The positive side of Islam

[.lava]

Be that as it may or may not, there is a huge disparity of opinion because the global social upheavel that seems to be centered around the Islamic faith says different....but that is not the intent of this thread.

yea same global angle is OK with killing of hundreds of Muslim kids but that's not the intent of this thread, right.

Again, that is not the question, what is it that a faithful Islamic female such as yourself focuses on? Surly such devotion in the face of such social tension is founded on more than "I expect to get what I deserve"

there are many commands. speaking the truth of Islam, learning, practicing what i've learned, being honest, being good to people, fighting against vices of ego....etc. these are the first ones that come to my mind. getting what i've deserved is not something one could run away from. what you get from this reality is pretty much depend on what you're giving to it. therefor loving myself is not apart from loving people (and animals and nature)

I am often confused at the intent of those in Islam who skirt around questions about what they believe is right with Islam, often pointing to a few passages from the Qur’an, and then declare stark contradictions of thought in the face of real harm and violence perpetrated in the name of Allah.

Qur'an is the last holy book that's given to humanity. i think it is completely OK to quote verses from Qur'an but doing things that contradict Qur'an at the same time is just strange.

Ok, before you say it, I already know that your stance is that everything is right about Islam, so, how about defining that position with more than a few declarations of personal belief.

what do you mean?

For instance, can you answer me this question, "what are your feelings toward the Islamic man, living with his family in the United States, who recently was in the news for trying to kill his own daughter by running her over with a car because he said she was becoming too western?"

that is murderer. if someone in your family wants to live a different life style and if it is impossible to live together then they should live seperately. people do not own people even if they are close relatives. people would not kill one another because they have Islamic faith. same with Crusaders. those Christians did not kill Muslims and Jews just because they were Christians. labels don't matter. all the crimes are rooted in vices of ego such as rage, hate, anger, revenge...etc.

I am not trying to be argumentative but, given your "All is well with Islam" stance, you certainly must be able to either condemn the actions of this man or you must defend, in some degree, what he tried to do.

excuse me but why should i defend murderer, could you explain please?

How does the Qur’an rectify perfect love, mercy, and peace with this type of violence?

Qur'an commands to purify vices of ego. does not matter what you believe in or what you say what you follow. if you give into vices of ego and follow your ego as if it is your God, you'd do things that against commands.

For the sake of argument, lets say that you deserve all that can be had. What do you know of the blessings you will receive?

what i deserve is not waiting for me in the future. i am already living it.

I will be back tomorrow, My job is taking me away right now.

OK, have a lovely day then.





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[Copernicus]

There is so much debate in this forum centered on what can be construed as the negative side of Islam that I want to change the focus and discuss with the Islamic members here the positive aspects of Islam.

With all due respect, this is a "Religious Debates" forum. I respect your desire to show Islam in a good light, but we are here to debate pros and cons of Islam, not just to present one side of the issue. So this is not the place for a one-sided advertisement of a religious point of view.

Please answer only if you are a practicing Islam or an authority on the Islamic religion. Comments meant to seek clarification are welcome but leave the points of Islam to the Islamic participants.

Again, no disrespect intended, but this kind of limited discussion belongs in the forum devoted to discussion of the Islamic religion. If you are putting it here in order to reach those who criticize Islam in a religious debate forum, and you are trying to limit debate, then you are seeking to proselytize, which is not appropriate in this venue.

 

[Peace]

In one respect it means an end to free will. I don't see that as being especially positive, do you?

I don't see it like that.
You know and for sure that one day you will die, so do you consider death as an end to free will too Paul?

 

[Kenect2]

One positive thing about Islam, in my opinion, is that it rejects critical thinking. That has led to an absence of industry and science in Islamic nations. Without science and industry, they have failed to develop any advanced weapons. Thanks to the rejection of critical thinking in Islam, Islamic nations lose modern wars, which is a very positive thing. Hopefully, they will continue this trend for a few more decades so that they can be completely conquered by the West.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/world/middleeast/04sensors.html

 

[YmirGF]

I don't see it like that.
You know and for sure that one day you will die, so do you consider death as an end to free will too Paul?

No I do not, Peace. Actually, if you are really interested I believe I will have both greater opportunities and capacity to exercise free will without the complications that arise from maintaining a physical presence. We still have that deal, if you think I may have forgotten.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The positive side of Islam? A fascinating study in psychology, sociology, and history.

 

[YmirGF]

The positive side of Islam? A fascinating study in psychology, sociology, and history.

Just so...

