The Planets and other Space phenomena?

[nnmartin]

The order in one body can increase, provided that the amount of disorder in its surroundings increases by a greater amount."

Which is why the solar system has a limited existence in time.

A limited existence in time?

what happens when the disorder becomes too great?

can't just more order be made out of it?

 

[shawn001]

Well, without going into a hardcore physics debate I see it like this:

After the Big Bang there is a great mass of disordered energy expanding outwards from its source.

God does not want this.

So he uses the energy to build things - he keeps the energy in place by doing work such as creating planets and life.

Order is being created from disorder.

"God does not want this."

I really hope your not speaking for god?


"Order is being created from disorder"

You left out it goes back to disorder. The universe has become more disordered in time since the bang.

 

[shawn001]

A limited existence in time?

what happens when the disorder becomes too great?

can't just more order be made out of it?

Our solar system has roughly about 5 billion more years left and then the sun will go red giant, the earth likely burn up.

This creates more dust and gas in space which then adds material to new stars and new planets forming.


"what happens when the disorder becomes too great?"

The End of Everything

 

[apophenia]

God works to help minning corporations? Why didn't god make a bigger earth with more resources on it? Or control the population. Or change what resources we need?

My tongue was firmly in my cheek.

And my remark about scientific curiousity was specifically in relation to the race to Mars, which IMHO is entirely motivated by the desire to exploit resources.

I mentioned O'Neill because his book 'The High Frontier' was illuminating to me. It describes the government-funded think-tank (early 60s to early 70s) which examined how to approach mining mars and the asteroid belt. It also detailed designs for that purpose which were subsequently camouflaged as 'Star Wars" (SDI) to ensure further funding by taking advantage of the Cold War tensions.

 

[apophenia]

...designs for that purpose which were subsequently camouflaged as 'Star Wars" (SDI) to ensure further funding by taking advantage of the Cold War tensions.

apropos to that - once the Cold War was ended (by American and Soviet presidents who were just priorly respective heads of the CIA and KGB), USA and Russia collaborated on building the International Space Station.

Here comes the biggest mining boom of all time ....

'scientific curiousity' has always been subordinate to the military and economic plans of the ruling class, since time immemorial

 

[nnmartin]

The End of Everything

ok, thanks for the link - interesting stuff.

2 more questions:

- what happens to the stuff that goes into the Black Hole?

- why is there a black hole in the first place?

(in layman's terms please, thanks)

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

For those in the Abrahamic faiths, or even those who are not but believe in a creation, I ask you, what do the Planets in our solar system mean to you and what purpose do you think they serve, if any?
The problem, I think, is if any credible explanation is presented, would it be reasonable to apply it to all other solar systems as well, even those still in the making?
Why would a creator make so many other planets, stars, comets, asteroids,black holes, gamma ray bursts and galactic collisions?
Is it just a sideshow for us, or maybe the creator? What do you think?

Thank you.

I just put it down to that laws of nature creating every possible physical combination to create every planet which is physically possible from tiny rocky planets smaller than Mercury, atmospheric planets such as Earth and Venus, giant gas planets such as Jupiter and Saturn to almost brown dwarf stars and everything possible in-between. So we inevitably find ourselves living on one of those physically possible planets. There no need for any conscious creator. Natural happenstance is what created us.

 

[Daviso452]

when matter enters a black hole it either becomes part of it (because a black hole is an incredibly dense source of matter) or gets transported to somwhere else (because space-time breaks down due to the amount of matter).

Black holes originate from dead stars. They use the remainder of their fuel, do a few more things, then collapse upon themselves. Much like how many people think the universe will eventually end up like. When that happens, another big bang shall emerge.

 

[shawn001]

My tongue was firmly in my cheek.

And my remark about scientific curiousity was specifically in relation to the race to Mars, which IMHO is entirely motivated by the desire to exploit resources.

I mentioned O'Neill because his book 'The High Frontier' was illuminating to me. It describes the government-funded think-tank (early 60s to early 70s) which examined how to approach mining mars and the asteroid belt. It also detailed designs for that purpose which were subsequently camouflaged as 'Star Wars" (SDI) to ensure further funding by taking advantage of the Cold War tensions.

"
And my remark about scientific curiousity was specifically in relation to the race to Mars, which IMHO is entirely motivated by the desire to exploit resources."

