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The Plan of Salvation -- Beginning to End

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I was asked in another thread to explain the Plan of Salvation as understood by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I agreed to do so in a new thread which I have decided to put in the LDS DIR forum. This explanation will be comprised of five separate posts, each of which is fairly lengthy. I have numbered each point so that the Latter-day Saints on the forum will be more easily able to address questions as they arise.

Although I realize that the doctrines of Christianity vary between denominations, I thought it would be useful if I were to post in a red font those beliefs we Latter-day Saints have that are not commonly held by most of traditional Christianity. The beliefs that I see us sharing will be in black.

This thread is obviously not going to appeal to everybody. Its purpose is to give an in-depth explanation of how our beliefs pertaining to salvation differ from those of other Christians. For those who are interested, I hope the thread serves a useful purpose.

I would very much appreciate the input of my fellow members of the Church. If you see anything with which you disagree, please let me know.
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
A1. God the Eternal Father is a glorified, immortal being of flesh and bone. While He has the appearance of a man, His body is perfect and incorruptible.

A2. Co-eternal with God was a form of spirit matter that has been described as “the light of truth.” Latter-day Saint scriptures refer to it as “Intelligences.” It is neither created nor made.

A3. God took this intelligent matter and from it created the spirits of all who would someday dwell on this earth and of some who would not. A spirit is a conscious entity, visible to God, but comprised of such highly refined matter that human eyes cannot see it.

A4. These spirit creations were known to God as His spirit sons and daughters. They knew Him as their Father.

A5. Among them were two who stood out as incomprehensibly superior to the others. Like their Father, they were perfect in every respect. God the Father called His firstborn spirit son “Jehovah.” He would come to be known to billions as Jesus Christ. His other perfect son would be known as the Holy Ghost. Together these three constituted “the Godhead” – three divine beings who were one in will, purpose, mind and heart.

A6. God was the archetypal man, the Man of Holiness. He was the perfect role model and all of His spirit children looked to Him with deep reverence and respect. It was their desire to be like Him in every way.

A7. God called a heavenly council and presented a plan to His spirit children. All were present, and shouted for joy upon hearing the announcement.

A8. The plan became known as “The Plan of Salvation.” God would create a world for them apart from their heavenly home. All who wished to participate would be given the opportunity to come to Earth, to be born to earthly parents and to obtain a mortal body. They would have no memory of their pre-mortal existence.

A9. As part of their mortality, they would be tried and tested. Prophets would be sent to guide them, but they would have to learn to walk in faith and to distinguish between good and evil. This knowledge was essential in order for them to someday become like their Father in Heaven.

A10. There was, however, one caveat. After their time on Earth was finished, they could return to His presence only if they were without sin. He would not look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. Sin would be seen as a debt that could only be forgiven if paid in full by someone who owed no debt Himself.

A11. Jehovah, our elder Brother, stepped forward and said, “Here I am. Send me.” With a love so absolute we could not comprehend it, He offered to take upon Himself the guilt we would incur during our mortality and to pay the price required by the Father for our forgiveness. The price would be His own blood. All of the glory, He insisted, would be the Father’s. He wanted nothing but the privilege of helping His Father to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of mankind.

A12. Our salvation would be contingent upon our recognizing Him as our Savior and doing our best to keep His commandments, repenting as necessary, because we would inevitably sin. Each of us would be given the freedom to choose for ourselves

A12. Another of God’s spirit sons stepped forward at this point. His name was Lucifer. Once known as the “Son of the Morning,” he was full of animosity towards his brother, Jehovah and toward their Father. He offered an alternate plan. His plan took away our agency or the right to choose for ourselves. We would each obtain a mortal body, but the choice to obey or to disobey, and the privilege of learning to discern between good and evil would be taken away from us. Having lived perfect lives, but not by choice, we would all return to God’s presence. The glory would be forever his, not his Father’s.

A13. The Father chose Jehovah to be “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Lucifer, proud and rebellious, turned against his Father and vowed to turn as many of his fellow spirit siblings as possible against Him, too.

A14. A “War in Heaven” ensued. All of God’s spirit children chose sides. Some fought with Lucifer for the right to participate in the plan as he had suggested. Others fought on the side of Jehovah, led by the archangel, Michael.