 

[Evandr]

[/font]

yea same global angle is OK with killing of hundreds of Muslim kids but that's not the intent of this thread, right.

Your insinuation is correct, only Deity can give life and only Deity has the right to take it outside the God given right to defend life and country.

there are many commands. speaking the truth of Islam, learning, practicing what i've learned, being honest, being good to people, fighting against vices of ego....etc. these are the first ones that come to my mind. getting what i've deserved is not something one could run away from. what you get from this reality is pretty much depend on what you're giving to it. therefor loving myself is not apart from loving people (and animals and nature)

Well said.

Qur'an is the last holy book that's given to humanity. i think it is completely OK to quote verses from Qur'an but doing things that contradict Qur'an at the same time is just strange.

I agree to a point considering I do not hold the Qur'an as a Holy text. There is a lot about the Qur'an that I find downright poetic in its advocacy of peace and harmony. I find it unfortunate that the Qur'an has language in it that far too many use as justification for violence. I find it frusterating to preach the peace of Christianity knowing that there are those in Christianity that abuse and misinterprate scripture in an attempt to justify unholy actions, it would seem that there are many muslims that feel the same frusteration about their misguided Islamic brethern.

Quote by Evander: Ok, before you say it, I already know that your stance is that everything is right about Islam, so, how about defining that position with more than a few declarations of personal belief.

what do you mean?

I wanted you to reconcile the tenants of Islam with the violence perpetraited in its name but you already answered this challenge (previous quotes and the one that follows) by indicating that you believe the intent of such violence is not in keeping with the intent of Islam or the Qur'an.

that is murderer. if someone in your family wants to live a different life style and if it is impossible to live together then they should live seperately. people do not own people even if they are close relatives. people would not kill one another because they have Islamic faith. same with Crusaders. those Christians did not kill Muslims and Jews just because they were Christians. labels don't matter. all the crimes are rooted in vices of ego such as rage, hate, anger, revenge...etc.

On this point we agree

excuse me but why should i defend murderer, could you explain please?

Pardon me for not being clear, I certainly was not asking you to defend a murderer, I was asking if you would or could defend, on any level, the actions of this father toward his daughter. It is obvious that you do not defend this man.

Qur'an commands to purify vices of ego. does not matter what you believe in or what you say what you follow. if you give into vices of ego and follow your ego as if it is your God, you'd do things that against commands.

If you truly believe what you say here, and I certainly have no reason to doubt you, then it would be a far better world to live in if all Islam held the same views with regard to the use of violence. And it is agreed that, when it comes to using violence to get their way, the bygone eras of Christianity still hold the bloody crown of king in that arena. It is far too sad that so many will use the sacred name of God (or Allah) to defend acts of violence.

what i deserve is not waiting for me in the future. i am already living it.

Again, well said, you have my respects.

OK, have a lovely day then.

As should you

 

[Evandr]

With all due respect, this is a "Religious Debates" forum. I respect your desire to show Islam in a good light, but we are here to debate pros and cons of Islam, not just to present one side of the issue. So this is not the place for a one-sided advertisement of a religious point of view.



Again, no disrespect intended, but this kind of limited discussion belongs in the forum devoted to discussion of the Islamic religion. If you are putting it here in order to reach those who criticize Islam in a religious debate forum, and you are trying to limit debate, then you are seeking to proselytize, which is not appropriate in this venue.

There is nothing limited here in actuality only in request. I have been around religious forums for a long time, I even administered one at one time, and I know full well that this thread will turn into a debate. It was my intent to get it started out on as positive a note as possible. There are some real questions about Islam and violence that need responsible discussion before anything can be learned. Starting out with indignant accusations and finger pointing would not entice any of the Muslim community to respond. So far I have not been disappointed.

 

[.lava]

I agree to a point considering I do not hold the Qur'an as a Holy text. There is a lot about the Qur'an that I find downright poetic in its advocacy of peace and harmony. I find it unfortunate that the Qur'an has language in it that far too many use as justification for violence. I find it frusterating to preach the peace of Christianity knowing that there are those in Christianity that abuse and misinterprate scripture in an attempt to justify unholy actions, it would seem that there are many muslims that feel the same frusteration about their misguided Islamic brethern.

