The Pharoah of the Exodus was the Hyksos king Apophis.

[Ario]

Many people have surmised that maybe the Hyksos were the Israelites of the Bible. Josephus made this claim, based on the Egyptian Manetho. However this seems to me to be based on a simple mistake, which results in a lot of confusion. The mistake is that the Hyksos were not the Israelites, they were instead the people who enslaved the Israelites. The available archaeological and historical evidence points to the Exodus occuring at the time of the Hyksos, however the idea that the Hyksos were the Israelites doesn't make sense as they were rulers not slaves. Hence a lot of people dismiss the notion that it could have occurred at that time.

Does anyone know of any scholars who have argued for the Hyksos being the Pharaohs of the Exodus?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The available archaeological and historical evidence points to the Exodus occuring at the time of the Hyksos

My understanding is that the archeological evidence says that there was no Egyptian captivity, no Exodus, and no military conquest of Canaan or battle of Jericho as described in the Bible.

EDIT: From Wiki:

"After a century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists[32] the consensus of modern scholars is that the Bible does not give an accurate account of the origins of Israel.[33] There is no indication that the Israelites ever lived in Ancient Egypt, and the Sinai Peninsula shows almost no sign of any occupation for the entire 2nd millennium BCE (even Kadesh-Barnea, where the Israelites are said to have spent 38 years, was uninhabited prior to the establishment of the Israelite monarchy).[34] In contrast to the absence of evidence for the Egyptian captivity and wilderness wanderings, there are ample signs of Israel's evolution within Canaan from native Canaanite roots.[35][36] "

 

[Polymath257]

Many people have surmised that maybe the Hyksos were the Israelites of the Bible. Josephus made this claim, based on the Egyptian Manetho. However this seems to me to be based on a simple mistake, which results in a lot of confusion. The mistake is that the Hyksos were not the Israelites, they were instead the people who enslaved the Israelites. The available archaeological and historical evidence points to the Exodus occuring at the time of the Hyksos, however the idea that the Hyksos were the Israelites doesn't make sense as they were rulers not slaves. Hence a lot of people dismiss the notion that it could have occurred at that time.

Does anyone know of any scholars who have argued for the Hyksos being the Pharaohs of the Exodus?

One difficulty with that hypothesis is that the Hyksos were from Canaan originally, not Egypt. Culturally, they were similar to the Israelites and not the native Egyptians.

The (well, one) idea is that when the Hyksos were kicked out by the actual Egyptians, they made up a story to save face and that eventually became the Exodus story.

But there is NO archeological evidence of the Exodus. There is no reason to think it is anything but an origin myth that was constructed much later with no real connection to history.

 

[Ario]

There is no indication that the Israelites ever lived in Ancient Egypt. "

There’s plenty of evidence that they lived in Egypt, but it dates from c.1800 BC to c.1550 BC.

Hyksos rule is either c.1700 to c.1550 BC, or c.1660 to c.1550 BC.

Around 1550 BC several things happened:

1) the Thera volcanic eruption. This could have caused many of the phenomena described in the Bible.

The Ahmose Stele from c.1550 BC describes a catastrophic storm and darkness, from the perspective of southern Egypt. The Israelites were in the north, at Avaris, which was also the capital of the Hyksos rulers. A later Egyptian text describes pestilence in Avaris at the time of Apophis.

3) the Hyksos pharaoh Apophis died. His son also appears to have died. He was briefly succeeded by Khamudi, who doesn’t appear to have been his son.

4) Hyksos rule in Egypt collapsed and they were driven out by Ahmose I.

5) Avaris was abandoned.

At some point before 1500 BC Jericho was destroyed by an invading army. So much for the claim that there is no evidence for the conquest of Joshua.

The Sinai peninsula was controlled by the Hyksos and Egyptians, so that’s not where the Israelites would have stayed. They would have gone straight through and on into present-day northern Saudi Arabia, which corresponds to the land of Midian. That area also had active volcanoes, which is probably what mount Sinai would have been. Various people have suggested that Jebel al Lawz in northern Saudi Arabia corresponds to the biblical Mount Sinai.

If the Israelites did indeed cross the Red Sea, they would have done so by crossing over the gulf of Aqaba from the Sinai peninsula to Saudi Arabia. However some people argue that they crossed over the ‘Sea of Reeds’, a large lake next to Egypt by the Mediterranean. In that case a tidal wave connected to the Thera eruption is a plausible explanation for the account in Exodus.

