The power of forgivness.

[stvdv]

The meaning behind my answer was to say, even those who can not forgive today can be able to forgive when they see that compassion is a good way

That is true, and the other way around is also very much possible. When life is relatively easy one might be able to forgive, but when "real" trouble starts (torture during war or violent rape etc) then the same person might find out that his/her level of forgiveness is not as high as he/she thought.

If someone has a very safe childhood with a good education then it is relatively easy to forgive because the base of the person is solid (first 7 years can make or break a child; many narcissists are known to be `created` before age 4; mostly by emotional or physical abuse). If from age 1 someone is sexually abused it is a totally different story. You can not compare forgiveness between 2 individuals.

2 or 3 weeks ago I met a women who had been raped by her stepfather from very young age (before age 6 if I remember correctly) for many years (2 decades I think). The father invited even other men to have sex with her. They only had to give him 1 bottle of whiskey. So she valued her life worth just `1 bottle of whiskey`. The father even invited the mayor, policeman and other people, who should normally protect us, to have sex with her. So she could not even report it to the police, because they did it also.

This woman could finally forgive them, but that took a very long time. That this women was able to forgive seems to me "a very deep level of forgiveness". Whereas someone who had a relatively easy life, the level of forgiveness seems to be "less deep" to me.

 

[Spirit of Light]

That is true, and the other way around is also very much possible. When life is relatively easy one might be able to forgive, but when "real" trouble starts (torture during war or violent rape etc) then the same person might find out that his/her level of forgiveness is not as high as he/she thought.

If someone has a very safe childhood with a good education then it is relatively easy to forgive because the base of the person is solid (first 7 years can make or break a child; many narcissists are known to be `created` before age 4; mostly by emotional or physical abuse). If from age 1 someone is sexually abused it is a totally different story. You can not compare forgiveness between 2 individuals.

2 or 3 weeks ago I met a women who had been raped by her stepfather from very young age (before age 6 if I remember correctly) for many years (2 decades I think). The father invited even other men to have sex with her. They only had to give him 1 bottle of whiskey. So she valued her life worth just `1 bottle of whiskey`. The father even invited the mayor, policeman and other people, who should normally protect us, to have sex with her. So she could not even report it to the police, because they did it also.

This woman could finally forgive them, but that took a very long time. That this women was able to forgive seems to me "a very deep level of forgiveness". Whereas someone who had a relatively easy life, the level of forgiveness seems to be "less deep" to me.

The way she forgave this men is a really true way of forgiving. They did some of the worsed things one can do to an other human being. And yes it is more easy to forgive the "small" things in life.

I can not say i experienced the same as the woman, but i went thru 12 years of daily bullying at the school when i was a child. And i have forgive every person who did bully me. So maybe it is possible to be strong even one has gone thru something very bad in life.

I think if one can learn something from a situation that is horrible when it happens to us, it must be that since we experienced it, we would never want anyone else to experience it. so we become more focused on love and kindness after we are able to forgive? Does that sound strange?

 

[stvdv]

The way she forgave this men is a really true way of forgiving. They did some of the worsed things one can do to an other human being. And yes it is more easy to forgive the "small" things in life.

I can not say i experienced the same as the woman, but i went thru 12 years of daily bullying at the school when i was a child. And i have forgive every person who did bully me. So maybe it is possible to be strong even one has gone thru something very bad in life.

I think if one can learn something from a situation that is horrible when it happens to us, it must be that since we experienced it, we would never want anyone else to experience it. so we become more focused on love and kindness after we are able to forgive? Does that sound strange?

That does not sound strange to me.
I do see 2 options though: a)trauma leading to compassion + b)trauma leading to non-compassion (narcissism.)

My narcissistic father belittled my feeling always (from age 1), which resulted that I was unable to feel. Took decades to develop my feelings.

I became a pleaser to manage life; now I see that my pleasing was the trick to avoid feeling the emotional pain (triggers from my youth). Others become aggressive (to avoid feeling the emotional pain from upbringing). Because I was a pleaser, when meeting my Master I tried to please Him. But He put the bar so high, that I could not do it. That was His trick to get me to "face my emotions" instead of avoiding them by pleasing.

Once I asked Him "I feel no love", He answered "Love your Feeling" and I thought "I feel horrible" ... oops and suddenly it dawned to me, that I had to "love feeling horrible". That was His treatment to get me back into my feelings. But even then it took at least a decade to start feeling again.