A15. In the end, Michael and his angels (i.e. all of us who would someday be born) defeated Lucifer and his angels (the remaining third of the host of heaven). Because of their willful rebellion against God, Lucifer and those who had sided with him were cast out of Heaven. They would never again have the privilege of being known as God’s children. They would never receive mortal bodies. And in the end, they would be cast into Outer Darkness forever.

A16. The rest of us (i.e. every human being who ever has been born or will be born) rejoiced, knowing that the Plan was about to commence. Every one of us chose to come to Earth. There are no exceptions.

A17. Under the direction of His Father, and aided by the archangel, Michael, Jehovah created our Earth and the universe in which we live.
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
B1. The first two individuals God sent to His newly created Earth were known as Adam and Eve. (Adam was the same individual known in the pre-mortal existence as Michael.) Adam and Eve were created in the image of God, after His likeness. In other words, they looked like Him. For a period of time, God visited Adam and Eve in the Garden. They walked and talked with Him and continued the relationship they’d known in their pre-mortal existence.

B2. God gave Adam and Eve two commandments: (1) Multiply and replenish the Earth. (2) Do not eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. They were blessed to live in a garden paradise and would be privileged to remain there forever. There would, however, be consequences for disobedience.

B3. Although their bodies were like those of mortal men in their appearance, they were not fully mortal. Their bodies were, at that point, still incorruptible. In other words, they were not subject to death or disease. They had the potential to live forever in the state in which they found themselves in Eden. Likewise, they were incapable of partnering with God to create new life.

B4. Knowing that it was essential that Adam and Eve be given the opportunity to use the free agency He’d given them, God allowed Lucifer (now known as Satan) to tempt them. Coercing them to believe that eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was the only way they could ever become like their Father in Heaven, they succumbed to His argument.

B5. Eve was the first to break the commandment God had given them. Realizing immediately that she had been tricked, she also realized that she did, in fact, have a new insight into the way the world operated. She realized there was opposition in all things, and that it was possibly to understand and appreciate the good only when it could be seen in contrast with the evil.

B6. Eve confessed to Adam what she had done. At first he was shocked and dismayed, but soon came to realize that her disobedience would cause her to be cast out of the Garden. Separated, they would be unable to fulfill the first commandment – multiplying and replenishing the earth. Adam followed Eve in eating the forbidden fruit.

B7. Losing their childlike innocence for the first time, they realized they were naked and tried to hide from God when they next heard His voice. It’s impossible to hide from God, though. When confronted, they admitted their transgression and accepted the consequences for their actions. They were cast out of the Garden and were made to live in the world we now know.

B8. Before sending them into the world, though, God promised them that all was not lost, that He would provide a Savior for them and that if they would agree to be obedient in the future, this Savior would provide a way for them to be forgiven and to return to Heaven someday. Meanwhile, they and all of their posterity would be subject to both physical death (the separation of the spirit from the body) and spiritual death (separation from God).

B9. As Adam and Eve began to bear children, one by one, the spirits of each of God’s offspring left His presence and came to earth to be children of mortal parents. Each of these spirits would come to Earth pure and clean, having inherited the propensity to sin, but guilty of nothing. They would sin only as they reached an age when they were capable of distinguishing good from evil.

B10. God continued to reveal His will to Adam, although they would no longer speak face to face. God gave to Adam the knowledge of His Plan of Salvation. He called him to open the first dispensation (a dispensation being a period of time when the Lord has at least one authorized servant on the earth who bears the holy priesthood and its keys, and who has a divine commission to dispense the gospel to the inhabitants of the earth.

B11. Other prophets would follow. Adam presided over the first dispensation. He was followed by Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses and finally Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was unique among the prophets because he, unlike all of the others, was God’s Only Begotten Son. While each of us is a spirit son or daughter of God, Jesus Christ (formerly known as Jehovah) alone was the physical son of God. They have a true Father-Son relationship, closer than any relationship we can possibly imagine.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
C1. Jesus’ birth was prophesied by several Old Testament prophets, most notably by Isaiah. Prophets in the ancient Americas also prophesied of Him. He was to be the divine Son of the living God, and the promised Savior sent to atone for the sins of Adam and Eve and their posterity.