The location of Kadesh-Barnea is uncertain. One theory is that it’s Petra, which has evidence of settlement from that time.

 

[sooda]

My understanding is that the archeological evidence says that there was no Egyptian captivity, no Exodus, and no military conquest of Canaan or battle of Jericho as described in the Bible.

EDIT: From Wiki:

"After a century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists[32] the consensus of modern scholars is that the Bible does not give an accurate account of the origins of Israel.[33] There is no indication that the Israelites ever lived in Ancient Egypt, and the Sinai Peninsula shows almost no sign of any occupation for the entire 2nd millennium BCE (even Kadesh-Barnea, where the Israelites are said to have spent 38 years, was uninhabited prior to the establishment of the Israelite monarchy).[34] In contrast to the absence of evidence for the Egyptian captivity and wilderness wanderings, there are ample signs of Israel's evolution within Canaan from native Canaanite roots.[35][36] "

The Hyksos had horses and fast chariots as well as some special sort of bow. The Israelites never had horses.

 

[sooda]

There’s plenty of evidence that they lived in Egypt, but it dates from c.1800 BC to c.1550 BC.

Hyksos rule is either c.1700 to c.1550 BC, or c.1660 to c.1550 BC.

Around 1550 BC several things happened:

1) the Thera volcanic eruption. This could have caused many of the phenomena described in the Bible.

The Ahmose Stele from c.1550 BC describes a catastrophic storm and darkness, from the perspective of southern Egypt. The Israelites were in the north, at Avaris, which was also the capital of the Hyksos rulers. A later Egyptian text describes pestilence in Avaris at the time of Apophis.

3) the Hyksos pharaoh Apophis died. His son also appears to have died. He was briefly succeeded by Khamudi, who doesn’t appear to have been his son.

4) Hyksos rule in Egypt collapsed and they were driven out by Ahmose I.

5) Avaris was abandoned.

At some point before 1500 BC Jericho was destroyed by an invading army. So much for the claim that there is no evidence for the conquest of Joshua.

The Sinai peninsula was controlled by the Hyksos and Egyptians, so that’s not where the Israelites would have stayed. They would have gone straight through and on into present-day northern Saudi Arabia, which corresponds to the land of Midian. That area also had active volcanoes, which is probably what mount Sinai would have been. Various people have suggested that Jebel al Lawz in northern Saudi Arabia corresponds to the biblical Mount Sinai.

If the Israelites did indeed cross the Red Sea, they would have done so by crossing over the gulf of Aqaba from the Sinai peninsula to Saudi Arabia. However some people argue that they crossed over the ‘Sea of Reeds’, a large lake next to Egypt by the Mediterranean. In that case a tidal wave connected to the Thera eruption is a plausible explanation for the account in Exodus.

The location of Kadesh-Barnea is uncertain. One theory is that it’s Petra, which has evidence of settlement from that time.

Jericho was destroyed many time.. maybe as many as 11. . by earthquakes. There no evidence for Joshua and the Hebrews didn't have enough population to have a large army. None of the Canaanite cities were destroyed or abandoned. This is a case of nationalistic bragging and creating a heroic history.

 

[Ario]

The Hyksos had horses and fast chariots as well as some special sort of bow. The Israelites never had horses.

"The Hyksos practised horse burials, and their chief deity, their native storm god, Hadad, they associated with the Egyptian storm and desert god, Set [Seth].[3][7] The Hyksos were a mixed people of mainly Semitic-speaking origin.[3][8] The Hyksos are generally held to have contained Hurrian and Indo-European elements, particularly among the leadership"

Hyksos - Wikipedia

 

[sooda]

"The Hyksos practised horse burials, and their chief deity, their native storm god, Hadad, they associated with the Egyptian storm and desert god, Set [Seth].[3][7] The Hyksos were a mixed people of mainly Semitic-speaking origin.[3][8] The Hyksos are generally held to have contained Hurrian and Indo-European elements, particularly among the leadership"

Hyksos - Wikipedia

Yep.. that's pretty much what I remember. Sometimes called the Shepard Kings.

 

[Ario]

Jericho was destroyed many time.. maybe as many as 11. . by earthquakes. There no evidence for Joshua and the Hebrews didn't have enough population to have a large army. None of the Canaanite cities were destroyed or abandoned. This is a case of nationalistic bragging and creating a heroic history.

