liberate if even in bondage. Everyone has their own Egypt to liberate once 'I AM' is known and understood.

It is all in 'I AM': the rest is identity that can be shed by ones own will. This is the sovereignty that Moses needed to learn through his own willpower: how to be in control of ones own, if ever to fall only to come back stronger with more understanding, wisdom, and ever-searching for the crown of life: to 'know' the truth of the way of life, which is in 'I AM'.

No, not me, personally - the 'I AM' that is in each their own. That's where Christians get all f*cked up and start worshiping a Greek idol. If only they understood what he was actually saying... but, no, m'Jesus! Don't touch my Jesus!

He was a failure on the cross, indeed. 2-000-year-old scapegoat for everyone else's sins. The value of one man's life worth the shedding of blood of hundreds of millions (esp. when you factor in Islam is a Christian heresy!) all over...what?

THIS IS WHY "BELIEF" IS NOT A VIRTUE

Do you see "I believe that I believe" in the name of god?
Or... God "believed" there to be light, and light was to be "believed" in?

This epoch is separating "believers" vs. "unbelievers".
Hint: only one side "wins".

You mean to tell me that it took you all this and still said nothing of an intelligent

 

[ecco]

Can I 'prove' something mathematically?

View attachment 28412

I don't know, can you?

Your diagram certainly proves nothing mathematically. In fact, mathematics proves it's just made up nonsense.

You cannot put an equilateral angle with an area of 703 inside three equilateral angles whose areas are each 666.

Your picture can only represent four triangles of equal dimensions.

 

[ecco]

Rough translation for non Hebrew speakers.

And G-d spoke, here is Light, and there was Light.

And ec-o spoke while lighting the candle, "here is light" and there was light.


What's your point?

 

[dybmh]

My Friends: Please do not take 9-18-1's posts too seriously. By his own admission he is posting to provoke a response.

Also, he does not do very thorough research.

9-18-1 is making assumptions based on a belief that the number 666 is bad.

the number 666 is not necessarily bad.

In fact, the number 666 according to traditional Kabbalah and Jewish Mysticism is not bad. Judaism does not believe in "the beast".

Here is an simple example of how authentic Jewish Mystism addresses the number 666.

Per Prof. Zev bar-Lev, Dept. of Linguistics & Oriental Languages in San Diego State University:

"The number 666 has significance as the numerical value of the Hebrew verse: "Ata yigdal na koach Ado-nai -- Now, I pray, let the Power of my Lord be great." (Numbers 14:17). This was Moshe's prayer invoking Divine Mercy on behalf of the Jewish People."

hyperlink >>> ohr.edu - Six Six Six

It is a number related to healing. Not to the beast. There is nothing wrong with attributing it to "the beast"; but 9-18-1 claims to use this belief as part of proving something.

And that is a problem; using belief as evidence for proving something is one thing 9-18-1 is repeatedly trying to discourage.

 

[ecco]

Did I mention Hitler?

No. I did not.

If you can't follow the thread, that is not my problem.

Hitler may well have been atheist; I think he was.

Your opinion is worthless as it is based on ignorance.

However, he used religion rather frequently in his politics, and as far as I am aware, Nazi Germany did not have 'state atheism.' Hitler used any means he could to rile up the mob, and that did indeed include religion, in particular, Christianity.

Specifically the writings of the founder of the Protestant offshoot, Martin Luther.

He was the ultimate hypocrite. He was not, however, 'anti-theist.' At least, not while he was in power. He might have become so, eventually, but then again, perhaps not. A stance on religion is too useful, whether one waves the "God is on our side" flag or "religion is the opiate of the people and we have to get rid of it and of the believers in order to have a proper society."

Do you even understand what you write? Which of those two quoted slogans was ever used as a battle cry? "God is on our side" was used as the battle cry when Christians fought Muslims and when Protestants fought Catholics. "religion is the opiate of the people ..." was never used as a battle cry.

Hitler also was not the most murderous 'dictator' of the twentieth century. He actually comes in at around third, after Stalin and Mao, and they DID have 'state atheism,' or 'anti-theism.'

This has been discussed ad nauseam.

Uh, what made you think I was even thinking about Hitler, when I never mentioned him? You attempting to pull a Godwin's law thing here?

Go back and review the thread before making BS accusations.