We exploit resources where ever we go. But I have personally talked to many of the mar mission scientists and that is not the main goal. Life specifically and scientific curiousity drive the mars missions such as water. But composition of the planet is important, even to understand the formation of the solar system. Why did mars lose its atmosphere ect..


The moon has good resources. Specifically helium 3 which makes for a good energy source to power future missions to mars from the moon.


I did not read this book, but at the moment fail to see how the star wars defence system would have anything to do with camouflaging future mars missions or mining the asteroid belt between mars and jupiter. Perhaps military moon bases. But, again have not read that book.

"It also detailed designs for that purpose which were subsequently camouflaged as 'Star Wars" (SDI) to ensure further funding by taking advantage of the Cold War tensions"

 

[shawn001]

apropos to that - once the Cold War was ended (by American and Soviet presidents who were just priorly respective heads of the CIA and KGB), USA and Russia collaborated on building the International Space Station.

Here comes the biggest mining boom of all time ....

'scientific curiousity' has always been subordinate to the military and economic plans of the ruling class, since time immemorial

There are many more countries that collaborated in the space station then America and Russia.

Part of going to the moon was to figure out where the moon came from as it is quite different then moons around other planets. It also had to do with the orgins of the solar system.

I am not in any way saying humans wouldn't mine it, they would.

 

[shawn001]

The US military, the army and air force and strategic space command also has different and seperate space branches that work basically outside of nasa scientific branches.

A lot of this had to do with sputnik and the space race.

 

[Daviso452]

Okay, dude, waaaay too much.

 

[shawn001]

ok, thanks for the link - interesting stuff.

2 more questions:

- what happens to the stuff that goes into the Black Hole?

- why is there a black hole in the first place?

(in layman's terms please, thanks)

Black holes are formed by the collaspe of super massive stars called super novas.

"The gravitational collapse of heavy stars is responsible for the formation of stellar mass black holes."

The gravitational collaspe "puntures" a hole in the fabric of space.

I can go into this futher if you want.

The stars have to be bigger then our sun. Our sun won't turn into a black hole.

"what happens to the stuff that goes into the Black Hole?"

It basically can't escape the inside, including light because the gravity is so strong.
However all information is stored in the event horizon surrounding the black hole.

They will also disapate over time as well. As mention in that end of everythng article.

There are some major cosmologist who think black holes create new universes on the other side of them.

 

[Daviso452]

OH MY GOD I ALREADY EXPLAINED THAT.

But not i so much detail. Roflmao!

 

[shawn001]

OH MY GOD I ALREADY EXPLAINED THAT.

But not i so much detail. Roflmao!

we were posting at the same time, hence why I didn't see your post.

He should know though not just any star goes super nova and forms a black hole, they have to be big enough.

 

[apophenia]

"
And my remark about scientific curiousity was specifically in relation to the race to Mars, which IMHO is entirely motivated by the desire to exploit resources."

We exploit resources where ever we go. But I have personally talked to many of the mar mission scientists and that is not the main goal. Life specifically and scientific curiousity drive the mars missions such as water. But composition of the planet is important, even to understand the formation of the solar system. Why did mars lose its atmosphere ect..


The moon has good resources. Specifically helium 3 which makes for a good energy source to power future missions to mars from the moon.


I did not read this book, but at the moment fail to see how the star wars defence system would have anything to do with camouflaging future mars missions or mining the asteroid belt between mars and jupiter. Perhaps military moon bases. But, again have not read that book.

"It also detailed designs for that purpose which were subsequently camouflaged as 'Star Wars" (SDI) to ensure further funding by taking advantage of the Cold War tensions"

Seriously, check out the history of the O'Neill thinktank. It was funded by Congress, and its purpose was to address the question of finite resources vs growing economies. Post grad engineering students were offered the option of taking part as an alternative to writing a thesis. They were asked to answer the question "Is the surface of the earth the optimum location for a growing industrial society ?" (Or something very close to that, though I think that is pretty accurate).If their answer was no, (the assumed answer) they were to take part in designing technologies to address the problem.

Congress called for results early in the 70s. The book, The High Frontier, summarises the results.

In that book you will find the mass driver, presented later as the 'rail gun' in the Star Wars context, and the use of very large parabolic mirrors to reflect solar energy onto a Tesla turbine to generate electricity - the parabolic mirrors also featured strongly in the SDI thing, just a couple of years after the O'Neill report was tabled. ( The plans were later changed to solar panels as they became more efficient).