"In 1868, Charles Warren identified Tell es-Sultan as the site of Jericho.[4] In 1930–36, John Garstang conducted excavations there and discovered the remains of a network of collapsed walls which he dated to about 1400 BCE. Kathleen Kenyon re-excavated the site over 1952–1958 and demonstrated that the destruction occurred c.1500 BCE during a well-attested Egyptian campaign of that period, and that Jericho had been deserted throughout the mid-late 13th century BCE.[5] Kenyon's work was corroborated in 1995 by radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction level to the late 17th or 16th centuries.[6] "

Battle of Jericho - Wikipedia


"Egyptian campaign" - or invading Israelites who had previously been living in Egypt for a couple of hundred years or more. Jericho destroyed approximately 40 years after the events c.1550 BC I described above.

 

[Ario]

Yep.. that's pretty much what I remember. Sometimes called the Shepard Kings.

'Shepherd kings' appears to be a misunderstanding or mistranslation. The Hyksos ruled over 'the shepherds', i.e. the canaanite (Israelite) shepherds who had settled in the Egyptian Delta prior to the Hyksos invasion. The Hyksos enslaved them. But because the Hyksos were themselves partly 'Asiatic', they get conflated.

 

[sooda]

'Shepherd kings' appears to be a misunderstanding or mistranslation. The Hyksos ruled over 'the shepherds', i.e. the canaanite (Israelite) shepherds who had settled in the Egyptian Delta prior to the Hyksos invasion. The Hyksos enslaved them. But because the Hyksos were themselves partly 'Asiatic', they get conflated.

I agree with you about the Hyksos, but they are too early to have enslaved the Israelites.. or Habiru who were largely unaffiliated Bedouin herders. Bedouin almost always have a symbiotic relationship with a town or oasis where they supply meat and leather in

The Canaanites had established urban settlements that made pottery , worked in Metallurgy and Mining. The copper mines of Timna were theirs not Solomon's .. There were Canaanite towns in Sinai which was Egyptian and they paid tribute to Pharaoh.

 

[gnostic]

Many people have surmised that maybe the Hyksos were the Israelites of the Bible. Josephus made this claim, based on the Egyptian Manetho. However this seems to me to be based on a simple mistake, which results in a lot of confusion. The mistake is that the Hyksos were not the Israelites, they were instead the people who enslaved the Israelites. The available archaeological and historical evidence points to the Exodus occuring at the time of the Hyksos, however the idea that the Hyksos were the Israelites doesn't make sense as they were rulers not slaves. Hence a lot of people dismiss the notion that it could have occurred at that time.

Does anyone know of any scholars who have argued for the Hyksos being the Pharaohs of the Exodus?

The problem with this claim, is that the Hyksos (forming the 15th dynasty in Lower Egypt or northern kingdom) predated the construction of the Exodus Rameses, which was actually historically and archaeologically were built in the 13th century BCE, by Ramesses II, a 19th dynasty pharaoh, and named Pi-Ramesses, which the “House of Ramesses”.

Pi-Ramesses (or the Exodus Rameses) wasn’t built by the Hyksos, and it wasn’t built by Hebrew/Israelite slaves.

Ramesses II was the 3rd king of the 19th dynasty, and his father was Seti, and he was named after his grandfather, the founder of this dynasty, but his reign only last 1 or 2 years in the early 13th century BCE. Ramesses I was a former general of the last ruler of the 18th dynasty, Horemheb. Horemheb, himself was a general for Tutankhamun and Ay, before he succeeded Ay.

Ramses was mentioned twice in exodus, when it was been constructed, Exodus 1, and when the Israelites were departing from Egypt in Exodus 12.

The problem with Exodus it never gave the names of any of the pharaohs, which make it difficult to confirm what it saying.

One thing is certain, no book, document or scroll exist in the Bronze Age which narrated the patriarchs of Genesis and Moses in Exodus. Genesis and Exodus weren’t written until about the time of King Josiah of Judah. A lot of propaganda to promote the monotheism of Judaism, in the 2nd half of the 7th century BCE.

Even if you were convinced that Moses existed in the time of the Hyksos, the real city of Pi-Ramesses didn’t exist after centuries after the Hyksos departure from Egypt.

 

[sooda]

The problem with this claim, is that the Hyksos (forming the 15th dynasty in Lower Egypt or northern kingdom) predated the construction of the Exodus Rameses, which was actually historically and archaeologically were built in the 13th century BCE, by Ramesses II, a 19th dynasty pharaoh, and named Pi-Ramesses, which the “House of Ramesses”.