If so, please note: IT'S NOT MY FAULT, because I didn't mention him. Nor did I ever intend to do so.

You responded to my post regarding Hitler.

So, ecco, if you can find, in any of my posts, where I included Hitler in that list of democidal anti-theistic governments, I personally would like to know where it is, so I can fix it. Good luck with that.

You responded to my post regarding Hitler.



ETA: For your convenience...

Why do you put the emphasis on religion? What I said was they wanted to get rid of any and all opposition. Some dictators, like Hitler, worked with the churches and religions to further his goals.

Yes. And one of those goals was to get rid of religion. I'm not putting the emphasis ON religion. YOU are trying to claim that because there were other goals, that getting rid of religion wasn't one of them.

If you are under the impression that Hitler wanted to end Christianity in Germany, then you are ignorant of the facts or being willfully deceitful.

Did I mention Hitler?



No. I did not.

 

[9-18-1]

Plagiarism mixed with meditation?

If you're looking for plagiarism, look in the books of Moses.

OK

So does this mean that your posts are a mixture of fact and fiction, some jokes intended as bait?

If so, then this whole thread is indeed a farce?

I called it.

Nope - just you.

You mean to tell me that it took you all this and still said nothing of an intelligent

This sentence is error.

I don't know, can you?

Your diagram certainly proves nothing mathematically. In fact, mathematics proves it's just made up nonsense.

You cannot put an equilateral angle with an area of 703 inside three equilateral angles whose areas are each 666.

...who said anything about an equilateral triangle? The equilateral triangle has nothing to do with Genesis 1:1, nor the pic.

Your picture can only represent four triangles of equal dimensions.

No - the three exterior are smaller / not equilateral.

My Friends: Please do not take 9-18-1's posts too seriously. By his own admission he is posting to provoke a response.

Only with you - not with anyone else.

Also, he does not do very thorough research.

Attack attack attack!

I stop when/where needed.

9-18-1 is making assumptions based on a belief that the number 666 is bad.

False claim again - see how you are just projecting your own nature on me? Attack attack attack!

I never 666 is bad. In fact, it also represents:

מיכאל המלאך ומלאך גבריאל ואליהו הנביא
Michael the angel and the angel Gabriel and Elijah the prophet

שמש יהוה
sun of YHVH

תהה עד מי היה יהוה אלהים
He wondered who YHVH Elohim was

the number 666 is not necessarily bad.

Correct.

In fact, the number 666 according to traditional Kabbalah and Jewish Mysticism is not bad. Judaism does not believe in "the beast".

That is good because BELIEF IS NOT A VIRTUE.

Here is an simple example of how authentic Jewish Mystism addresses the number 666.

Per Prof. Zev bar-Lev, Dept. of Linguistics & Oriental Languages in San Diego State University:

"The number 666 has significance as the numerical value of the Hebrew verse: "Ata yigdal na koach Ado-nai -- Now, I pray, let the Power of my Lord be great." (Numbers 14:17). This was Moshe's prayer invoking Divine Mercy on behalf of the Jewish People."

Moshe didn't exist. That is a "belief".

Was Akhunatun = historical.

hyperlink >>> ohr.edu - Six Six Six

It is a number related to healing. Not to the beast. There is nothing wrong with attributing it to "the beast"; but 9-18-1 claims to use this belief as part of proving something.

I only wish to prove one thing: you are trying to accuse me of what YOU are guilty of.

And that is a problem; using belief as evidence for proving something is one thing 9-18-1 is repeatedly trying to discourage.

I asked you to define "belief" and "G-d". I asked nicely.

But you're still mad.

 

[dybmh]

@9-18-1
You're misquoting again... this time you it's ecco... please go back and check your work. Post # 238...

oh dear... I am pretty sure you did say that 666 was bad.. something having to do with sin.

But I'll double check.

 

[dybmh]

@9-18-1,

Yet another false claim.

You said, just few moments ago, "I never said 666 is bad"

I never 666 is bad.

Yes... you did. See below:

And that leaves only yetzer ha tob, because yetzer ha ra is 666 'the mark of the beast'.

You said 666 is the mark of the beast.

And then I brought evidence from a University Professor disputing your claim.

Another example of lack of attention to detail.

It's a pattern.

Flip-flopping, Poor research, false claims, peddled as truth.

And please go fix the misquotes?