Because my Master never judged me, just showered love, my self worth grew (at least there was 1 person who loved me unconditionally) and I was able to develop compassion for others being in the same situation. I met many people who did not become pleasers, but became narcissistic like their fathers. So they were not able to develop compassion. And others who were pleasers who were not so fortunate to meet someone loving them unconditional. And some could find the power in themselves; some by Christianity or Buddhism or other ways. Buddha was my first love, teaching ahimsa. That felt good, I really loved the "ahimsa view" and this became "my way" to transform my emotions (anger, hate)

Because I really understand how a narcissist became a narcissist, I do feel compassion for them. But I also know it's very hard for them to get out of their vicious circle (because they developed arrogance, which is known to blind a person; thinking they are perfect; so they are naturally not open to change themselves). Knowing this I tend to avoid them, unless they specifically ask me to help them (which they usually never do).

 

[Spirit of Light]

That does not sound strange to me.
I do see 2 options though: a)trauma leading to compassion + b)trauma leading to non-compassion (narcissism.)

My narcissistic father belittled my feeling always (from age 1), which resulted that I was unable to feel. Took decades to develop my feelings.

I became a pleaser to manage life; now I see that my pleasing was the trick to avoid feeling the emotional pain (triggers from my youth). Others become aggressive (to avoid feeling the emotional pain from upbringing). Because I was a pleaser, when meeting my Master I tried to please Him. But He put the bar so high, that I could not do it. That was His trick to get me to "face my emotions" instead of avoiding them by pleasing.

Once I asked Him "I feel no love", He answered "Love your Feeling" and I thought "I feel horrible" ... oops and suddenly it dawned to me, that I had to "love feeling horrible". That was His treatment to get me back into my feelings. But even then it took at least a decade to start feeling again.

Because my Master never judged me, just showered love, my self worth grew (at least there was 1 person who loved me unconditionally) and I was able to develop compassion for others being in the same situation. I met many people who did not become pleasers, but became narcissistic like their fathers. So they were not able to develop compassion. And others who were pleasers who were not so fortunate to meet someone loving them unconditional. And some could find the power in themselves; some by Christianity or Buddhism or other ways. Buddha was my first love, teaching ahimsa. That felt good, I really loved the "ahimsa view" and this became "my way" to transform my emotions (anger, hate)

Because I really understand how a narcissist became a narcissist, I do feel compassion for them. But I also know it's very hard for them to get out of their vicious circle (because they developed arrogance, which is known to blind a person; thinking they are perfect; so they are naturally not open to change themselves). Knowing this I tend to avoid them, unless they specifically ask me to help them (which they usually never do).

The wisdom you carry within is deeper then many people can realise. You have taken something negative and even it take time, you were able to turn it and become someone who have compassion within. That is a gift you have.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom

 

[Spartan]

To forgive someone means to let go of it, and be able to live in the present moment, and not dwelling in something that happend in the past.

But it does not seems like human beings are able to forgive anymore? Why is this so in your understanding?

Unless people forgive others, God will not forgive their sins (Matthew 6:14-15).

Here's an excellent read on the Power of Grace and Forgiveness:

Excepts:

"Failure to forgive others imprisons us in an unpleasant memory from our past and keeps us from achieving our potential for constructive change. Unforgiveness is often just revenge waiting to happen. And the one major flaw with revenge is that it never seems to settle the score. It sets off a chain reaction of vengeance that never ends, and it’s like an escalator that no one ever gets off. Ghandi once said, “If everyone followed the ‘eye for an eye’ principle of revenge, eventually the whole world would go blind.” There will never be any escape from hatred, war, or misery unless our hearts are changed and we learn to forgive and show mercy to others. So forgiveness is a release from the prison of bitterness that people build for themselves. Man has built many prisons in his day, but this is one that he can surely do without."

"And I think God’s love and mercy are the reasons we cannot look to the government and other institutions for the answers to our problems. As Phillip Yancey noted, the government can arrest and punish KKK murderers, but it cannot cure their hatred, much less teach them how to love. It can pass laws making divorce more difficult but it cannot show husbands and wives how to love each other. It can give welfare to the poor, but cannot show the rich how to shower them with mercy and compassion. It can ban adultery but not lust, theft but not covetousness. And it can encourage virtue but cannot bestow holiness or character. Only God can do those things."

The Power of Grace and Forgiveness