Pi-Ramesses (or the Exodus Rameses) wasn’t built by the Hyksos, and it wasn’t built by Hebrew/Israelite slaves.

Ramesses II was the 3rd king of the 19th dynasty, and his father was Seti, and he was named after his grandfather, the founder of this dynasty, but his reign only last 1 or 2 years in the early 13th century BCE. Ramesses I was a former general of the last ruler of the 18th dynasty, Horemheb. Horemheb, himself was a general for Tutankhamun and Ay, before he succeeded Ay.

Ramses was mentioned twice in exodus, when it was been constructed, Exodus 1, and when the Israelites were departing from Egypt in Exodus 12.

The problem with Exodus it never gave the names of any of the pharaohs, which make it difficult to confirm what it saying.

One thing is certain, no book, document or scroll exist in the Bronze Age which narrated the patriarchs of Genesis and Moses in Exodus. Genesis and Exodus weren’t written until about the time of King Josiah of Judah. A lot of propaganda to promote the monotheism of Judaism, in the 2nd half of the 7th century BCE.

You know your Egyptian timelines.. Very good.

 

[sooda]

"In 1868, Charles Warren identified Tell es-Sultan as the site of Jericho.[4] In 1930–36, John Garstang conducted excavations there and discovered the remains of a network of collapsed walls which he dated to about 1400 BCE. Kathleen Kenyon re-excavated the site over 1952–1958 and demonstrated that the destruction occurred c.1500 BCE during a well-attested Egyptian campaign of that period, and that Jericho had been deserted throughout the mid-late 13th century BCE.[5] Kenyon's work was corroborated in 1995 by radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction level to the late 17th or 16th centuries.[6] "

Battle of Jericho - Wikipedia


"Egyptian campaign" - or invading Israelites who had previously been living in Egypt for a couple of hundred years or more. Jericho destroyed approximately 40 years after the events c.1550 BC I described above.

I know that you are correct about Jericho having been abandoned a couple of times in its history. The story goes that the Jewish tribes in Arabia were all from Jericho;;

 

[gnostic]

You know your Egyptian timelines.. Very good.

The problem with the Old Testament - particularly the Torah those books that were attributed to Moses - is that that were written from 7th century to the late 6th century or to mid-5th century BCE.

There were no 2nd millennium BCE written scriptures called the “Genesis” and “Exodus” in this time period, the Middle Bronze Age and Late Bronze Age.

For instance, paleo-Hebrew (ancient Hebrew) alphabet didn’t exist until the around the 10th century BCE (eg the Gezer Calendar and the Zayit Stone). These are the earliest literary evidences of Hebrew writings, but it make no mention of anything in regarding to Genesis and Exodus story, no mention of any kings (eg no David and Solomon, no Rehoboam and Jeroboam), that ruled at the time of these inscriptions were written.

Before this was Proto-Canaanite alphabet (12th and 11th century BCE), which paleo-Hebrew alphabet were derived from.

But in much of the 2nd millennium BCE, the most common way of writing (from Canaan and Syria to Babylonia and Elam) were the cuneiform, not the alphabet.

The invention of cuneiform probably originated in the city of Uruk, in which most translations of Genesis 10 referred to as Erech, a city supposed founded by Nimrod, a great grandson of Noah.

The writing is pre-Sumerian cuneiform, or what experts called proto-Sumerian, have been dated to 3500-3400 BCE, where it was found at Uruk IV.

Sumerian proper, started with Jemdet Nasir period (3100 - 2900 BCE). Much of The 4th millennium BCE called this period the “Uruk period”, c 4000 to c 3100 BCE, which coincide with use of both stone and copper tools, Chalcolithic period.

Like Jericho, Uruk was repeatedly built over older layer of the city. And the earliest layer, Uruk XII was built around 5000 BCE, so really the whole Nimrod and the Tower of Babel episodes are clearly false.

But going back to Egypt. There are no evidences to support that Israelites were living as independent and then as slaves in the 2nd millennium BCE, no evidences to support the Hyksos were Israelites or Jews. And there are no evidences to support Joshua conquering Canaan, after Moses’ death.

The Exodus’ Rameses just highlighted another thing wrong with book, contradicting archaeological evidences.

Another error is that of Genesis 10, which also claimed that Egypt didn’t exist until Ham’s son Mizraim or Egypt was born. Egyptian culture predated the 1st dynasty of Egypt. And if the Flood falls some times in the 2nd half of 3rd millennium BCE, then the pyramids of Saqqara and Giza would also predated the Flood, which would make Genesis claim false about Egypt.