C2. In the Median of Time, He was born to a young virgin in the small middle-eastern town of Bethlehem. He was raised to manhood by His mother, Mary, and by her husband, a carpenter by the name of Joseph.

C3. At a very early age, Jesus came to realize who He was and what His mission was to be. When He was barely past His childhood, Mary and Joseph found Him in the temple talking to the learned men of His day and astonishing them with His great wisdom.

C4. At the age of 30, Jesus began His earthly ministry. One of the first things He did was to go to His cousin, John, to request baptism. Although perfect and having no need for repentance, Jesus complied with His Father’s request that He receive this ordinance. He was baptized by immersion by one holding the proper authority.

C5. He chose twelve ordinary men, men with no divinity degrees or training and called them to be His Apostles. He called them and, laying His hands on their heads, ordained them to His priesthood, giving them the authority to act in His name and to perform the ordinances God had prescribed.

C6. His gospel included seven ordinances, some of which are essential to exaltation and some of which are not. These are: (1) Baptism, (2) the Laying on of hands for the Gift of the Holy Ghost (i.e. Confirmation), (3) the Confession of sins, (4) the Lord’s Supper (referred to by the Latter-day Saints as “the Sacrament”), (5) Eternal Marriage, (6) Ordination to the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods, and (7) the Anointing of the sick.

C7. He taught for three years, by word and by example. His gospel message was one of peace and love. He healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, made the crippled walk again and even raised His friend from the dead. He lived a perfect life.

C8. He established an organizational Church and structured it according to His perfect knowledge. It was built on an foundation of Prophets and Apostles, with Him as the chief cornerstone. This organization was to remain in place until all of His followers became unified in their faith. He also called and ordained others to various positions of leadership and authority.

C9. After a brief period of just over three years, at the time of the Jewish Passover, public sentiment turned strongly against Jesus. Knowing that His mission here on earth was soon to come to an end, He called His Apostles together and broke bread with them. He told them that the bread they were eating was to represent His flesh, and that the wine they were drinking was symbolic of His blood.

C10. After their meal, Jesus and His Apostles went to the Garden of Gethsemane where He prayed earnestly to His Father that, if there was any other way that His mission might be accomplished, He might be spared the agony that He knew lay ahead of Him. As always, though, He acknowledged that His Father’s will be done.

C11. In Gethsemane, as His Apostles slept, His atoning sacrifice began. It was in Gethsemane where He took upon Himself the sins of all mankind (those who would accept His gift and those who would not). There was an actual exchange of innocence for guilt as He paid the price to remove the debt we had incurred. He met the obligation He had committed to in the Pre-mortal Life.

C12. Following a mock trial, He was subjected to torture and mockery and finally death by crucifixion. He had been betrayed by one of His friends. Another had denied even knowing Him. Even while dying, He not only offered hope to a repentant thief who hung at His side, but asked His Father to forgive His murderers. His sacrifice ended with His death on the cross.

C13. His body was laid in a borrowed tomb where it remained until the morning of the third day. During this period, He visited (in spirit form) the Spirit World, a realm comprised of Paradise (where He’d told the repentant thief He would see Him) and Prison, where the spirits of the wicked awaited their punishment. He taught them His gospel and made true His statement that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. With His visit, He initiated the teaching of His gospel to the dead, to those who had died not knowing of their Savior.

C14. On the Sunday following His death, His friends discovered the tomb where He had been laid to be empty. He had risen! Life had been restored to His body and He showed His Apostles the wounds in His hand, feet and side. He was once again a living man of flesh and bones, although by His resurrection given eternal life. He was no longer mortal but immortal.

C15. He remained with His Apostles for a period of 40 days after His resurrection. There is no record of what He may have taught them during this time. It is possible, though, that it was during this time that He taught them of ordinance work for the dead and other esoteric teachings known to a portion of the early Christian community.

C16. At the end of the 40 days, He ascended to His Father in Heaven but then returned to Earth to visit “His sheep” in the Western Hemisphere. They, too were of the House of Israel, but were of a “different fold.” He spent 40 days among these people, ministering to them and preaching His gospel to them as He had in the Holy Land.