You may remember or know that at the time the general concensus in the engineering world was that the Star Wars project was bogus and impractical, but was still rubber stamped and funding provided.

Of note in O'Neill's book is the observation that no government would ever undertake to fund such a project as the industrialisation of space, because it would cost untold billions and never be accepted by the electorate. Whereas, as we know, funding for 'fighting the ruskies' or the 'war on terror' is no problem from a public relations point of view.

So the technology was dressed up to look like war technology, which people are prepared to vote for.

Check out the book. You'll get the picture.


You may well have talked to mars mission scientists and heard what motivates them, but I am talking about what motivates their masters.

 

[shawn001]

Seriously, check out the history of the O'Neill thinktank. It was funded by Congress, and its purpose was to address the question of finite resources vs growing economies. Post grad engineering students were offered the option of taking part as an alternative to writing a thesis. They were asked to answer the question "Is the surface of the earth the optimum location for a growing industrial society ?" (Or something very close to that, though I think that is pretty accurate).If their answer was no, (the assumed answer) they were to take part in designing technologies to address the problem.

Congress called for results early in the 70s. The book, The High Frontier, summarises the results.

In that book you will find the mass driver, presented later as the 'rail gun' in the Star Wars context, and the use of very large parabolic mirrors to reflect solar energy onto a Tesla turbine to generate electricity - the parabolic mirrors also featured strongly in the SDI thing, just a couple of years after the O'Neill report was tabled. ( The plans were later changed to solar panels as they became more efficient).

You may remember or know that at the time the general concensus in the engineering world was that the Star Wars project was bogus and impractical, but was still rubber stamped and funding provided.

Of note in O'Neill's book is the observation that no government would ever undertake to fund such a project as the industrialisation of space, because it would cost untold billions and never be accepted by the electorate. Whereas, as we know, funding for 'fighting the ruskies' or the 'war on terror' is no problem from a public relations point of view.

So the technology was dressed up to look like war technology, which people are prepared to vote for.

Check out the book. You'll get the picture.


You may well have talked to mars mission scientists and heard what motivates them, but I am talking about what motivates their masters.

Perhas not the best source but

"
The High Frontier: Human Colonies in Space is a 1976 book by Gerard K. O'Neill, a road map for what the United States might do in outer space after the Apollo program, the drive to place a man on the Moon. It envisions large manned habitats in the Earth-Moon system, especially near stable Lagrangian points. Three designs are proposed: Island one (a modified Bernal sphere), Island two (a Stanford torus), and Island 3, two O'Neill cylinders. These would be constructed using raw materials from the lunar surface launch into space using a mass driver and from Near-Earth asteroids. The habitats were to spin for simulated gravity and be illuminated and powered by the sun. Solar power satellites were proposed as a possible industry to support the habitats.
The book won the 1977 Phi Beta Kappa Award in Science"

The High Frontier: Human Colonies in Space - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So why did we put the hubble space telescope up and the spitzer telescope and wmap satellite and send the voyager space crafts into space? There are a lot of mission solely driven to find answers to questions in astronomy and cosmology.

A lot of the war space programs are black projects. There not public or need a vote except by military leaders and some congress to get money. They are kept secret for as long as possible.

"You may well have talked to mars mission scientists and heard what motivates them, but I am talking about what motivates their masters"

Its the science missions themselves, like the rovers or the Phoenix missions that show what the motivation is in regards to the missions.

Not that I don't agree with some of what your saying however in the use of space resources, but scientifc curiosity does in fact drive a ton of missions. Including resources to be used in space. Like oxygen water and fuel and things we might be able to use out there.

 

[Daviso452]

I'm gonna hit you.

 

[shawn001]

I'm gonna hit you.

Chill out man, don't read it or follow it, just skip it.

 

[nnmartin]

- thanks for black hole info. Shawn and Daviso

back to the OP:

For those in the Abrahamic faiths, or even those who are not but believe in a creation, I ask you, what do the Planets in our solar system mean to you and what purpose do you think they serve, if any?

I actually see the supereme God of the Universe as a Deistic entity.

I call it The Source / Master of the Universe.

This master creates things for a general function but they don't have a purpose as such.