 

[Ario]

The problem with this claim, is that the Hyksos (forming the 15th dynasty in Lower Egypt or northern kingdom) predated the construction of the Exodus Rameses, which was actually historically and archaeologically were built in the 13th century BCE, by Ramesses II, a 19th dynasty pharaoh, and named Pi-Ramesses, which the “House of Ramesses”. [...] the real city of Pi-Ramesses didn’t exist after centuries after the Hyksos departure from Egypt.

That's a common mistake. The city of Pi-Ramesses was built directly on top of Avaris. Avaris was founded in the Middle Kingdom and 'Canaanites' started settling there around 1810 BC. Around 1780 BC a modest palace was built there which was occupied by an 'asiatic' (i.e. Semitic) high official, complete with a monumental tomb behind it with a statue of an 'asiatic' man with red hair, wearing a multi-coloured coat. I'm not joking. When the Hyksos invaded around 1700 or 1660 BC they made Avaris their capital. They built massive walls around it and a palace, etc. There's evidence from this time that much of the population under the Hyksos suffered from malnutrition, infection, short life spans (i.e. they were slaves), and very high infant mortality. Again, not joking. At the end of the Hyksos rule the town was abandoned and most of the Hyksos era buildings were destroyed. Pi-Ramesses was then built on the same location. When the Bible refers to Pi-Ramesses it is referring to the correct location, but the actual city of the Bible was buried under the new city.

Living in Egypt, Tell el Dab'a

Avaris: Capital of the Hyksos

 

[Ario]

^ Unfortunately David Rohl can't see the wood for the trees and thinks that the exodus happened before the Hyksos period. This is partly because he wants to fit everything into his nutty 'new chronology' which requires redating everything by hundreds of years. And it also doesn't seem to occur to him that the Hyksos could have been the pharoahs of the Exodus, because, you know, they weren't Egyptian. Similarly the archaeologist Manfred Bietak, who has been excavating Avaris, dismisses the idea that all the asiatics and shepherds he keeps on finding there could have anything to do with the Exodus, because everyone knows that the asiatic Hyksos were rulers and not slaves. Again, it doesn't occur to him that the Israelites could have been enslaved by the Hyksos. I also get the impression that he is very anti the idea of the exodus having any real historical basis, despite the fact that he keeps on digging up evidence which screams EXODUS! right at him. In the video he wears a Palestinian-type headscarf, which might be an indication of his political persuasions. Or maybe he has to keep his mouth shut and play along to ensure that he will be permitted to continue excavating there by the Egyptian authorities. I've also not seen him acknowledge that the Hyksos rulers may have been of Indo-European or Hurrian origin, despite all the Indo-European clues such as horses, horse burials, chariots, novel metalworking techniques etc that he also documents in his report.

 

[Ario]

there are no evidences to support Joshua conquering Canaan, after Moses’ death.

See my earlier comment in response to sooda. According to archaeological dating, Jericho was destroyed by an invading army around 1500 BC. This is around 40 years after the approximate date of the end of the Hyksos period. It fits well with the exodus story if it happened in the Hyksos period. The reason you say ‘there is no evidence’ is because you think the evidence that actually exists is in the wrong time period.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Many people have surmised that maybe the Hyksos were the Israelites of the Bible. Josephus made this claim, based on the Egyptian Manetho. However this seems to me to be based on a simple mistake, which results in a lot of confusion. The mistake is that the Hyksos were not the Israelites, they were instead the people who enslaved the Israelites. The available archaeological and historical evidence points to the Exodus occuring at the time of the Hyksos, however the idea that the Hyksos were the Israelites doesn't make sense as they were rulers not slaves. Hence a lot of people dismiss the notion that it could have occurred at that time.

Does anyone know of any scholars who have argued for the Hyksos being the Pharaohs of the Exodus?

afaik, what the archeological evidence suggests, is that israelites never were massively enslaved in egypt, that no exodus ever took place and that mozes is a fictional character...

That early israelites are actually just lower class caananites that revolted against the caananite elites and the reïnvented their own history and compiled that into the OT.

 

[Ario]

afaik, what the archeological evidence suggests, is that israelites never were massively enslaved in egypt, that no exodus ever took place and that mozes is a fictional character...

That's not really what the archaeological evidence suggests. See my previous comments.