The Power Of Circular Reasoning

[Trailblazer]

It becomes a bit of an actual duty once one realizes......

Yep.

 

[Trailblazer]

God is not all-knowing and omnipotent in your opinion?

God is all-knowing but that does not mean we cannot CHOOSE to do what God knows we will do.
God could stop us from doing it since God is omnipotent, but God did not give us free will because he planned to stop us from doing what we choose to do.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It becomes a bit of an actual duty once one realizes what the exact boundaries of the self-imposed parameters of Christianity are.

You asked. I am just answering.

As a non christian why do you care how they follow their religion? And if you know the answer to their question. Why not help the to see the light ?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yep.

So that means you know better then them how to be a christian?

 

[Trailblazer]

So that means you know better then them how to be a christian?

NO, not at all.....
I do not know how to be a Christian at all....
Only Christians know how to be Christians.

I do not know how to be a Buddhist either...
Only Buddhists know how to be Buddhists.

 

[Spirit of Light]

NO, not at all.....
I do not know how to be a Christian at all....
Only Christians know how to be Christians.

I do not know how to be a Buddhist either...
Only Buddhists know how to be Buddhists.

That was what i hoped you would answer Sorry if it felt i jumped at you with my comment. it just surprised me the way you phrased you post

Only one who study the teachings deeply can know how to be exmple Christian or Buddhist or Bahaì in my understanding. So i do not understand why someone who have no belief think they know religion at all.

 

[Trailblazer]

That was what i hoped you would answer Sorry if it felt i jumped at you with my comment. it just surprised me the way you phrased you post

No problem... Things often get misconstrued on these forums.

Only one who study the teachings deeply can know how to be exmple Christian or Buddhist or Bahaì in my understanding. So i do not understand why someone who have no belief think they know religion at all.

I fully agree...

 

[Jos]

So, then, you believe that God is merely guessing about what a person would do because that person could choose to do something different? God is not all-knowing and omnipotent in your opinion?

No, God sees what choice the person makes. If the person were to make a different choice, God would see that too. There's actually a doctrine called Molinism which states that God can see all possible futures or circumstances so I guess He would still be omnipotent and all-knowing.

 

[Catholicus]

He didn't deliver it to any of us alive today. And your conjectures about divine messengers of the past are just that. Also, why would God choose to trust his message to human 'spokespeople', knowing that we would screw it up?

What you are proposing is nonsensical. And even foolish. And that's why I don't believe it's in any way accurate.

I think we humans have a spark of the divine within us. And as such, we are occasionally capable of perceiving and even embodying divine wisdom. This is what the story of Jesus' life and death teaches us. If you want to claim this is a "message from God" that's your choice.

Most scientific theories weren't delivered to "any of us alive today." They are true nonetheless.

Human beings don't always screw up.

 

[Catholicus]

Meaningless. Spirituality is merely a supposition that one is "going beyond," it is a subjective feeling, and it is entirely generated by the same organ that generates feelings of anxiety, love and libido. The notion of "above the natural" means nothing.

You are working from the assumptions that:

The human brain is merely mechanical

Human beings are no more than their bodies (brains included)

Nothing exists other than nature

If something isn't humanly observable (directly or with scientific instruments), it doesn't exist.

These are all mere assumptions; and amount to an idolatrous belief in the human brain.

 

[Catholicus]

Which is not evidence for creation by God or for having been ejected from the hind end of a transuniversal rhinoceros.

What it IS evidence for, as much as we are able to see of it, understand it and work backwards, for a Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago, and beyond that...nothing more.

Which merely begs the question - why did the Big Bang happen ?

 

[Catholicus]

I agree, there is no evidence either way.

So, on what criteria, then, do you propose that people believe as you do?

Because Jesus Christ is - as he said - the Light of this dark world.

As true now as when He said it.

Jesus is also the only Hope for us either as individuals or as the human race.

If you know of any other Light or Hope in this world, please let me know !

 

[Catholicus]

This is entirely, 100% God's problem. He created Hell. He didnt have to do that.



Nonsense. Having the power to cure terminal illness, or to prevent it, and not doing so is the height of immorality.


Evidently not, according to the Biblical authors.


That depends. If we can agree on the goal of ethics, science can absolutely help us evaluate actions to assess how ethical they are.


That is a sad commentary. We as humans give things meaning all the time. I don't need a deity to give my life, or the life of anyone I care about, significance.

The only alternatives to Hell are: (1) Letting the evil roam free, destroying everything and everybody; (2) annihilating the evil - thus robbing them of their wish to be eternally evil.

The sadness of this world (e.g. terminal illness) ? : it is a fallen world,as Fallen as ourselves. To chain people to it indefinitely would be the height of cruelty. But God promises that there will one day be "A new Heaven and a new earth [universe]"

Which Biblical authors ? - there is development of religious thought within the Old Testament and from there to the New Testament - it was devout Christians who led the opposition to the slave trade and to slavery itself.

You don't need science to see that violence, dishonesty etc are wrong. And without a religious revelation, ethics is merely human opinion, about which there can never be agreement.

 

[Catholicus]

That doesn't follow. The idea that we make choices that don't pertain directly to our survival or prosperity does not demonstrate that there is a reality beyond the natural world. The fact that I took 17 steps from my car to my front door when I could have taken 16 steps does not demonstrate the existence of God, or heaven, or hell, or anything else supernatural.

No, because no ethical matters - no question of good or evil - were involved; in that particular instance.

But when (for example) you have to choose between being kind and being indifferent, being forgiving and being vengeful ?

In such cases, Good and Evil (which ARE supernatural) are involved.

 

[JJ50]

No, because no ethical matters - no question of good or evil - were involved; in that particular instance.

But when (for example) you have to choose between being kind and being indifferent, being forgiving and being vengeful ?

In such cases, Good and Evil (which ARE supernatural) are involved.

Good and evil are part of human nature what is 'supernatural' about that?

 

[Catholicus]

That is not proof of the existence of god. The gospels were written well after Jesus died, there is no evidence he resurrected.

Matthew's Gospel was written soon after the Resurrection.

And on what grounds do you deny the testimony of the Gospels ?

Purely on your wish not to believe them.

 

[Catholicus]

Good and evil are part of human nature what is 'supernatural' about that?

Well for one thing, our existence in the first place - we are created by nature, but nature didn't create itself - God created it.

Good and evil are supernatural terms - since they have no place in nature.

Our capacity, as individuals, to choose between them is god-like; i.e. above the natural.

 

[JJ50]

Matthew's Gospel was written soon after the Resurrection.

And on what grounds do you deny the testimony of the Gospels ?

Purely on your wish not to believe them.

It was written about 70 years after Jesus died, apparently. The gospel writers created their version of Jesus, most of what is attributed to the guy just isn't in the least bit credible, imo.

 

[JJ50]

Well for one thing, our existence in the first place - we are created by nature, but nature didn't create itself - God created it.

Good and evil are supernatural terms - since they have no place in nature.

Our capacity, as individuals, to choose between them is god-like; i.e. above the natural.

That is your belief, you don't have any evidence to back it up.

 

[Catholicus]

It was written about 70 years after Jesus died, apparently. The gospel writers created their version of Jesus, most of what is attributed to the guy just isn't in the least bit credible, imo.

"Apparently" - every scholar has his or her own opinion on the matter !

What Jesus did isn't credible if He was a mere human being - but is eminently credible if He was also God.

And what makes you think He wasn't ?