there have been thousands of Prophets, they were all messengers of the same Creator. some got killed in terrible ways such as being skinned while still alive, some left alone and all of them were humiliated by majority. those who got killed did have an option to ask help from God yet they did not. Mohammad (pbuh) would not have asked for help either. because all the Prophets would take any kind of pain, any degree of humiliation and any kind of loss for God. they have the highest loyality that we may never reach. Prophet Suleiman (PBUH) spent his life as leader of entire world. he was the richest. on the other hand Mohammad (PBUH) spent his all money for Islam and he died as a poor man. what i am trying to say here is they are all Prophets but each of them lived differently because tey lived in different eras and in different conditions. each did what they should do in the name of God. Mohammad (PBUH) was commanded to fight BACK. there are reasons that we may not know yet. but IMO there is a nessecity in this world for a self defense because people are more violent and as religion is blamed for everything bad thing people turn away from God and instead they play gods on Earth and they fear no after life. world is more violent than ever. yes, in QUr'an there are some verses that appear to be violent. but they are not given for a peaceful world. though you can and anyone can reach some other verses if you truly want to understand. Islam is submission to God. Prophets were submitted to God and therefor they did not beg God to be saved when they were tortured to death. do you know what it means? do you know what kind of heart it takes to practice such a thing? a Muslim should act upon those examples. but, words are easy. i would give you just one verse from Qur'an. i suggest you read it and remember it. then maybe you understand what it means to follow whole of the book.

5:28 If you will stretch forth your hand towards me to slay me, I am not one to stretch forth my hand towards you to slay you surely I fear Allah, the Lord of the worlds...

thank you for your time and being nice





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[Peace]

No I do not, Peace. Actually, if you are really interested I believe I will have both greater opportunities and capacity to exercise free will without the complications that arise from maintaining a physical presence. We still have that deal, if you think I may have forgotten.

I do still remember the deal we had and I will never forget it. I will remind you of it on the day of Judgment Paul incha'Allah, and you will see

 

[YmirGF]

I do still remember the deal we had and I will never forget it. I will remind you of it on the day of Judgment Paul incha'Allah, and you will see

I can hardly wait. To be sure, one of us is in for quite a surprise.

 

[Copernicus]

There is nothing limited here in actuality only in request. I have been around religious forums for a long time, I even administered one at one time, and I know full well that this thread will turn into a debate. It was my intent to get it started out on as positive a note as possible. There are some real questions about Islam and violence that need responsible discussion before anything can be learned. Starting out with indignant accusations and finger pointing would not entice any of the Muslim community to respond. So far I have not been disappointed.

Fair enough. Then I would bring up things about Islam that trouble me in the hope that you can shed a more positive light on them.

1) Is obediance to Sharia law a requirement of Islam in your opinion?
2) Does Sharia law prescribe amputation of limbs as punishment?

To my mind, the answer to (1) should be "no". My understanding of Sharia law is that the answer to (2) is always "yes", but I could be wrong.

To the extent that Sharia law is considered a part of Islam, I see it as inconsistent with international standards of human rights because of some of its prescriptions of punishment. However, I often meet Muslims who seem to feel that Sharia law is a fundamental aspect of the religion and that amputations of limbs should therefore be considered permissible forms of punishment for some crimes. Do these Muslims represent a majority or minority position for practicing Muslims?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Evandr,

The positive side of Islam

what about the negative side?

Love & rgds

 

[white]

I believe, Mr. Gulen, presents the positive side of Islam.

 

[Sahar]

Fair enough. Then I would bring up things about Islam that trouble me in the hope that you can shed a more positive light on them.

1) Is obediance to Sharia law a requirement of Islam in your opinion?
2) Does Sharia law prescribe amputation of limbs as punishment?

To my mind, the answer to (1) should be "no". My understanding of Sharia law is that the answer to (2) is always "yes", but I could be wrong.

To the extent that Sharia law is considered a part of Islam, I see it as inconsistent with international standards of human rights because of some of its prescriptions of punishment. However, I often meet Muslims who seem to feel that Sharia law is a fundamental aspect of the religion and that amputations of limbs should therefore be considered permissible forms of punishment for some crimes. Do these Muslims represent a majority or minority position for practicing Muslims?

What's "Sharia law" in your opinion?

 

[logician]

There is no positive side to evangelical religions.

 

[Hitchey]

It is fascinating how belief in the end of the world, as we know it, can be deemed a positive thing. Personally, I can't imagine anything much more negative.

I second that sentiment!

 

[Ba'al]

I am sure there must be some but I am still looking

I imagine it would be hard without actually picking up a Quran.

 

[Copernicus]

What's "Sharia law" in your opinion?

The information I have is that Sharia law in some countries prescribes amputations. That is the relevant point I was addressing. If this is not true, please inform me. So far, nobody has contradicted that claim.