C17. The Apostles continued to direct the Church He had established until their martyrdoms, at which time the Priesthood authority they had held but had not passed on was taken from the Earth. This apostasy would last for nearly seventeen centuries. During this 1700 year period, Christianity would survive, but not in its pure form. Certain doctrines would be corrupted by the philosophies of men and the ordinances performed would have no lasting eternal significance.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
D1. When a person dies, his spirit leaves his body and goes to the Spirit World, an intermediate state between mortality and immortality. The spirit remains conscious, able to learn and grow spiritual and continues to have free agency.

D2. The Spirit World is comprised of two realms – Paradise and Prison. Those who lived righteous lives (regardless of religious affiliation) will find themselves in Paradise, a state of peace and rest. The wicked will be consigned to Prison, a state of mental anguish and despair.

D3. The gospel of Jesus Christ (restored to the Earth through a latter-day prophet, Joseph Smith, will continue to be taught in the Spirit World, to both those in Paradise and to those in Prison. Those in Prison may, through sincere repentance and acceptance of the atoning sacrifice Jesus made for them, be released from Prison to enjoy the peace found in Paradise.

D4. Those who accept the gospel in the Spirit World will have filled the first two requirements for salvation – faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and repentance. As spirit beings, however, they no longer have physical bodies and are therefore unable to participate in the earthly ordinances of baptism, confirmation and eternal marriage which are required for the fullness of salvation.

D5. Meanwhile, on Earth, living members of the restored Church, are gathering the names of their ancestors who died without knowing of the restored gospel or without having received the saving ordinances. Proxy baptisms, confirmations and marriage for eternity are performed by worthy Latter-day Saints in the Church’s temples worldwide.

D6. The spirits in the Spirit World are free to either accept or reject the work done for them by proxy. If they accept it, is it as if they had personally participated in the ordinances while on Earth. If they reject it, the work done will have absolutely no effect whatsoever.

D7. The time will come – we do not know when – when Jesus Christ will return to the Earth to usher in His millennial reign of peace. Certain signs have been given which will precede His coming. Some have already come to pass. Others are yet to take place.

D8. When Christ returns, the righteous living and the righteous dead will be lifted towards Heaven to meet their Savior, while the wicked living will be killed. Peace will reign on Earth for one thousand years. Satan will be bound and there will no sin in the world.

D9. At the beginning of the Millennium, the righteous who were alive at the Savior’s Second Coming and those who were awaiting this event in Paradise will be resurrected and will receive their newly immortal, perfected bodies. This is the First Resurrection.

D10. Millions will live on the now renewed paradisiacal Earth. There will be Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and atheists, just as there are today. Members of Jesus Christ’s restored Church will continue to spread His gospel, and Jesus Christ will acknowledge that this Church is indeed His.

D11. At the end of the Millennium, the wicked too will be physically resurrected. These are the individuals who, though offered the opportunity to repent and accept the forgiveness offered through Christ’s Atonement, refused to do so. Having suffered unspeakable mental anguish and torment for a full one thousand years, they will have paid the price for their own sins. This is the Second Resurrection.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
E1. At last all who have ever lived will stand before God to account for the lives they have led. This is the Final Judgment. Jesus Christ will act as Mediator with the Father on behalf of those who accepted Him as their Savior, either while on Earth or in the Spirit World.

E2. Heaven is a place of many mansions and it is a place where all we be rewarded according to their works. Just as there are varying degrees of righteousness, there are different blessings. Heaven is divided into three “degrees of glory” or heavenly kingdoms, each of which is presided over by a member of the Godhead.

E3. The lowest degree of heavenly glory is known as the Telestial Kingdom. This part of Heaven is reserved for those who were resurrected as part of the Second Resurrection. They are the wicked who, having been given many opportunities to accept the Savior’s gift of complete forgiveness, chose not to. The Telestial Kingdom was said by Paul to have a glory which can be compared to that of the stars, a glory which “surpasses all understanding.”

E4. The next higher degree of glory is called the Terrestrial Kingdom. This kingdom, described by Paul as having a glory like that of the moon, will be inhabited by honorable men and women who were lukewarm in their commitment to Jesus Christ and less valiant in keeping His commandments.

E5. The highest degree of glory is known as the Celestial Kingdom. Paul said that its glory is like that of the sun. The Celestial Kingdom is further divided into three more degrees of glory. The highest of these is reserved for the most faithful and committed of all of God’s children.

E6. Those individuals who, through their faithfulness, attain this degree of glory will have the privilege of being united with their families (generation upon generation) forever. Unlike those who are worthy of a lesser glory, they will also be given the opportunity to progress throughout all of eternity, to ultimately become perfect, even as their Father in Heaven is perfect, to reach the goal set in their Pre-mortal Existence to be like Him. While all who enter Heaven can be said to be "saved," this is the "fulness of salvation,": Exaltation and Life Eternal.

E7. Very, very few of those of God’s children who chose to experience mortality while in the Pre-mortal Existence will not ultimately end up in Heaven. Almost all will be given a measure of His glory and will spend eternity in a such state of splendor the mortal mind can not begin to comprehend.

E8. Satan and those who were cast out of God’s presence at the conclusion of the War in Heaven will spend eternity in Outer Darkness (the LDS term for Hell). They will be joined by only a relative few others, those who chose mortality but committed the one sin for which there is no forgiveness. This sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. It involves having a perfect knowledge of the Son of God and then categorically denying that knowledge. These are known as the Sons of Perdition.
 
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Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I would just like to ask questions as I go down the list.

Question re A5: Do you have a reference for the Holy Ghost being another perfect son? I always liked the possibility that the Holy Ghost might be female. Also, while it makes complete sense to LDS like us, is there any reference for the Holy Ghost being perfect?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I would just like to ask questions as I go down the list.

Question re A5: Do you have a reference for the Holy Ghost being another perfect son? I always liked the possibility that the Holy Ghost might be female. Also, while it makes complete sense to LDS like us, is there any reference for the Holy Ghost being perfect?
Hmmm. I'm trying to think of whether the Holy Ghost is ever referred to in the scriptures by the personal pronoun "He" or "She." I tend to think of the Holy Ghost as being male, but I could be wrong.

As far as the Holy Ghost being perfect, I would say that as part of the Godhead, He (i.e. He, She, or It :)) would have to be perfect. What do you think?
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Hmmm. I'm trying to think of whether the Holy Ghost is ever referred to in the scriptures by the personal pronoun "He" or "She." I tend to think of the Holy Ghost as being male, but I could be wrong.

As far as the Holy Ghost being perfect, I would say that as part of the Godhead, He (i.e. He, She, or It :)) would have to be perfect. What do you think?
In scripture the The Holy Ghost is referred to as "he" and as "my Spirit" and as "the Comforter"

John 14: 26
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 35: 19
Wherefore, watch over him that his faith fail not, and it shall be given by the Comforter, the Holy Ghost, that knoweth all things.

Jesus Christ is speaking here.

Doctrine and Covenants 36: 2
And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon, and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;

Doctrine and Covenants 39: 6
And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom.

He (the Comforter) is the Lord's Spirit extended to man.
 
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Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Hmmm. I'm trying to think of whether the Holy Ghost is ever referred to in the scriptures by the personal pronoun "He" or "She." I tend to think of the Holy Ghost as being male, but I could be wrong.

As far as the Holy Ghost being perfect, I would say that as part of the Godhead, He (i.e. He, She, or It :)) would have to be perfect. What do you think?

I agree. I tend to think of the Holy Ghost as being male, but I always *hope* it might be female. I also agree that the Holy Ghost would have to be perfect to be in the Godhead, I just cant think of a scripture or other reference for that.
 

J Bryson

Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit is often equated with the Hebrew Shekinah, which is considered a feminine aspect of God.
The Spirit of the Lord

The Shekhinah in the New Testament is commonly equated to the presence or indwelling of the Spirit of the Lord (generally referred to as the Holy Spirit, or Spirit of Christ) in the believer, drawing parallels to the presence of God in Solomon's Temple. Furthermore, in the same manner that the Shekhinah is linked to prophecy in Judaism, so it is in Christianity:
For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:21 ASV)
 

FFH

Veteran Member
JBryson said:
(generally referred to as the Holy Spirit, or Spirit of Christ) in the believer,
I agree, the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost), is the Spirit of Christ (Christ's Spirit). Our own LDS scriptures testify of this.

Doctrine and Covenants 36: 2
And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon, and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;
 
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zomg

I aim to misbehave!
RE: gender of the Holy Ghost

"And I said unto him: To know the interpretation thereof—for I spake unto him as a man speaketh; for I beheld that he was in the form of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another." - 1 Nephi 11:11
 
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Scott C.

Just one guy
The Holy Ghost is most definitely a Person separate from the Persons of the Father and the Son. There is also "the Spirit" which at times does not refer to the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit, the Person. "The Spirit" can refer to a power or influence, also "light" or the "Spirit of Christ". Consider D&C 88:

6 He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth;
7 Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.
8 As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made;
9 As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made;
10 And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand.
11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;
12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space—
13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

These versus seem to say that "light of truth" = "light of Christ" = "power of God" = "Spirit of Christ", all of these beings things, not Persons. This is the power that fills the immensity of space and the power by which God created the world. The Holy Ghost uses "the Spirit" to testify of truth. We feel "the Spirit" when we hear truth.

On the other hand, the term "The Spirit" may at times refer to the "Holy Ghost", the Person. It's not always clearly differentiated and probably doesn't matter. But there is a Person called the Holy Ghost and also a power or influence called "the Spirit".

What I just said may be debatable and understood differently by others, but this is the conclusion I have come to.
 
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Hmmm. I'm trying to think of whether the Holy Ghost is ever referred to in the scriptures by the personal pronoun "He" or "She." I tend to think of the Holy Ghost as being male, but I could be wrong.

As far as the Holy Ghost being perfect, I would say that as part of the Godhead, He (i.e. He, She, or It :)) would have to be perfect. What do you think?

Females cannot hold the Priesthood nor can they be part of the Bishopric or First Presidency. The same goes for the Godhead.

That is what I'm thinking.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
ἀλήθεια;1465988 said:
Females cannot hold the Priesthood nor can they be part of the Bishopric or First Presidency. The same goes for the Godhead.

That is what I'm thinking.

Thanks for sharing. I suppose the question is whether the Holy Ghost's role is a Priesthood function or not. if not, then there's no reason (that I can see) why the Holy Ghost cannot be female.

Anyway, I think we've discussed the gender of the Holy Ghost enough. I'm going to go back to Katz's original posts and find another question in them. I encourage all to do the same.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Question regarding C17: The Apostles continued to direct the Church He had established until their martyrdoms, at which time the Priesthood authority they had held but had not passed on was taken from the Earth.

What do LDS make of Catholic? evidence that the Priesthood was indeed passed on? I can't think of any specific examples right now, but I'm sure they exist. Is it the belief that the Priesthood was passed on but never Apostleship (all the keys)?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Question regarding C17: The Apostles continued to direct the Church He had established until their martyrdoms, at which time the Priesthood authority they had held but had not passed on was taken from the Earth.

What do LDS make of Catholic? evidence that the Priesthood was indeed passed on?
I'm unaware of any source that indicates that the Apostolic keys were passed to anyone not mentioned in the Bible. I know that the Roman Catholic belief is that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome and that he passed on the keys to Linus, who is regarded as Peter's successor. Of course, as the Latter-day Saints believe, a Bishop is not the same as an Apostle, and even if Peter were to have ordained Linus to the office of a Bishop, that would not be the same thing as giving him apostolic authority. Besides, I've always found it kind of interesting that Revelation would have been given to John, who was then exiled on the Isle of Patmos. If Linus truly held the authority the Catholic Church believes he had, why wouldn't God have given Him the revelation He gave John. It just seems very odd that He would have bypassed the head of the Church.

Is it the belief that the Priesthood was passed on but never Apostleship (all the keys)?
When I used the phrase "Priesthood authority," I was thinking specifically of the keys of the apostleship. I know that none of our leaders have ever mentioned a specific date at which the Great Apostasy was complete. If all priesthood authority was gone with the death of the last Apostle, it would be relatively easy to pinpoint the date. Since people undoubtedly did hold the priesthood for a period of time after the Apostles deaths, the keys of the offices that were filled would have still been active. Of course, we know that the keys held by the Apostles themselves would have been necessary in order for the Church to function as Christ had intended it to.
 
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